Advice on best practice


Brian Horridge
 

Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census. 

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns.  I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database.  I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images.  It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information.  One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents.  Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns.  It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian


Victor Markham
 

I record the number of dead/live children in the 1911 census via Ancestral Sources

Victor

On 04/01/2022 8:24 am, Brian Horridge via groups.io wrote:
Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census. 

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns.  I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database.  I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images.  It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information.  One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents.  Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns.  It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian


Neil Grantham
 

Like Victor, I also use Ancestral Sources to do this.

It has templates for all the UK censuses, which for 1911 includes what you mentioned


Best Wishes


Neil.





------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Horridge via groups.io" <brian.horridge@...>
To: family-historian@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 4 Jan, 2022 At 08:24
Subject: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census.

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns. I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database. I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images. It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information. One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents. Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns. It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian

--
Neil Grantham
-------------------
Using FH 7 & AS 7
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow, Birchall.


Andy Kennedy
 

Hi Brian,

There is a standard fact called Child Count that can be dated. I use that with a slightly altered sentence to say how many child were still living and how many had died for 1911 census. It's useful for other records too.

Andy


Brian Horridge
 

Neil / Victor

I did use Ancestral Sources to record my 1911 census returns but I now suspect that the version I'm using (Ver 5.2.0) did not transfer the info into FH.

I've now updated to Ver 7.2.7 so hopefully that will solve any future 1911  records (but unfortunately not retrospective!!).  Hopefully AS will be updated to include additions for 1921 facts.  I might hold of entering data using AS for a short time.

I've already noticed that AS Ver 7.2.7 works slightly different to my old Ver 5.2.0 (it does not automatically set the census date) so I'll need to check all my AS settings.

Thanks

Brian



On 04/01/2022 09:08, Neil Grantham via groups.io wrote:
Like Victor, I also use Ancestral Sources to do this.

It has templates for all the UK censuses, which for 1911 includes what you mentioned


Best Wishes


Neil.





------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Horridge via groups.io" <brian.horridge@...>
To: family-historian@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 4 Jan, 2022 At 08:24
Subject: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census.

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns. I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database. I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images. It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information. One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents. Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns. It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Neil Grantham
-------------------
Using FH 7 & AS 7
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow, Birchall.


Mike Tate
 

Yes, it is possible that AS v5.2 would not update FH v7.0 but it should have said so.

 

Use the standard Child Count attribute fact to record the number of children on a particular date.

 

For me, in AS v7.2.7, once you have chosen the Census option, the Country, and the Year, then the Date is automatically completed.

 

Are you perhaps choosing Electoral Register which does not have specific dates?

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 09:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Neil / Victor

I did use Ancestral Sources to record my 1911 census returns but I now suspect that the version I'm using (Ver 5.2.0) did not transfer the info into FH.

I've now updated to Ver 7.2.7 so hopefully that will solve any future 1911  records (but unfortunately not retrospective!!).  Hopefully AS will be updated to include additions for 1921 facts.  I might hold of entering data using AS for a short time.

I've already noticed that AS Ver 7.2.7 works slightly different to my old Ver 5.2.0 (it does not automatically set the census date) so I'll need to check all my AS settings.

Thanks

Brian


Brian Horridge
 

Mike

I'm still running FH 6.2 and now using AS 7.2.7.

Since the advice this morning from Neil and Victor I have done some 1911 inputting on a test gedcom file and although I've entered years married and number of live and deceased children against the wife (using the proper columns in AS) the data does not seem to have been transferred in the FH Gedcom file.  Is there a specific AS Option setting that I need to select.  I use Method 2 (data in Citation) and I've checked the AS Options but cannot find an obvious tick-box to make it happen.

Also, would the fact that I'm working on a Gedcom file rather than a FH Project have any impact.

I realise that with AS 7.2.7 you now have to select the census region and year to get the event date whereas before it did it automatically.  I fully understand now the reason why but it was a change I was not expecting.

Also, is there any information as to when AS might be updated to include support for the 1921 census??

Many thanks

Brian




On 04/01/2022 10:09, Mike Tate wrote:

Yes, it is possible that AS v5.2 would not update FH v7.0 but it should have said so.

 

Use the standard Child Count attribute fact to record the number of children on a particular date.

 

For me, in AS v7.2.7, once you have chosen the Census option, the Country, and the Year, then the Date is automatically completed.

 

Are you perhaps choosing Electoral Register which does not have specific dates?

