"Citation Specific Details" Box


Miriam Smith
 

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


Mike Tate
 

Hi Min,

You are not the first to have that problem when switching from FH v6 to FH v7.

However, once you get used to the new technique most find it better than in FH v6.

 

As you say, the initial yellow Citation List pane now only lists the Source Citations but no Citation specific details.

You must click its Edit Source Citation button lower left to open the floating yellow Citation window.

 

That Citation window shows both the Source record and the Citation-specific details together, which is often more convenient than having to switch to the Source record as was necessary in FH v6. Also, that floating Citation window can be left open (just like the Fact Witnesses window) so next time you select a Source the details appear without needing an extra click.

 

What some users do is adjust the size and position of that Citation window so it sits over the unused part of the yellow Citation List pane where the Citation specific details used to appear in FH v6.

 

Others use Tools > Preferences > Property Box and change the Preferred Position for Citation List Pane to Open in New Window.

Then that can float outside the main FH window and be reduced in size to avoid the unused white expanse.

The floating Citation window can be adjusted to sit just below the Citation List Pane window.

 

You then have a setup that is very similar to FH v6 but the Citation window now lists not just Citation-specific details but all the Source record details too.

If you don’t like the Text From Source and Notes on a separate tab then they can be customised to appear on the front Citation tab.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mim Smith
Sent: 30 May 2021 08:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


BillH
 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


Debbie Kennett
 

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 17:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.

 


BillH
 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 17:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.

 



Debbie Kennett
 

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie


BillH
 

Debbie,

No.  When opening Family Historian it isn't open until I select a field that does have a citation.  What I do is click on the field and then click on the yellow scroll icon in the property box.  This opens the citation list pane.  I then select a citation and click on the icon with the yellow scroll and pencil at the bottom of the citation list pane which opens the citation window.  Sometimes one or both will disappear when I do different things in FH, but I can always get them back by doing one of both of these things.  I just like this layout rather than having the citation window floating over the focus window or property box which obscures too much for my taste.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 03:35 PM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie



Miriam Smith
 

First - many thanks to BillH for his instructions as they were brilliant.  Mike - I have got the "Source Citations" box with the info that i want it to contain but i can't make it small enough to fit in the blank space without losing the important info that i like to see. I don't like it floating as it just gets in the way of the main data.  There is info there i don't really want to see - such as the Source Record ID and how many times it has been used, and also the bit that is grayed out at the bottom.  I know the one which i have screendumped only has 1 citation, but I have some facts which have half a dozen.  Previously it was a doddle to ensure that the most important source was at the top of the list and that was easy to see when clicking through the list.  In the meantime, I've moved it across to that space area and closed it, so that i only have to double click it to open it, but then I still have to close it afterwards as it gets in the way.  Many thanks for the help, Miriam


Mike Tate
 

Regarding keeping the Source Citation windows (and any other windows) open from FH session to session see the FHUG Wish List.

That has a request for such a feature that if you sign-in to FHUG you can Vote for:

https://www.fhug.org.uk/wishlist/wldisplay.php?wlwlref=534

Ref 534 Preserve all Workspace and Window Characteristics

 

Mike Tate

 


Mike Tate
 

Miriam,

I suggest you try Bill’s layout with both the yellow Source Citation windows floating outside the main FH window on the right.

Your screenshot shows that you have not yet adopted that layout as per his instructions.

See https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000#p113270

That allows the full height of the screen to be used for those two floating windows without hiding any toolbars, etc.

As you can see from Bill’s screenshot, his layout shows a lot more than you need.

 

With that arrangement, as soon as you select a fact, the first Source Citation listed will display all its details.

 

Mike Tate

 


Debbie Kennett
 

Thanks Bill. If you have the citation box docked to the right or below the property box then it does automatically open but that means you can’t resize the citation box and you’re left with a huge blank space now that text from source has been moved to a different submenu which is only accessible via an extra click. Your layout is much better but what is needed is the ability to retain the layout when FH is closed. I see Mike has mentioned that there is wish list item for this facility so I’ve added my vote to the list.

