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Dates

Derek Heritage
 

What is best practice when entering dates of events?
What I mean is this - if you have a birth certificate, date of birth from 1939 register and copy of GRO info. Do you enter 3 separate facts for birth, each confirmed by a source, or one fact, confirmed by 3 sources.
Derek Heritage
Jenny Cochrane
 

I would do 1 fact with 3 sources.

I would only duplicate a fact if there was doubt about the date and even then would possibly use a "btwn" dates or a note/tentative fact flag. Duplicating birth facts will just cause confusion in charts/reports etc.

Jenny

On Friday, 28 October 2022 at 14:57:27 BST, Derek Heritage <fhnugp22@...> wrote:


What is best practice when entering dates of events?
What I mean is this - if you have a birth certificate, date of birth from 1939 register and copy of GRO info. Do you enter 3 separate facts for birth, each confirmed by a source, or one fact, confirmed by 3 sources.
Derek Heritage

colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

If the three sources all state the same date of birth, you would enter one fact supported by the 3 sources.

 

If they state different dates, there are two ways of working (neither is better than the other, they just suit different people’s ways of working generally).

 

  1. Different facts for the different dates, supported by the relevant source(s). If you did this, you would probably use the Preferred/Rejected/Tentative Facts Flags to indicate which Birth Fact you believed to be most accurate etc.
  2. A single fact, with all three sources cited, and a note to indicate your thinking process in selecting the date/place that you settled on.

 

P.S. If I have the Birth certificate, I tend not to record the GRO Index info as it’s necessarily less accurate and not independent of the birth certificate.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Derek Heritage
Sent: 28 October 2022 14:57
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Dates

 

What is best practice when entering dates of events?
What I mean is this - if you have a birth certificate, date of birth from 1939 register and copy of GRO info. Do you enter 3 separate facts for birth, each confirmed by a source, or one fact, confirmed by 3 sources.
Derek Heritage

_._,_._,_
colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

In V7, you can mark a Fact as Private to exclude it from reports.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jenny Cochrane via groups.io
Sent: 28 October 2022 15:10
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Dates

 

I would do 1 fact with 3 sources.

 

I would only duplicate a fact if there was doubt about the date and even then would possibly use a "btwn" dates or a note/tentative fact flag. Duplicating birth facts will just cause confusion in charts/reports etc.

 

Jenny

 
John Hanson
 

Derek

As always no one set answer

IF all three are the same the one date three sources

 

If there is a discrepancy I would always take the certificate as the true date

1939 register is what they remembered or what the enumerator thought they saw on the schedule completed

Only time to question a birth certificate is if the number of days between birth and registration is exactly 42 – they lied about the date to save paying the fine

 

Death certificates are probably the worse for dates as the only person who knew the truth was the deceased.

 

Not sure what you mean by “and copy of GRO info”

 

Regards

John Hanson FSG

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Derek Heritage
Sent: 28 October 2022 14:57
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Dates

 

What is best practice when entering dates of events?
What I mean is this - if you have a birth certificate, date of birth from 1939 register and copy of GRO info. Do you enter 3 separate facts for birth, each confirmed by a source, or one fact, confirmed by 3 sources.
Derek Heritage

Phil Stokes
 

How many times was the individual born? Most of us are only born once, so one birth fact in my opinion, three sources supporting the fact, with your assessment of the reliability and accuracy of each source informing your opinion of the likely date or period in which the birth occurred.

 

None of the documents can be relied on as completely accurate. The birth certificate is probably most likely to be correct, but errors can be made on any document, and lies can be told.

 

Birth dates in the 1939 register are only as good as the individual’s or a relative’s recollection, or their wish to perhaps shave off a year or two of their actual age.

 

The GRO index tells you the quarter in which the birth was registered. The date of birth might be prior to that quarter in some circumstances.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Derek Heritage
Sent: 28 October 2022 14:57
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Dates

 

What is best practice when entering dates of events?
What I mean is this - if you have a birth certificate, date of birth from 1939 register and copy of GRO info. Do you enter 3 separate facts for birth, each confirmed by a source, or one fact, confirmed by 3 sources.
Derek Heritage

Trevor Rix
 

I would scan or photograph the birth certificate, link that image to the birth person using Property Box > Media tab > Add Media. Then record the date and place of birth in the Property Box Main tab. Then pick the "birth certificate" flag that turns on the "B" icon in diagrams for that person.