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 09:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Neil / Victor

I did use Ancestral Sources to record my 1911 census returns but I now suspect that the version I'm using (Ver 5.2.0) did not transfer the info into FH.

I've now updated to Ver 7.2.7 so hopefully that will solve any future 1911  records (but unfortunately not retrospective!!).  Hopefully AS will be updated to include additions for 1921 facts.  I might hold of entering data using AS for a short time.

I've already noticed that AS Ver 7.2.7 works slightly different to my old Ver 5.2.0 (it does not automatically set the census date) so I'll need to check all my AS settings.

Thanks

Brian


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Mike Tate
 

Brian,

I think you are mistaken.

How could AS v5.2 possibly have automatically determined a specific Date without knowing the Region and Year of the Census?

 

The default Census Template setting only records details such as the number of children born, living, died in the Text From Source field of the Citation in your case.

 

To change that default use Tools > Census Templates… and select the Type=Census, Region=England & Year=1911.

Then the Total number of Children columns can have the Recording option changed to Append to census event local note.

 

Otherwise, you must wait until back in FH and add the Children still Living count to a Child Count attribute.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 10:54
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Mike

I'm still running FH 6.2 and now using AS 7.2.7.

Since the advice this morning from Neil and Victor I have done some 1911 inputting on a test gedcom file and although I've entered years married and number of live and deceased children against the wife (using the proper columns in AS) the data does not seem to have been transferred in the FH Gedcom file.  Is there a specific AS Option setting that I need to select.  I use Method 2 (data in Citation) and I've checked the AS Options but cannot find an obvious tick-box to make it happen.

Also, would the fact that I'm working on a Gedcom file rather than a FH Project have any impact.

I realise that with AS 7.2.7 you now have to select the census region and year to get the event date whereas before it did it automatically.  I fully understand now the reason why but it was a change I was not expecting.

Also, is there any information as to when AS might be updated to include support for the 1921 census??

Many thanks

Brian


Brian Horridge
 

Mike

I was not mistaken but I forgot to mention that in 5.2.4 I first selected my Source (Titled 1911 Census) and then this automatically populated the Year and Date values.  I do not remember seeing the Region field (just Type and Year) and now I've installed AS 7.2.7  it's not easy to go back and check (and it's not now relevant anyway).  I know that the Date did not change if I changed to a different source while AS was still open but it always worked when I first fired up AS and chose a Census source.

Following your advice, I revisited AS Tools and saw that the settings for the Years Married and No of children were set to "Don't Record".  I've now changed them to "Append to Census Event local note" and it now records the relevant data.

Interestingly, it used to work for my OK wife but the latest AS version does not and I suspect that when she upgraded to AS 7.2.7 it reset her settings to "Don't Record" (she has now changed these).

I suppose this is a downside to adding more features but still welcome none-the-less.

I must admit that it would be nice if the data could be automatically recorded in a separate Attribute rather than as text in a Census Local Note as then this could be displayed easier in a separate Query column for later research.  Something for the AS Wish List I think.

Again, many thanks

Brian

On 04/01/2022 12:00, Mike Tate wrote:

Brian,

I think you are mistaken.

How could AS v5.2 possibly have automatically determined a specific Date without knowing the Region and Year of the Census?

 

The default Census Template setting only records details such as the number of children born, living, died in the Text From Source field of the Citation in your case.

 

To change that default use Tools > Census Templates… and select the Type=Census, Region=England & Year=1911.

Then the Total number of Children columns can have the Recording option changed to Append to census event local note.

 

Otherwise, you must wait until back in FH and add the Children still Living count to a Child Count attribute.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 10:54
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Mike

I'm still running FH 6.2 and now using AS 7.2.7.

Since the advice this morning from Neil and Victor I have done some 1911 inputting on a test gedcom file and although I've entered years married and number of live and deceased children against the wife (using the proper columns in AS) the data does not seem to have been transferred in the FH Gedcom file.  Is there a specific AS Option setting that I need to select.  I use Method 2 (data in Citation) and I've checked the AS Options but cannot find an obvious tick-box to make it happen.

Also, would the fact that I'm working on a Gedcom file rather than a FH Project have any impact.

I realise that with AS 7.2.7 you now have to select the census region and year to get the event date whereas before it did it automatically.  I fully understand now the reason why but it was a change I was not expecting.

Also, is there any information as to when AS might be updated to include support for the 1921 census??

Many thanks

Brian


Virus-free. www.avg.com