Family Shared Residence


David Hodgson-Brown
 

Hi

 

I am very new to family historian and can’t find out how to add a shared family residence for husband and wife sourced from a UK census.

 

My other software is RootsMagic and in that I can just add a shared residence.

 

All the data I have imported from RM via GEDCOM has copied over, so I get for example Sources for ‘Marr. (John): Residence*’.  For new residences I try to add it seems to be an individual fact only.

 

What don’t I understand about shared facts?

 

The help doesn’t help much.

 

Regards

 

David Hodgson-Brown

 


Mike Tate
 

Welcome to FH David.

 

Unfortunately, FH V7 has overlooked implementing the shared Family Residence fact.
There is a bug report submitted by mostly other RM migrants awaiting fixing.

What you will find is an Unrecognised Data Field (UDF) with tag * _RESI that is shown on the All tab of the Family record.

 

However, FH users tend to avoid shared Family facts except those that specifically apply to the couple such as Engagement, Marriage & Divorce.

The explanation is that typically other household members are involved such as children or grandparents and the Family facts do not include those.

So usually we use Individual standard Census and Residence facts for every person in the household.

Such facts are tied together by the same Source Citation.

That tactic is well supported by other FH tools such as the Census Report, the Ancestral Sources program, and various Plugins.

 

Another popular tactic is to have one Individual Census or Residence fact for the head of household and shared Fact Witnesses for all the others.

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 19 January 2021 21:42
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Hi

 

I am very new to family historian and can’t find out how to add a shared family residence for husband and wife sourced from a UK census.

 

My other software is RootsMagic and in that I can just add a shared residence.

 

All the data I have imported from RM via GEDCOM has copied over, so I get for example Sources for ‘Marr. (John): Residence*’.  For new residences I try to add it seems to be an individual fact only.

 

What don’t I understand about shared facts?

 

The help doesn’t help much.

 

Regards

 

David Hodgson-Brown

 


Debbie Kennett
 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 20 January 2021 11:00
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Welcome to FH David.

 

Unfortunately, FH V7 has overlooked implementing the shared Family Residence fact.
There is a bug report submitted by mostly other RM migrants awaiting fixing.

What you will find is an Unrecognised Data Field (UDF) with tag * _RESI that is shown on the All tab of the Family record.

 

However, FH users tend to avoid shared Family facts except those that specifically apply to the couple such as Engagement, Marriage & Divorce.

The explanation is that typically other household members are involved such as children or grandparents and the Family facts do not include those.

So usually we use Individual standard Census and Residence facts for every person in the household.

Such facts are tied together by the same Source Citation.

That tactic is well supported by other FH tools such as the Census Report, the Ancestral Sources program, and various Plugins.

 

Another popular tactic is to have one Individual Census or Residence fact for the head of household and shared Fact Witnesses for all the others.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 19 January 2021 21:42
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Hi

 

I am very new to family historian and can’t find out how to add a shared family residence for husband and wife sourced from a UK census.

 

My other software is RootsMagic and in that I can just add a shared residence.

 

All the data I have imported from RM via GEDCOM has copied over, so I get for example Sources for ‘Marr. (John): Residence*’.  For new residences I try to add it seems to be an individual fact only.

 

What don’t I understand about shared facts?

 

The help doesn’t help much.

 

Regards

 

David Hodgson-Brown

 


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Debbie Kennett
 

That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Edward Sneithe
 

I looked at the help file for FH7 and see this: "Family Records are created automatically for you, when they are needed. If necessary, they are deleted automatically too. They are used to store relationship information for spouses and families, and also to record other data that applies to families - such as events like marriage and divorce. Because they are created automatically when needed, and deleted when no longer needed, there isn't usually much need to be aware of the existence of Family records."

I have created several facts that instead of a family record I created individual records and share them with all that are involved. A census (fam) creates a couple but I still need to add any other household members. Also the resulting sentences were not exactly what I wanted.

What is the actual and practical difference between a family record and an individual record that  I have shared? Do I need to reconsider my approach?

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 7:55:42 AM EST, Debbie Kennett <debbiekennett@...> wrote:


That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Debbie Kennett
 

I include the details of all the other family members in family census records in the notes so that I can control the wording. I do it in a narrative format. If you have individual census entries for each person then the reports will generate sentences for every single child in the household so you get the same text repeated for all the individuals many different times.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Edward Sneithe via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:07
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I looked at the help file for FH7 and see this: "Family Records are created automatically for you, when they are needed. If necessary, they are deleted automatically too. They are used to store relationship information for spouses and families, and also to record other data that applies to families - such as events like marriage and divorce. Because they are created automatically when needed, and deleted when no longer needed, there isn't usually much need to be aware of the existence of Family records."

 

I have created several facts that instead of a family record I created individual records and share them with all that are involved. A census (fam) creates a couple but I still need to add any other household members. Also the resulting sentences were not exactly what I wanted.

