Estimated Date in Range


Brian Horridge
 

Hi

Can anyone tell me if FH (or Gedcom) can handle estimated dates in a Date Range.

The background is that I am recording when certain children were enrolled in a school.  I know the exact date of registration and, for most, I know when they left.  However, there are some where I know when they started but not when they left.

I would like to record it (for example) as "between 1 January 1940 and (est) 1942".  I can enter that as a Date Phrase but FH puts inverted commas around it so I guess the dates are not extracted in the normal way.

It's not a major issue but I'm curious if it can be done.

Many thanks

Brian


Mike Tate
 

Brian,

You can always determine what is valid by using the Date Entry Assistant.

i.e. Click on the […] button to the right of any Date field.

There you will discover that a Qualifier such as Estimated can only be applied to a simple Date and not Period or Range dates.

 

The fact that the first date is exact and the second date is just a year suggests it must be uncertain.

Any further clarification would need to go in the Source Citation or Notes.

 

Mike Tate

 


Wal Mills
 

Perhaps you could use the date range: from 1 Jan 1940 to 1941/43, or similar

Wal


Adrian Bruce
 

I did suggest a change to optionally remove the quotes when printing a Date Phrase in a narrative report but nothing has come of it yet. The quotes need to be on the GEDCOM file but I find it difficult to think of any circumstances when you'd want to see the quotes in a narrative. 

Mike Tate did come up with a construction for v7 (which is why I've not tried it) to remove the quotes - this was an expression to check if the Date Type was a phrase, and then, if it was, used MidText to pull out the text from column 2 to column last but one. (If it isn't a Phrase, just use the date "as is") 

The above is from my notes so I may have missed a bit.


Mike Tate
 

Wal,

That would only work for adjacent years and is not strictly valid as it should only apply where double-dates are allowed prior to 1752, and even then only for dates between 1 January and 24 March.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Wal Mills
Sent: 20 May 2021 12:57
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Estimated Date in Range

 

Perhaps you could use the date range: from 1 Jan 1940 to 1941/43, or similar

Wal


Lorna Craig
 

That Wish List request originally dates from August 2006, so don't hold your breath!   However, back in 2006 it was not possible to modify the narrative sentence in the Property box, and we can do that now.  I have managed to get rid of most of my date phrases but in the few remaining cases I simply edit the sentence in the individual's Property box.

Lorna

On 20/05/2021 13:46, Adrian Bruce wrote:
I did suggest a change to optionally remove the quotes when printing a Date Phrase in a narrative report but nothing has come of it yet.


Adrian Bruce
 

On Thu, May 20, 2021, 14:27 Lorna Craig via groups.io <l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:
...  I have
managed to get rid of most of my date phrases but in the few remaining
cases I simply edit the sentence in the individual's Property box.

And given the workload in applying Mike's proposal to a significant number of sentences "just in case" they ever use a Date Phrase, it probably makes sense to write a fixed value into the edited sentence. You just have to watch it if you ever update the date.


Mike Tate
 

Yes, that is essentially correct, but regardless of how it is displayed, a Date Phrase will not sort the fact into chronological order in FH or any other product you export to unless the Sort Date (_SDATE) extension is supported, which is a new feature in FH v7 and in a few other products. That affects not just the Facts tab but also many Reports.

In FH v6 you could use the Order Facts by Sort Date plugin but that still does not improve the Facts tab order.

What you really need is GEDCOM V7 that was briefly exposed earlier and then vanished.

 

Mike Tate

 


Adrian Bruce
 

Good point about Sort Date - I'll have to bear that in mind because I know that there are a few occasions when I've twisted the dates a little bit to get them sorted correctly in v6. Finding such previously twisted dates is another matter!

GEDCOM v7 eh? Alas, we hardly knew you! 


Brian Horridge
 

Mike

I did try the Date Entry Assistant but was not sure if "est" was not supported or if it was and I had simply missed the relevant setting in the different tabs.  At least now I know I had not overlooked it.