 

Debbie

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:53
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

No.  When opening Family Historian it isn't open until I select a field that does have a citation.  What I do is click on the field and then click on the yellow scroll icon in the property box.  This opens the citation list pane.  I then select a citation and click on the icon with the yellow scroll and pencil at the bottom of the citation list pane which opens the citation window.  Sometimes one or both will disappear when I do different things in FH, but I can always get them back by doing one of both of these things.  I just like this layout rather than having the citation window floating over the focus window or property box which obscures too much for my taste.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 03:35 PM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie


Mike Tate
 

Debbie,

If you don’t want to click the Text from Source tab to get to the Text from Source fields they can be added to the front tab via the cog menu Customise Citation Window… where Text from Source and Citation Details: Text from Source are predefined items.

 


BillH
 

Debbie,

That is exactly why I have it floating rather than docked, so that it can be resized to make it shorter and then the citation window can be placed under it so as not to obscure anything.

My layout is retained when FH is closed (by that I mean the sizes and locations are remembered).  The only thing is that the citation list pane and citation window do not appear until you select a fact and click on the icon to show the citation window.

Bill

On May 31 2021, at 04:15 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. If you have the citation box docked to the right or below the property box then it does automatically open but that means you can’t resize the citation box and you’re left with a huge blank space now that text from source has been moved to a different submenu which is only accessible via an extra click. Your layout is much better but what is needed is the ability to retain the layout when FH is closed. I see Mike has mentioned that there is wish list item for this facility so I’ve added my vote to the list.

 

Debbie

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:53
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

No.  When opening Family Historian it isn't open until I select a field that does have a citation.  What I do is click on the field and then click on the yellow scroll icon in the property box.  This opens the citation list pane.  I then select a citation and click on the icon with the yellow scroll and pencil at the bottom of the citation list pane which opens the citation window.  Sometimes one or both will disappear when I do different things in FH, but I can always get them back by doing one of both of these things.  I just like this layout rather than having the citation window floating over the focus window or property box which obscures too much for my taste.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 03:35 PM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie



Debbie Kennett
 

Thanks Bill. That is indeed a big advantage of having a floating box for the citation window as there is otherwise a lot of wasted screen space.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 31 May 2021 16:41
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

That is exactly why I have it floating rather than docked, so that it can be resized to make it shorter and then the citation window can be placed under it so as not to obscure anything.

My layout is retained when FH is closed (by that I mean the sizes and locations are remembered).  The only thing is that the citation list pane and citation window do not appear until you select a fact and click on the icon to show the citation window.

Bill

On May 31 2021, at 04:15 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. If you have the citation box docked to the right or below the property box then it does automatically open but that means you can’t resize the citation box and you’re left with a huge blank space now that text from source has been moved to a different submenu which is only accessible via an extra click. Your layout is much better but what is needed is the ability to retain the layout when FH is closed. I see Mike has mentioned that there is wish list item for this facility so I’ve added my vote to the list.

 

Debbie

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:53
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

No.  When opening Family Historian it isn't open until I select a field that does have a citation.  What I do is click on the field and then click on the yellow scroll icon in the property box.  This opens the citation list pane.  I then select a citation and click on the icon with the yellow scroll and pencil at the bottom of the citation list pane which opens the citation window.  Sometimes one or both will disappear when I do different things in FH, but I can always get them back by doing one of both of these things.  I just like this layout rather than having the citation window floating over the focus window or property box which obscures too much for my taste.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 03:35 PM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie

 


Debbie Kennett
 

Thanks Mike. I’ve already got Citation Details: Text from Source on the first tab so I’ve almost been able to replicate how I was working with sources before, albeit now with a few extra mouse clicks.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 31 May 2021 12:59
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

If you don’t want to click the Text from Source tab to get to the Text from Source fields they can be added to the front tab via the cog menu Customise Citation Window… where Text from Source and Citation Details: Text from Source are predefined items.

