First post ....


KG5HEJ@...
 

which is apt to land me in trouble.  I'm currently a Roots Magic 7 (RM) user with no intention to migrate up to RM8 so I'm looking for alternatives.

While I see many things that make Family Historian (FH) 'interesting' a virtual automatic creation of citations from supplied information, (this is directed mostly to the US members) I find RM's use of place names and place name correction very advantageous. Is 'Plessis' located in Jefferson or St Lawrence county of New York State.  As I start typing Plessis, RM automatically fills in previous uses of the name allowing me to select the location I want to use. 
Also, and probably more importantly, RM know the 'history' of the countries / states / counties over time.   If I were to enter West Virginia before 1864, I believe, RM knows that WV didn't exist at that time and suggests a correction.
I think, in sum, the question here is doe FH have a Places table similar to that found in RM?
If this has been asked innumerable times, kick me to the appropriate spot for an answer.
//al


Adrian Bruce
 

No, it doesn't have access to a pre-populated Places Table. It uses Place Records but the initial values are those that you create yourself - or convert from another file. Once you have that list, then FH has access to geocoding services that can assign latitude and longitude.

When you have entered a place (with or without coordinates) then any subsequent use will prompt you with the possible previous full name once you start typing a similar name.

I have no idea how good RM's place table and dates for places are. I only know that I have used standardised place-names in FamilySearch FamilyTree and I end up tearing my hair out over the nature of some of the so-called standardised place-names. My fear is that anyone with a pre-populated place table is at the mercy of people with poor knowledge and often a regard for political point scoring instead of accuracy. Sorry to anyone who's been satisfied with importing pre-populated place data, but...

Adrian


On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 at 16:20, <KG5HEJ@...> wrote:
which is apt to land me in trouble.  I'm currently a Roots Magic 7 (RM) user with no intention to migrate up to RM8 so I'm looking for alternatives.

While I see many things that make Family Historian (FH) 'interesting' a virtual automatic creation of citations from supplied information, (this is directed mostly to the US members) I find RM's use of place names and place name correction very advantageous. Is 'Plessis' located in Jefferson or St Lawrence county of New York State.  As I start typing Plessis, RM automatically fills in previous uses of the name allowing me to select the location I want to use. 
Also, and probably more importantly, RM know the 'history' of the countries / states / counties over time.   If I were to enter West Virginia before 1864, I believe, RM knows that WV didn't exist at that time and suggests a correction.
I think, in sum, the question here is doe FH have a Places table similar to that found in RM?
If this has been asked innumerable times, kick me to the appropriate spot for an answer.
//al


Vyger
 

Hi Al,

I was a very active RM user since FO days (late 90s) until 18 months ago when the Community Preview for RM8 began. I had access to the program 6 months prior to that date as a beta tester so I believe I understand where you are.

The Gazetteer in Rootsmagic 7/8 is an out of date standalone reference which I believe is of LDS origin, the online LDS reference is now much more detailed.

You refer to County Check knowing historical place history, this feature and many others are still missing from RM8. This is also not a Rootsmagic creation but a third party Bolton and I believe the current problems are making it Mac compatible.

FH facilitates searching within the Place/Map window and then geocoding by dragging the place to the point on the map, something I wished for in Rootsmagic for more than 10 years. RM8 still separates Place and Map views.

FH has other options like the ability to block geocoding the middle of a country so not appearing on maps.

FH has a Timeline slider, after marking the desired groups/families you can drag the slider through time and see migrations over time.

FH does NOT facilitate geocoding of Place Details (address) this is a big negative for me and I still maintain my valuable geographic reference database in RM7.

You may have seen some of my recent videos but I compare various options in the one below.


FH has a lot of power but can easily be used on a basic level and much quicker requiring less clicks than RM.

RM scrapped and deleted the wealth of back knowledge contained in their forums, FH is supported by the FHUG where there are many knowledgeable people ready to help.

Making a new home for your precious research is never easy so do plenty of research. With the exception of Place Details geocoding I don't miss RM but everyone has different needs.

Jackson

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022, 16:20 , <KG5HEJ@...> wrote:
which is apt to land me in trouble.  I'm currently a Roots Magic 7 (RM) user with no intention to migrate up to RM8 so I'm looking for alternatives.

While I see many things that make Family Historian (FH) 'interesting' a virtual automatic creation of citations from supplied information, (this is directed mostly to the US members) I find RM's use of place names and place name correction very advantageous. Is 'Plessis' located in Jefferson or St Lawrence county of New York State.  As I start typing Plessis, RM automatically fills in previous uses of the name allowing me to select the location I want to use. 
Also, and probably more importantly, RM know the 'history' of the countries / states / counties over time.   If I were to enter West Virginia before 1864, I believe, RM knows that WV didn't exist at that time and suggests a correction.
I think, in sum, the question here is doe FH have a Places table similar to that found in RM?
If this has been asked innumerable times, kick me to the appropriate spot for an answer.
//al


Adrian Bruce
 

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 at 21:24, Vyger <vyger88@...> wrote:
... The Gazetteer in Rootsmagic 7/8 is an out of date standalone reference which I believe is of LDS origin, the online LDS reference is now much more detailed. ...

Ah - now you've named it, thanks, I've just investigated and it's a part that isn't available in the free RootsMagic Essentials. Possibly fortunately for my blood pressure...

Adrian
 


unkatat@...
 

I found it interesting that the names of places, towns and countries , that I was taught using a wall map at school only exist on that map. When you actually go to those latitude longitude coordinates the people who live there use different names. The names your ancestors would have used needs a bit of research. Cologne, Germany for example doesn't exist (except on a geography classroom wall map).   