 

What is the actual and practical difference between a family record and an individual record that  I have shared? Do I need to reconsider my approach?

 

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 7:55:42 AM EST, Debbie Kennett <debbiekennett@...> wrote:

 

 

That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Jackie Baker
 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Mike Tate
 

Hi,

You are all discussing much the same concepts but there are a few misunderstandings.

 

In FH a ‘record’ has a very specific meaning that is derived from the GEDCOM specification and may be different from other products.

Every person in your Project database has one Individual ‘record’.

Couples that have a relationship such as Marriage have one Family ‘record’, and that is what the FH quote from Edward is referring to.

 

There are other types of ‘record’ for Source, Media, Places, etc, and have a dedicated tab in the Records Window.

 

What Edward is calling a ‘record’ is actually a ‘fact’ (Event or Attribute).

So when capturing a Census return you typically add a Census Event ‘fact’ to an Individual ‘record’ and cite a Source ‘record’ that may identify a Media ‘record’ with an image of the Census page.

What has also been mentioned is adding a Census (family) Event ‘fact’ to a Family ‘record’ for the couple, but that is not recommended.

 

One tactic is to give every member of the Census household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

That means every person gets the same treatment for every Census whether they are a child, adult, married, single, or whatever…

In Reports, each Census Event is listed without mention of the other household members.

 

Another tactic is to only give the head of household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

The other household members have a shared Fact Witness entry that links them to that one Census Event ‘fact’.

In Narrative Reports in particular, it is possible to mention all the members with the head of household.

It is not too repetitive, because those other members are simply mentioned in a list saying they were co-resident or whatever wording you choose.

So it might say: “John SMITH appeared in the Census of 1861 in Glasgow. Jane SMITH, Jack SMITH and Jim SMITH were co-resident.”

 

This tactic will now work for the FH V7 Census Report as all reports can now include Fact Witnesses.

But it does not currently work for the ‘Lookup Missing Census Facts’ plugin that requires one Census Event per person.

 

It is feasible to use both tactics simultaneously.

 

I hope that clarifies various details.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Edward Sneithe
 

Thank you Mike,

That explains it well. Several years ago I played with the idea of putting the census in for every person but I didn't like the prospects of making a possible change to a census fact because I may have to change many individual census facts. With my fingers that may lead to mistakes being made.

I'm glad that my approach will continue to work.

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 11:14:31 AM EST, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:


Hi,

You are all discussing much the same concepts but there are a few misunderstandings.

 

In FH a ‘record’ has a very specific meaning that is derived from the GEDCOM specification and may be different from other products.

Every person in your Project database has one Individual ‘record’.

Couples that have a relationship such as Marriage have one Family ‘record’, and that is what the FH quote from Edward is referring to.

 

There are other types of ‘record’ for Source, Media, Places, etc, and have a dedicated tab in the Records Window.

 

What Edward is calling a ‘record’ is actually a ‘fact’ (Event or Attribute).

So when capturing a Census return you typically add a Census Event ‘fact’ to an Individual ‘record’ and cite a Source ‘record’ that may identify a Media ‘record’ with an image of the Census page.

What has also been mentioned is adding a Census (family) Event ‘fact’ to a Family ‘record’ for the couple, but that is not recommended.

 

One tactic is to give every member of the Census household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

That means every person gets the same treatment for every Census whether they are a child, adult, married, single, or whatever…

In Reports, each Census Event is listed without mention of the other household members.

 

Another tactic is to only give the head of household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

The other household members have a shared Fact Witness entry that links them to that one Census Event ‘fact’.

In Narrative Reports in particular, it is possible to mention all the members with the head of household.

It is not too repetitive, because those other members are simply mentioned in a list saying they were co-resident or whatever wording you choose.

So it might say: “John SMITH appeared in the Census of 1861 in Glasgow. Jane SMITH, Jack SMITH and Jim SMITH were co-resident.”

 

This tactic will now work for the FH V7 Census Report as all reports can now include Fact Witnesses.

But it does not currently work for the ‘Lookup Missing Census Facts’ plugin that requires one Census Event per person.

 

It is feasible to use both tactics simultaneously.

 

I hope that clarifies various details.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Jackie Baker
 

Thanks Mike. I like being able to say resided with.....  but currently have individual facts.  I am aware of problems with transferring witnessed records and can live with that. If I want to use both tactics simultaneously as you mentioned, would I just make the individual event private? But does that work with the Lookup missing facts plugin? Thanks for any advice. I'll play around with it too.

Jackie


Mike Tate
 

Edward, it sounds like you are not using all the tools provided.

 

Once you have added a Census fact for one person in the household along with the Source Citation, use the Copy & Paste Fact buttons to replicate it for every other member of the household, and just adjust the Age entry if you record that. Then you won’t get those ‘finger’ mistakes.