I wanted an estimated date as I knew roughly when they left the school but not the exact date.  I've just put in the year now.

Thanks

Brian


On 20/05/2021 11:46, Mike Tate wrote:

Brian,

You can always determine what is valid by using the Date Entry Assistant.

i.e. Click on the […] button to the right of any Date field.

There you will discover that a Qualifier such as Estimated can only be applied to a simple Date and not Period or Range dates.

 

The fact that the first date is exact and the second date is just a year suggests it must be uncertain.

Any further clarification would need to go in the Source Citation or Notes.

 

Mike Tate

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Robert
 

Brian,

You could go to gov.co.uk for 

School term and holiday dates

so if you know the year then that will give you the date at end of term.




On Thursday, May 20, 2021, 16:22, Brian Horridge via groups.io <brian.horridge@...> wrote:

Mike

I did try the Date Entry Assistant but was not sure if "est" was not supported or if it was and I had simply missed the relevant setting in the different tabs.  At least now I know I had not overlooked it.

I wanted an estimated date as I knew roughly when they left the school but not the exact date.  I've just put in the year now.

Thanks

Brian


On 20/05/2021 11:46, Mike Tate wrote:

Brian,

You can always determine what is valid by using the Date Entry Assistant.

i.e. Click on the […] button to the right of any Date field.

There you will discover that a Qualifier such as Estimated can only be applied to a simple Date and not Period or Range dates.

 

The fact that the first date is exact and the second date is just a year suggests it must be uncertain.

Any further clarification would need to go in the Source Citation or Notes.

 

Mike Tate

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Victor Markham
 

Instead of using est use app meaning approx it will become c. Let's say 1900 app this will automatically become c1900
Victor

On 20 May 2021, at 16:22, "Brian Horridge via groups.io" <btinternet.com@groups.io target=_blank>brian.horridge=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike

I did try the Date Entry Assistant but was not sure if "est" was not supported or if it was and I had simply missed the relevant setting in the different tabs.  At least now I know I had not overlooked it.

I wanted an estimated date as I knew roughly when they left the school but not the exact date.  I've just put in the year now.

Thanks

Brian


On 20/05/2021 11:46, Mike Tate wrote:

Brian,

You can always determine what is valid by using the Date Entry Assistant.

i.e. Click on the […] button to the right of any Date field.

There you will discover that a Qualifier such as Estimated can only be applied to a simple Date and not Period or Range dates.

 

The fact that the first date is exact and the second date is just a year suggests it must be uncertain.

Any further clarification would need to go in the Source Citation or Notes.

 

Mike Tate

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Mike Tate
 

Victor,

As I said in an earlier reply, no Qualifiers are allowed in Period or Range dates.

So that excludes Approx as well as Estimated and Calculated.

 


Brian Horridge
 

That's not going to help much as the particular school was a Church of England school (not local authority) and, even though there were specifics term, a lot of the pupils left when they were 13 or 14 to get jobs (this was in the 1920s to 1940s).

Brian


On 20/05/2021 16:40, Robert via groups.io wrote:
Brian,

You could go to gov.co.uk for 

School term and holiday dates

so if you know the year then that will give you the date at end of term.




On Thursday, May 20, 2021, 16:22, Brian Horridge via groups.io <brian.horridge@...> wrote:

Mike

I did try the Date Entry Assistant but was not sure if "est" was not supported or if it was and I had simply missed the relevant setting in the different tabs.  At least now I know I had not overlooked it.

I wanted an estimated date as I knew roughly when they left the school but not the exact date.  I've just put in the year now.

Thanks

Brian


On 20/05/2021 11:46, Mike Tate wrote:

Brian,

You can always determine what is valid by using the Date Entry Assistant.

i.e. Click on the […] button to the right of any Date field.

There you will discover that a Qualifier such as Estimated can only be applied to a simple Date and not Period or Range dates.

 

The fact that the first date is exact and the second date is just a year suggests it must be uncertain.

Any further clarification would need to go in the Source Citation or Notes.

 

Mike Tate

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com