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Sourcing info from my research

Edward Sneithe
 

I have a couple of instances that I’m not sure how to provide citations.

1.        If I have a complete tree in FH well documented but in writing a report I want to say George, Fred’s Gr Gr Uncle. Nowhere, except FH, does that generation designation exist. How do I source information in my own tree as displayed by FH?

2.       Can I use my own genealogical tree as a source?

3.       I want to say I have 8 ancestors that fought in the Revolution. This data only shows up in my tree.

4.       If I want to say the fourth child was Tom, how do I source that? Sometimes a birth record will record which number of child this is but beyond that it comes from my research and my tree>

Mike Tate
 

None of those fragments of information are sources nor do they need specific citations.

They are ‘facts’ derived from several other source citations.

e.g.

The relationship between George and Fred is derived from Source Citations that give the parent-child relationship over several generations in such as Birth, Marriage & Census documents. Using your tree as a source is only saying the same thing, that various Source documents together justify the family tree.

 

Similarly, the fact that Tom is the fourth child comes from his sibling’s Birth citations that provide their Date of Birth, and that determines the birth order.

 

The 8 ancestors each have a citation related to the Revolution. No more citations are necessary.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Edward Sneithe via groups.io
Sent: 30 January 2022 18:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Sourcing info from my research

 

I have a couple of instances that I’m not sure how to provide citations.

1.        If I have a complete tree in FH well documented but in writing a report I want to say George, Fred’s Gr Gr Uncle. Nowhere, except FH, does that generation designation exist. How do I source information in my own tree as displayed by FH?

2.       Can I use my own genealogical tree as a source?

3.       I want to say I have 8 ancestors that fought in the Revolution. This data only shows up in my tree.

4.       If I want to say the fourth child was Tom, how do I source that? Sometimes a birth record will record which number of child this is but beyond that it comes from my research and my tree>

Adrian Bruce
 

I would agree with Mike - the crucial bits are the sourcing and citations for the bits that go together to make up the fact that X is the GG-uncle (or whatever) of Y, not the end result. 

That takes me into considering what is necessary to deal with X being the GG-uncle of Y. If it was me, since I believe that a picture is worth a thousand words, I'd include a fragment of a chart showing that relationship near to the text talking about X and Y - I presume that we're talking about some document to contain all this. If I included such a chart, would I think that I needed to document and source the intermediate links between X and Y? No - I think that I'm assuming that there is some reason for skipping over the intermediate generations - such as X being a worthy subject in his own right. If, on the other hand, you're dealing with a controversial ancestry, then the answer is different - but that doesn't sound like your (theoretical) topic.  

It's vital to have all this sourced and cited in your database. But what you actually need to print will depend very much on your topic(s) and how much you value clarity and ease of reading.

I'd just throw 2 rules of thumb in - Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should. And... You don't need to provide a citation for the sky being blue (apparently that is a Wikipedia advice topic).

Also - others are highly likely to disagree with me on topics! 

Adrian

Edward Sneithe
 

Thanks Mike and Adrian,

I am doing a story on a single family in my tree. They are worthy of special consideration and I have a good deal of documentation on them.  Since one child will go on and fight in the Civil War I thought it would be nice to show that many of his ancestors fought in the Revolutionary war.

Adrian - your thought of a partial chart may work.. I can  provide a single line chart from my family directly back to the Rev War ancestors.

I am always trying to be extra careful bout what I release and having sources for everything. I have found way too much information across many platforms that is incorrect and totally unsourced making that all fiction in my opinion.

Thanks again I think I have a way forward.

On Sunday, January 30, 2022, 03:31:50 PM EST, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@...> wrote:


I would agree with Mike - the crucial bits are the sourcing and citations for the bits that go together to make up the fact that X is the GG-uncle (or whatever) of Y, not the end result. 

That takes me into considering what is necessary to deal with X being the GG-uncle of Y. If it was me, since I believe that a picture is worth a thousand words, I'd include a fragment of a chart showing that relationship near to the text talking about X and Y - I presume that we're talking about some document to contain all this. If I included such a chart, would I think that I needed to document and source the intermediate links between X and Y? No - I think that I'm assuming that there is some reason for skipping over the intermediate generations - such as X being a worthy subject in his own right. If, on the other hand, you're dealing with a controversial ancestry, then the answer is different - but that doesn't sound like your (theoretical) topic.  

