Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census. 

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns.  I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database.  I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images.  It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information.  One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents.  Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns.  It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian

------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Horridge via groups.io" <brian.horridge@...>
To: family-historian@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 4 Jan, 2022 At 08:24
Subject: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census.

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns. I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database. I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images. It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information. One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents. Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns. It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian

Like Victor, I also use Ancestral Sources to do this.

It has templates for all the UK censuses, which for 1911 includes what you mentioned

Best Wishes

Neil.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Horridge via groups.io" <brian.horridge@...>
To: family-historian@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 4 Jan, 2022 At 08:24
Subject: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

Hi all

Can I ask if (and how) people record minor facts such as the number of alive / dead children that a couple had in the 1911 census.

When I started many years ago it was difficult to identify the names of any deceased children recorded in the 1911 but the new GRO database has helped fill in those gaps but I did not at the time systematically record the numbers given on the census returns. I did enter all the 1911 data in Ancestral Sources but I'm not aware that it was added in to my FH database. I'm currently working back through pre-1911 families but it's not easy unless I revisit the original images. It would have been useful if I'd recorded the numbers so I could just run a query to identify the families to investigate.

Another reason for raising it now is the impending release of the 1921 census that may also provide other similar (but minor) information. One fact that I think is in the 1921 is whether a child has lost one or both parents. Again, this does not seem to be a fact that would normally be recorded against an individual but could be useful in the future if recorded while looking at the 1921 returns. It does not seem that the number of deceased children is recorded in the 1921 census but it does record the number of children alive - again a useful fact to have available for later review.

It would be easy to create a Custom fact but I thought I'd ask others before I go too far down the wrong rabbit hole.

Many thanks

Brian

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Neil Grantham
-------------------
Using FH 7 & AS 7
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow, Birchall.

Neil / Victor

I did use Ancestral Sources to record my 1911 census returns but I now suspect that the version I'm using (Ver 5.2.0) did not transfer the info into FH.

I've now updated to Ver 7.2.7 so hopefully that will solve any future 1911  records (but unfortunately not retrospective!!).  Hopefully AS will be updated to include additions for 1921 facts.  I might hold of entering data using AS for a short time.

I've already noticed that AS Ver 7.2.7 works slightly different to my old Ver 5.2.0 (it does not automatically set the census date) so I'll need to check all my AS settings.

Thanks

Brian

Yes, it is possible that AS v5.2 would not update FH v7.0 but it should have said so.

 

Use the standard Child Count attribute fact to record the number of children on a particular date.

 

For me, in AS v7.2.7, once you have chosen the Census option, the Country, and the Year, then the Date is automatically completed.

 

Are you perhaps choosing Electoral Register which does not have specific dates?

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 09:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Neil / Victor

I did use Ancestral Sources to record my 1911 census returns but I now suspect that the version I'm using (Ver 5.2.0) did not transfer the info into FH.

I've now updated to Ver 7.2.7 so hopefully that will solve any future 1911  records (but unfortunately not retrospective!!).  Hopefully AS will be updated to include additions for 1921 facts.  I might hold of entering data using AS for a short time.

I've already noticed that AS Ver 7.2.7 works slightly different to my old Ver 5.2.0 (it does not automatically set the census date) so I'll need to check all my AS settings.

Thanks

Brian

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Mike

I'm still running FH 6.2 and now using AS 7.2.7.

Since the advice this morning from Neil and Victor I have done some 1911 inputting on a test gedcom file and although I've entered years married and number of live and deceased children against the wife (using the proper columns in AS) the data does not seem to have been transferred in the FH Gedcom file.  Is there a specific AS Option setting that I need to select.  I use Method 2 (data in Citation) and I've checked the AS Options but cannot find an obvious tick-box to make it happen.

Also, would the fact that I'm working on a Gedcom file rather than a FH Project have any impact.

I realise that with AS 7.2.7 you now have to select the census region and year to get the event date whereas before it did it automatically.  I fully understand now the reason why but it was a change I was not expecting.

Also, is there any information as to when AS might be updated to include support for the 1921 census??

Many thanks

Brian

Brian,

I think you are mistaken.

How could AS v5.2 possibly have automatically determined a specific Date without knowing the Region and Year of the Census?

 

The default Census Template setting only records details such as the number of children born, living, died in the Text From Source field of the Citation in your case.

 

To change that default use Tools > Census Templates… and select the Type=Census, Region=England & Year=1911.

Then the Total number of Children columns can have the Recording option changed to Append to census event local note.

 

Otherwise, you must wait until back in FH and add the Children still Living count to a Child Count attribute.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Horridge via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2022 10:54
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Advice on best practice

 

Mike

I'm still running FH 6.2 and now using AS 7.2.7.

Since the advice this morning from Neil and Victor I have done some 1911 inputting on a test gedcom file and although I've entered years married and number of live and deceased children against the wife (using the proper columns in AS) the data does not seem to have been transferred in the FH Gedcom file.  Is there a specific AS Option setting that I need to select.  I use Method 2 (data in Citation) and I've checked the AS Options but cannot find an obvious tick-box to make it happen.

Also, would the fact that I'm working on a Gedcom file rather than a FH Project have any impact.

I realise that with AS 7.2.7 you now have to select the census region and year to get the event date whereas before it did it automatically.  I fully understand now the reason why but it was a change I was not expecting.

Also, is there any information as to when AS might be updated to include support for the 1921 census??

Many thanks

Brian

Virus-free. www.avg.com