Associated Person, Alias Person
As it says in the GEDCOM specification:
ALIAS ~ An indicator to link different record descriptions of a person who may be the same person.
ASSO ~ An indicator to link friends, neighbors, relatives, or associates of an individual.
Neither are particularly well supported in most products including FH.
As it says in the GEDCOM specification:
ALIAS ~ An indicator to link different record descriptions of a person who may be the same person.
ASSO ~ An indicator to link friends, neighbors, relatives, or associates of an individual.
Neither are particularly well supported in most products including FH.
On Mar 17, 2023, at 3:02 PM, Beverly Smallwood <bevsmallwood@...> wrote:Thanks Mike - I've installed your Assoc tab https://fhug.org.uk/kb/download/associated-persons-3/I'd like to add one or two Alias links to this but am having trouble figuring it out.This seems to work for the link:INDI.ALIA[1]but is there an associated note that goes with it as there is for Assoc?I think I might just use Assoc. for Alias as well.On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:15 PM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:As it says in the GEDCOM specification:
ALIAS ~ An indicator to link different record descriptions of a person who may be the same person.
ASSO ~ An indicator to link friends, neighbors, relatives, or associates of an individual.
Neither are particularly well supported in most products including FH.
Would not Alias be alternative spellings of the name and Associate be a family member or friend at an event?MalcolmOn Mar 17, 2023, at 3:02 PM, Beverly Smallwood <bevsmallwood@...> wrote:Thanks Mike - I've installed your Assoc tab https://fhug.org.uk/kb/download/associated-persons-3/I'd like to add one or two Alias links to this but am having trouble figuring it out.This seems to work for the link:INDI.ALIA[1]but is there an associated note that goes with it as there is for Assoc?I think I might just use Assoc. for Alias as well.On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:15 PM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:As it says in the GEDCOM specification:
ALIAS ~ An indicator to link different record descriptions of a person who may be the same person.
ASSO ~ An indicator to link friends, neighbors, relatives, or associates of an individual.
Neither are particularly well supported in most products including FH.
Given the GEDCOM specification Mike listed, I should be using ALIAS to link these men.I'm startled by that interpretation although I recognise that GEDCOM is variously understood and there can be 'legal' constructs that few programs recognise and support. Without the dogged digging into the specs, I asked ChatGPT and it was very clear about ALIA being used for alternate names for the same person with a slight twist in the definition between GEDCOM 5.5 and 7.0. So it recommends two individuals with the possible sameness mentioned in their research notes (RESN) or in the individuals' Notes. Then goes on:
If you want to link the two George Smiths together in some way, you could use the ASSO (Association) tag to indicate that there is a connection between them, such as a possible familial relationship. However, you would need to be careful to ensure that the association is clearly labeled as uncertain or speculative, and you should only use this tag if there is at least some evidence to support the possibility of a connection.Of course, should you wish to transmit your data to some other system, there is the question whether it supports the ASSO tag.
Questions often arise about points of interpretation of various
Gedom specifications. Sometimes all that becomes clear is that
the spec is genuinely open to different interpretations. I don't
think consulting ChatGPT helps - unless you decide to treat it as
the final arbiter in any dispute. (In which case we could just
close down this list and the FHUG forums and refer everyone to
ChatGPT !)
On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Beverly Smallwood wrote:
Given the GEDCOM specification Mike listed, I should be using ALIAS to link these men.I'm startled by that interpretation although I recognise that GEDCOM is variously understood and there can be 'legal' constructs that few programs recognise and support. Without the dogged digging into the specs, I asked ChatGPT and it was very clear about ALIA being used for alternate names for the same person with a slight twist in the definition between GEDCOM 5.5 and 7.0. So it recommends two individuals with the possible sameness mentioned in their research notes (RESN) or in the individuals' Notes. Then goes on:If you want to link the two George Smiths together in some way, you could use the ASSO (Association) tag to indicate that there is a connection between them, such as a possible familial relationship. However, you would need to be careful to ensure that the association is clearly labeled as uncertain or speculative, and you should only use this tag if there is at least some evidence to support the possibility of a connection.Of course, should you wish to transmit your data to some other system, there is the question whether it supports the ASSO tag.
Questions often arise about points of interpretation of various Gedom specifications. Sometimes all that becomes clear is that the spec is genuinely open to different interpretations. I don't think consulting ChatGPT helps - unless you decide to treat it as the final arbiter in any dispute. (In which case we could just close down this list and the FHUG forums and refer everyone to ChatGPT !)
On 18/03/2023 13:47, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Beverly Smallwood wrote:
Given the GEDCOM specification Mike listed, I should be using ALIAS to link these men.I'm startled by that interpretation although I recognise that GEDCOM is variously understood and there can be 'legal' constructs that few programs recognise and support. Without the dogged digging into the specs, I asked ChatGPT and it was very clear about ALIA being used for alternate names for the same person with a slight twist in the definition between GEDCOM 5.5 and 7.0. So it recommends two individuals with the possible sameness mentioned in their research notes (RESN) or in the individuals' Notes. Then goes on:If you want to link the two George Smiths together in some way, you could use the ASSO (Association) tag to indicate that there is a connection between them, such as a possible familial relationship. However, you would need to be careful to ensure that the association is clearly labeled as uncertain or speculative, and you should only use this tag if there is at least some evidence to support the possibility of a connection.Of course, should you wish to transmit your data to some other system, there is the question whether it supports the ASSO tag.