 

Another tactic is to use the free companion program Ancestral Sources that captures the whole Census page and creates all the identical Census facts for you. It offers similar features for most BMD event documents.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Edward Sneithe via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 16:28
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Thank you Mike,

 

That explains it well. Several years ago I played with the idea of putting the census in for every person but I didn't like the prospects of making a possible change to a census fact because I may have to change many individual census facts. With my fingers that may lead to mistakes being made.

 

I'm glad that my approach will continue to work.

 

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 11:14:31 AM EST, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi,

You are all discussing much the same concepts but there are a few misunderstandings.

 

In FH a ‘record’ has a very specific meaning that is derived from the GEDCOM specification and may be different from other products.

Every person in your Project database has one Individual ‘record’.

Couples that have a relationship such as Marriage have one Family ‘record’, and that is what the FH quote from Edward is referring to.

 

There are other types of ‘record’ for Source, Media, Places, etc, and have a dedicated tab in the Records Window.

 

What Edward is calling a ‘record’ is actually a ‘fact’ (Event or Attribute).

So when capturing a Census return you typically add a Census Event ‘fact’ to an Individual ‘record’ and cite a Source ‘record’ that may identify a Media ‘record’ with an image of the Census page.

What has also been mentioned is adding a Census (family) Event ‘fact’ to a Family ‘record’ for the couple, but that is not recommended.

 

One tactic is to give every member of the Census household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

That means every person gets the same treatment for every Census whether they are a child, adult, married, single, or whatever…

In Reports, each Census Event is listed without mention of the other household members.

 

Another tactic is to only give the head of household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

The other household members have a shared Fact Witness entry that links them to that one Census Event ‘fact’.

In Narrative Reports in particular, it is possible to mention all the members with the head of household.

It is not too repetitive, because those other members are simply mentioned in a list saying they were co-resident or whatever wording you choose.

So it might say: “John SMITH appeared in the Census of 1861 in Glasgow. Jane SMITH, Jack SMITH and Jim SMITH were co-resident.”

 

This tactic will now work for the FH V7 Census Report as all reports can now include Fact Witnesses.

But it does not currently work for the ‘Lookup Missing Census Facts’ plugin that requires one Census Event per person.

 

It is feasible to use both tactics simultaneously.

 

I hope that clarifies various details.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Mike Tate
 

Jackie, if you use both tactics simultaneously it would be better to make the Resident ~ Witness Sentence Template {blank} for the Census Event.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 16:54
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Thanks Mike. I like being able to say resided with.....  but currently have individual facts.  I am aware of problems with transferring witnessed records and can live with that. If I want to use both tactics simultaneously as you mentioned, would I just make the individual event private? But does that work with the Lookup missing facts plugin? Thanks for any advice. I'll play around with it too.

Jackie


waltonnz
 

I can be corrected if I'm wrong about this. I've been using FH for a long time but don't have the expertise of some of the other group members. To enter 
Census records I now use Ancestral Sources which records a residence for each member on the census. However, before becoming familiar with AS, I created a shared residence fact and it seemed to work well. I've just installed FH7 and I see my created fact is still there. It has a red dot instead of a blue dot and the format is {date} {couple} resided in {address} {_place}. {note}. I love FH so much as it is so adaptable.
Patricia

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 21:30, David Hodgson-Brown <dave@...> wrote:

Hi

 

I am very new to family historian and can’t find out how to add a shared family residence for husband and wife sourced from a UK census.

 

My other software is RootsMagic and in that I can just add a shared residence.

 

All the data I have imported from RM via GEDCOM has copied over, so I get for example Sources for ‘Marr. (John): Residence*’.  For new residences I try to add it seems to be an individual fact only.

 

What don’t I understand about shared facts?

 

The help doesn’t help much.

 

Regards

 

David Hodgson-Brown

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Mike Tate
 

FH v6.2 is compliant with GEDCOM 5.5 which does NOT specify a Family standard Residence fact, so FH v6.2 has no such fact.

Patricia created a Family custom Residence fact for herself, which is perfectly legitimate and has been inherited by FH v7 when she upgraded.

 

FH v7.0 is compliant with GEDCOM 5.5.1 which does specify a Family standard Residence fact, but FH v7.0 has mistakenly omitted that fact.

Users who import GEDCOM from other GEDCOM 5.5.1 products such as RootsMagic notice that Family standard Residence fact is missing.

When the omission is fixed, Patricia can use the Change Any Fact Tag plugin to convert her custom Residence facts to standard Residence facts.

Likewise, RootsMagic migrants can convert their imported _RESI UDF to standard Residence facts.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of waltonnz
Sent: 20 January 2021 20:41
To: Family Historian <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I can be corrected if I'm wrong about this. I've been using FH for a long time but don't have the expertise of some of the other group members. To enter 
Census records I now use Ancestral Sources which records a residence for each member on the census. However, before becoming familiar with AS, I created a shared residence fact and it seemed to work well. I've just installed FH7 and I see my created fact is still there. It has a red dot instead of a blue dot and the format is {date} {couple} resided in {address} {_place}. {note}. I love FH so much as it is so adaptable.

Patricia