 


Miriam Smith
 

Thanks Mike, I finally managed to work out how to float the Source and Citation boxes.  But whenever I did anything with the Citation box,the Source box magically re-attached itself to the Property Box and I had to go through the whole rigmarole again.  It is sort of working, but the Citation box is still fairly long compared to FH V6 and i have to push the top up under the Source Box so i can see the bits that are important.  As Bill said, these two boxes have to be opened each time FH is used.  I also have to move the Citation box into the correct spot as it doesn't appear to go there automatically, whereas the Source box does.  However, I'll see how I get on when adding data.  Thanks everyone for your help.  Miriam


Mike Tate
 

I don’t understand why the Sources For (Citation List Pane) window would re-attach itself to the Property Box.

Open the Tools > Preferences > Property Box tab and check that both ‘Preferred Position for Citation List Pane’ options are set to ‘Open in New Window’.

 

Assuming you usually only have two or three Source Citations then make the Sources For (Citation List Pane) window shorter.

i.e. Drag its bottom edge upwards so it does not overlap the Citation window.

There is not much you can do to the Citation window if you want all those Citation-specific fields displayed.

 

Before you close FH, make sure both those windows are open, positioned & sized the way you want them.

Then when FH is reopened, and those windows are opened, they should retain their position & size.

 

BTW: You don’t seem to have Voted for Wish List Ref 534 Preserve all Workspace and Window Characteristics

https://www.fhug.org.uk/wishlist/wldisplay.php?wlwlref=534

 

Mike Tate

 


BillH
 

Mike,

Miriam may be talking about the same problem I've noticed. 

If I get the windows the way I like and then use the "Customize Source Window..." option and make any change to the source window (add a field or delete a field), then the citation list pane gets "re-attached" to the property box and actually overlays part of the property box (see image at https://i.imgur.com/3BdxvNj.png).

Bill


On Jun 02 2021, at 02:30 AM Mike Tate wrote:

I don’t understand why the Sources For (Citation List Pane) window would re-attach itself to the Property Box.

Open the Tools > Preferences > Property Box tab and check that both ‘Preferred Position for Citation List Pane’ options are set to ‘Open in New Window’.

 

Assuming you usually only have two or three Source Citations then make the Sources For (Citation List Pane) window shorter.

i.e. Drag its bottom edge upwards so it does not overlap the Citation window.

There is not much you can do to the Citation window if you want all those Citation-specific fields displayed.

 

Before you close FH, make sure both those windows are open, positioned & sized the way you want them.

Then when FH is reopened, and those windows are opened, they should retain their position & size.

 

BTW: You don’t seem to have Voted for Wish List Ref 534 Preserve all Workspace and Window Characteristics

https://www.fhug.org.uk/wishlist/wldisplay.php?wlwlref=534

 

Mike Tate

 



Mike Tate
 

Bill,

Yes, I have repeated those symptoms, so please can you report them to CP.

 

BTW: The yellow Show Sources button is also inhibited.

 

It does not actually overlay the Property Box but shrinks its width to fit all three panes into the FH main window.

Drag the vertical separator right and the Property Box expands and the Sources For pane shrinks.

 

Mike


BillH
 

Mike,

I just discovered that if I use the Customize Property Box... option in the property box, the same thing happens.

I have opened a ticket with Calico Pie.

Bill

On Jun 02 2021, at 09:38 AM Mike Tate wrote:

Bill,

Yes, I have repeated those symptoms, so please can you report them to CP.

 

BTW: The yellow Show Sources button is also inhibited.

 

It does not actually overlay the Property Box but shrinks its width to fit all three panes into the FH main window.

Drag the vertical separator right and the Property Box expands and the Sources For pane shrinks.

 

Mike