Questions often arise about points of interpretation of various Gedom specifications. Sometimes all that becomes clear is that the spec is genuinely open to different interpretations. I don't think consulting ChatGPT helps - unless you decide to treat it as the final arbiter in any dispute. (In which case we could just close down this list and the FHUG forums and refer everyone to ChatGPT !)
On 18/03/2023 13:47, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Beverly Smallwood wrote:
Given the GEDCOM specification Mike listed, I should be using ALIAS to link these men.I'm startled by that interpretation although I recognise that GEDCOM is variously understood and there can be 'legal' constructs that few programs recognise and support. Without the dogged digging into the specs, I asked ChatGPT and it was very clear about ALIA being used for alternate names for the same person with a slight twist in the definition between GEDCOM 5.5 and 7.0. So it recommends two individuals with the possible sameness mentioned in their research notes (RESN) or in the individuals' Notes. Then goes on:If you want to link the two George Smiths together in some way, you could use the ASSO (Association) tag to indicate that there is a connection between them, such as a possible familial relationship. However, you would need to be careful to ensure that the association is clearly labeled as uncertain or speculative, and you should only use this tag if there is at least some evidence to support the possibility of a connection.Of course, should you wish to transmit your data to some other system, there is the question whether it supports the ASSO tag.
I'm just staring to read about GEDCOM 7. Any idea if and when FH will incorporate into FHOn Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 02:26:25 PM EDT, Beverly Smallwood <bevsmallwood@...> wrote:I took the opportunity to use the 'Other Relationship' feature on FamilySearch today:It's a two way link! I wish FH did this. If you click on the edit pencil you will see notes, sources and events. All of this is available from either person's view.Questions often arise about points of interpretation of various Gedom specifications. Sometimes all that becomes clear is that the spec is genuinely open to different interpretations. I don't think consulting ChatGPT helps - unless you decide to treat it as the final arbiter in any dispute. (In which case we could just close down this list and the FHUG forums and refer everyone to ChatGPT !)
On 18/03/2023 13:47, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Beverly Smallwood wrote:
Given the GEDCOM specification Mike listed, I should be using ALIAS to link these men.I'm startled by that interpretation although I recognise that GEDCOM is variously understood and there can be 'legal' constructs that few programs recognise and support. Without the dogged digging into the specs, I asked ChatGPT and it was very clear about ALIA being used for alternate names for the same person with a slight twist in the definition between GEDCOM 5.5 and 7.0. So it recommends two individuals with the possible sameness mentioned in their research notes (RESN) or in the individuals' Notes. Then goes on:If you want to link the two George Smiths together in some way, you could use the ASSO (Association) tag to indicate that there is a connection between them, such as a possible familial relationship. However, you would need to be careful to ensure that the association is clearly labeled as uncertain or speculative, and you should only use this tag if there is at least some evidence to support the possibility of a connection.Of course, should you wish to transmit your data to some other system, there is the question whether it supports the ASSO tag.
see also https://gedcom.io/migrate/
They may have catered for exporting to a Gedcom 7 file, and reading from one, with conversions to and from the V5.5.1 specs and warnings about what may get lost.
However, they now do allow to import and export using the new GEDZIP formats, which in reality are your regular or host gedcom 5.5.n files, and all associated media files into a generic gdz Zip file. It saves you doing this manually.
My standard gedcom is 80,976 KB, Media folders 1.87GB in size and the gedcom7 gdz results in a 1,762,427 KB file. I think regular ftp programs may timeout with a file that big!
Vyger, FH has not yet integrated the Gedcom 7 standard. As far as I am aware, they have NOT included the new structures, Tags, etc that will become available with a true gedcom7 file. Start a new project in v7.19 and then check the 2 VERS tag which still indicates Gedcom version 5.5.1.
see also https://gedcom.io/migrate/
They may have catered for exporting to a Gedcom 7 file, and reading from one, with conversions to and from the V5.5.1 specs and warnings about what may get lost.
However, they now do allow to import and export using the new GEDZIP formats, which in reality are your regular or host gedcom 5.5.n files, and all associated media files into a generic gdz Zip file. It saves you doing this manually.
My standard gedcom is 80,976 KB, Media folders 1.87GB in size and the gedcom7 gdz results in a 1,762,427 KB file. I think regular ftp programs may timeout with a file that big!
Jackson,
I suggest you need to become more familiar with the GEDCOM 7.0 and 5.5.1 specifications.
Although ASSO is a valid tag in GEDCOM 5.5.1 (and earlier) it is only allowed at the Individual record level to link two Individuals.
In GEDCOM 7.0 it is now also allowed at the Fact level similar to the de facto _SHAR shared Witness.
However, the ASSO subsidiary ROLE tag is more formally defined than the _SHAR subsidiary ROLE tag.
So it is not as simple as just substituting _SHAR with ASSO.
See my posting in the FHUG Importing and Exporting Forum on FH import/export GEDCOM 7 issues:
https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=21665
Jackson,
I suggest you need to become more familiar with the GEDCOM 7.0 and 5.5.1 specifications.
Although ASSO is a valid tag in GEDCOM 5.5.1 (and earlier) it is only allowed at the Individual record level to link two Individuals.
In GEDCOM 7.0 it is now also allowed at the Fact level similar to the de facto _SHAR shared Witness.
However, the ASSO subsidiary ROLE tag is more formally defined than the _SHAR subsidiary ROLE tag.
So it is not as simple as just substituting _SHAR with ASSO.
See my posting in the FHUG Importing and Exporting Forum on FH import/export GEDCOM 7 issues:
https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=21665