Adrian Bruce
 

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 08:36, <unkatat@...> wrote:
... Cologne, Germany for example doesn't exist (except on a geography classroom wall map).   

I'd beg to differ. Cologne is the English name for, the translation of, Köln. As such it has a perfectly legitimate existence off of the map - people in England trading with Köln wouldn't refer to it by that name.

It's also a perfectly sensible question to ask whether you want to use the English language to record place names or the local language, and people can make decisions either way. Personally, given that most of my events relating to Germany (say) are things like holidays or wars, it would feel ostentatious to insist on writing "Deutschland". However, if, like someone I once knew, your father came from Germany while your mother was English, it would seem perfectly sensible to honour your German ancestry by using the German names for the relevant places - starting with Deutschland! Of course, translations would be useful in that case to stop English people thinking that Bayern referred to a football club instead of Bavaria.

One aspect where I'd use German terminology, even with the translated English names, is with the types of jurisdiction - I have "Friesland Landkreis" and don't translate it to "Friesland County" because the translation of jurisdiction names can be a bit arbitrary, especially since the mapping is seldom *quite* exact.

Adrian


Sue Herrington
 

Wholeheartedly agree Adrian. 

Sue

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022, 12:16 Adrian Bruce, <abruce6155@...> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 08:36, <unkatat@...> wrote:
... Cologne, Germany for example doesn't exist (except on a geography classroom wall map).   

I'd beg to differ. Cologne is the English name for, the translation of, Köln. As such it has a perfectly legitimate existence off of the map - people in England trading with Köln wouldn't refer to it by that name.

It's also a perfectly sensible question to ask whether you want to use the English language to record place names or the local language, and people can make decisions either way. Personally, given that most of my events relating to Germany (say) are things like holidays or wars, it would feel ostentatious to insist on writing "Deutschland". However, if, like someone I once knew, your father came from Germany while your mother was English, it would seem perfectly sensible to honour your German ancestry by using the German names for the relevant places - starting with Deutschland! Of course, translations would be useful in that case to stop English people thinking that Bayern referred to a football club instead of Bavaria.

One aspect where I'd use German terminology, even with the translated English names, is with the types of jurisdiction - I have "Friesland Landkreis" and don't translate it to "Friesland County" because the translation of jurisdiction names can be a bit arbitrary, especially since the mapping is seldom *quite* exact.

Adrian


Vyger
 

“One aspect where I'd use German terminology, even with the translated English names, is with the types of jurisdiction - I have "Friesland Landkreis" and don't translate it to "Friesland County" because the translation of jurisdiction names can be a bit arbitrary, especially since the mapping is seldom *quite* exact.”

 

I do the same in respect of non UK country jurisdictions and regions with the exception of Ireland.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sue Herrington
Sent: 22 June 2022 13:45
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] First post ....

 

Wholeheartedly agree Adrian. 

 

Sue

 

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022, 12:16 Adrian Bruce, <abruce6155@...> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 08:36, <unkatat@...> wrote:

... Cologne, Germany for example doesn't exist (except on a geography classroom wall map).   

 

I'd beg to differ. Cologne is the English name for, the translation of, Köln. As such it has a perfectly legitimate existence off of the map - people in England trading with Köln wouldn't refer to it by that name.

 

It's also a perfectly sensible question to ask whether you want to use the English language to record place names or the local language, and people can make decisions either way. Personally, given that most of my events relating to Germany (say) are things like holidays or wars, it would feel ostentatious to insist on writing "Deutschland". However, if, like someone I once knew, your father came from Germany while your mother was English, it would seem perfectly sensible to honour your German ancestry by using the German names for the relevant places - starting with Deutschland! Of course, translations would be useful in that case to stop English people thinking that Bayern referred to a football club instead of Bavaria.

 

One aspect where I'd use German terminology, even with the translated English names, is with the types of jurisdiction - I have "Friesland Landkreis" and don't translate it to "Friesland County" because the translation of jurisdiction names can be a bit arbitrary, especially since the mapping is seldom *quite* exact.

 

Adrian

 


unkatat@...
 

If your ancestors name was Herr Arnold Schumacher you wouldn't translate it to Mr Arnold Shoemaker so why "translate" the town and country of perhaps his birth.  Practically every nation refers to one of the Scandinavian countries as "Finland" except the people who live there. They call it  "Soumi". Finland is not an English translation of Soumi. 
Imagine if every country respected the endonyms instead of us imposing made up names that only exist out side of those countries. Maps are available. I have one . It's very educational.      


Chris
 

The demonym "Finland" appears on Finnish stamps etc. not to make life easier for English-speakers, but to acknowledge the 10% or so of the Finnish population whose first language is Swedish 


Adrian Bruce
 


Imagine if every country respected the endonyms instead of us imposing made up names

Names like "Germany" have been around for centuries and are no more made up than any name in any language is made up. The tricky part with "Germany" - or "Deutschland" - is knowing when to use it and just what it means at any given point in time and that's nothing to do with the language.

It doesn't seem sensible if, by using an endonym from a language that I know nothing of, I create confusion. For instance, should I be using "Bhārata" instead of "India"? That's hardly meaningful to my relatives. Or should it be "Hindustān"? Or another name from the other languages of the "Subcontinent"? And is one of those names liable to upset people from what is now Pakistan or BanglaDesh? I'd rather be neutral and use the English term.

If the world turns against exonyms, then I'm happy to follow the language, but it has to be that way round - the prescriptive approach doesn't work, which is why we still have split infinitives.

Adrian