It's vital to have all this sourced and cited in your database. But what you actually need to print will depend very much on your topic(s) and how much you value clarity and ease of reading.

I'd just throw 2 rules of thumb in - Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should. And... You don't need to provide a citation for the sky being blue (apparently that is a Wikipedia advice topic).

Also - others are highly likely to disagree with me on topics! 

Adrian

Jan Murphy
 

Edward --

In some of these cases, you seem to be askling about writing a citation when what you really need is a proof summary or proof statement. 

These links may be or interest:

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 1  

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 2 

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Documentation and the Research Report

Evidence Explained QuickLesson 17: The Evidence Analysis Process Map

Evidence Explained: EAM & GPS: Newsflash! Siblings, not Twins

Let's use your case #3 as an example.

"I want to say I have 8 ancestors that fought in the Revolution. This data only shows up in my tree." 

Where did this information come from? It's pretty likely that you didn't observe your ancestors' military service, so you must be taking someone else's word for it. Who (or what document) says so?  Your statement that you descent from those 8 patriots is just a nice story without a proof argument and sources to back it up.  The information you consulted to learn about their services are contained inside sources. You write citations about those sources.  You write a proof argument or summary to show how the information in those sources backs up your assertion that you are descended from 8 Patriots.




Kai Chandler
 

Jan, thanks for those very useful links. They are also very timely for me as I'm about to start writing a short research report!

Kai

On 01/02/2022 03:02, Jan Murphy wrote:

Edward --

In some of these cases, you seem to be askling about writing a citation when what you really need is a proof summary or proof statement. 

These links may be or interest:

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 1  

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 2 

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Documentation and the Research Report

Evidence Explained QuickLesson 17: The Evidence Analysis Process Map

Evidence Explained: EAM & GPS: Newsflash! Siblings, not Twins

Let's use your case #3 as an example.

"I want to say I have 8 ancestors that fought in the Revolution. This data only shows up in my tree." 

Where did this information come from? It's pretty likely that you didn't observe your ancestors' military service, so you must be taking someone else's word for it. Who (or what document) says so?  Your statement that you descent from those 8 patriots is just a nice story without a proof argument and sources to back it up.  The information you consulted to learn about their services are contained inside sources. You write citations about those sources.  You write a proof argument or summary to show how the information in those sources backs up your assertion that you are descended from 8 Patriots.




Edward Sneithe
 

Great suggestions .

My goal is to write a story that will read very much like an historical novel. In a research report I would have the flexibility to include proof statements and include as much of a tree as needed to provide the evidence.

I am finding that writing a story that people may want to read is much more challenging for me than writing a research report or producing the standard type of ancestor or descendant reports.

Hopefully with your suggestions I can get past the citation and source issue.

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022, 02:25:52 AM EST, Kai Chandler <kchandler@...> wrote:


Jan, thanks for those very useful links. They are also very timely for me as I'm about to start writing a short research report!

Kai

On 01/02/2022 03:02, Jan Murphy wrote:

Edward --

In some of these cases, you seem to be askling about writing a citation when what you really need is a proof summary or proof statement. 

These links may be or interest:

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 1  

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Proof statements 2 

BCG website: Ten-Minute Methodology: Documentation and the Research Report

Evidence Explained QuickLesson 17: The Evidence Analysis Process Map

Evidence Explained: EAM & GPS: Newsflash! Siblings, not Twins

Let's use your case #3 as an example.

"I want to say I have 8 ancestors that fought in the Revolution. This data only shows up in my tree." 

Where did this information come from? It's pretty likely that you didn't observe your ancestors' military service, so you must be taking someone else's word for it. Who (or what document) says so?  Your statement that you descent from those 8 patriots is just a nice story without a proof argument and sources to back it up.  The information you consulted to learn about their services are contained inside sources. You write citations about those sources.  You write a proof argument or summary to show how the information in those sources backs up your assertion that you are descended from 8 Patriots.




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