Then download the image of the page from the 1939 Register. Use Ancestral Sources to record the people in the household, linking the image to the people concerned. When back in FH I select one person in the household and use the "Exclude Selected media from Diagrams" plugin to do just that - exclude the thumbnail. The 1939 Register expression automatically displays the "39" icon for the household in diagrams.

I would double check that the GRO birth index entry agrees with the birth certificate but take no further action.

So, to answer the question, I would only record the date of birth once. If the 1939 Register shows a different date of birth I would usually let the birth date on the birth certificate take precedence as the actual birth date.

This is my method that has worked well for me for over 20 years. Please no criticism.
 
Jenny Cochrane
 

No criticism Trevor.

 I used to do add media like you but since the upgrade to the sources function I now find attaching media to the source record makes it more visible and keeps all the source material together. I know immediately if I have a media record for the source or not. I still use the media tab for more general items such as photos. 

But as ever, there is no one "right" way to do something in FH.

Jenny

On Friday, 28 October 2022 at 18:48:27 BST, Trevor Rix <trevor@...> wrote:


I would scan or photograph the birth certificate, link that image to the birth person using Property Box > Media tab > Add Media. Then record the date and place of birth in the Property Box Main tab. Then pick the "birth certificate" flag that turns on the "B" icon in diagrams for that person.

Then download the image of the page from the 1939 Register. Use Ancestral Sources to record the people in the household, linking the image to the people concerned. When back in FH I select one person in the household and use the "Exclude Selected media from Diagrams" plugin to do just that - exclude the thumbnail. The 1939 Register expression automatically displays the "39" icon for the household in diagrams.

I would double check that the GRO birth index entry agrees with the birth certificate but take no further action.

So, to answer the question, I would only record the date of birth once. If the 1939 Register shows a different date of birth I would usually let the birth date on the birth certificate take precedence as the actual birth date.

This is my method that has worked well for me for over 20 years. Please no criticism.
 
Trevor Rix
 

Thanks Jenny.

To explain some more, I work in diagrams 95% of the time, and make extensive use of icons in diagrams, each icon denoting which source images are linked to which people. I can see at a glance what I have and have not done.

I prefer to spend my time researching and DNA sleuthing rather than being a slave to transcribing. My images are my sources.

As FH is so flexible and customisable, as you say, there is no right or wrong way. We all do what works for us 🙂
 
Derek Heritage
 

Thanks, everyone. My way has always been one date,  3 sources (in my example).
But had just watched a video, which showed each one as a separate fact.
Richard Scantlebury
 

Derek, I reckon you’ve been watching a GOONS webinar by Paul Howes who has huge study. It was a method we followed when we did the GOONS Ruby Collaborative study although it’s not method I used but I did learn and put into practice some other methods & practices as used by Paul for my own study.

 

 

Best wishes and Kind regards

Rich Scantlebury

 In global pursuit of Scantleburys & Skentelberys for a one name study - 3209

http://scantlebury.one-name.net/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/richscats/

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Derek Heritage
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2022 10:27
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Dates

 

Thanks, everyone. My way has always been one date,  3 sources (in my example).
But had just watched a video, which showed each one as a separate fact.

Edward Sneithe
 

I record one fact with as many sources as I have. If I have conflicting data I write a Proof Statement in my note field explaining my reasoning for selecting a particular date or range. ( Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof Statements 1 ) You can make that part of the note private so it does not print out on reports.

I have sources for every fact that I have. Most of the time I have multiple sources for a fact. I grab an image of the source and I store that in a directory system on my PC that makes the documents easy to find. That image is not a source. It is only an image of a source and that is what I use as a source not my image of it. The goal of sourcing is to provide direction for anyone to find the source and if your only reference is an image on your PC the it is not really a source IMHO.

I have only two solid requirements for genealogical research and recording. Every fact must be accurate  and it must also be well sourced. Without this I have just fiction - again IMHO



On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 05:58:05 AM EDT, Richard Scantlebury via groups.io <richard.scantlebury@...> wrote:


Derek, I reckon you’ve been watching a GOONS webinar by Paul Howes who has huge study. It was a method we followed when we did the GOONS Ruby Collaborative study although it’s not method I used but I did learn and put into practice some other methods & practices as used by Paul for my own study.

 

 

Best wishes and Kind regards

Rich Scantlebury

 In global pursuit of Scantleburys & Skentelberys for a one name study - 3209

http://scantlebury.one-name.net/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/richscats/

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Derek Heritage
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2022 10:27
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Dates

 

Thanks, everyone. My way has always been one date,  3 sources (in my example).
But had just watched a video, which showed each one as a separate fact.

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