FH7 stand alone


Kath Liddell
 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath


Mike Tate
 

Kath,

Did you not see all the other postings on this topic?

FH updates/upgrades always overwrite the previous installation but FH v7.0 makes more changes than most.

You can keep FH v6.2 on one PC and install FH v7.0 on another PC but they can’t share anything.

You can migrate the FH v6.2 Projects and Settings to FH v7.0 but there is no easy way back.

 

The Export Gedcom File plugin allows FH v7.0 Projects to be exported in FH v6.2 format.

But the only sure way of getting back to FH v6.2 is with Full Project Backups AND the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings plugin backups.

 

Your last suggestion will certainly result in carnage.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath


Kath Liddell
 

Thank you. Yes, I have seen the other posts, but with other software it is usually just the upgrade that overwrites, not the stand alone pristine start-from-scratch version. That is why I bought the full version. That's what I did when FH6 was released and I don't recall any problem with FH5. Alas, it seems I have wasted my money.

Kath

On 17/12/2020 12:32, Mike Tate wrote:

Kath,

Did you not see all the other postings on this topic?

FH updates/upgrades always overwrite the previous installation but FH v7.0 makes more changes than most.

You can keep FH v6.2 on one PC and install FH v7.0 on another PC but they can’t share anything.

You can migrate the FH v6.2 Projects and Settings to FH v7.0 but there is no easy way back.

 

The Export Gedcom File plugin allows FH v7.0 Projects to be exported in FH v6.2 format.

But the only sure way of getting back to FH v6.2 is with Full Project Backups AND the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings plugin backups.

 

Your last suggestion will certainly result in carnage.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath



Mike Tate
 

When you upgraded from FH v5 to FH v6 it would have overwritten.

Reverting to FH v5 was not such a big change but Place records and Fact Witnesses would have been lost.

FH v7 is a MUCH bigger change.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:41
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

Thank you. Yes, I have seen the other posts, but with other software it is usually just the upgrade that overwrites, not the stand alone pristine start-from-scratch version. That is why I bought the full version. That's what I did when FH6 was released and I don't recall any problem with FH5. Alas, it seems I have wasted my money.

Kath

On 17/12/2020 12:32, Mike Tate wrote:

Kath,

Did you not see all the other postings on this topic?

FH updates/upgrades always overwrite the previous installation but FH v7.0 makes more changes than most.

You can keep FH v6.2 on one PC and install FH v7.0 on another PC but they can’t share anything.

You can migrate the FH v6.2 Projects and Settings to FH v7.0 but there is no easy way back.

 

The Export Gedcom File plugin allows FH v7.0 Projects to be exported in FH v6.2 format.

But the only sure way of getting back to FH v6.2 is with Full Project Backups AND the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings plugin backups.

 

Your last suggestion will certainly result in carnage.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath

 


stephen.challis@...
 

I agree, Kathy. I also would buy a full version in the expectation that it would not over-write the older version.

 

For example, I have versions 6 and 10 of Roxio CD Creator on my computer and versions 7 and 2020 of Adobe Premier Elements video editing software. As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. Only an upgrade should over-write the older version.

 

I suggest that if you still want to run both versions, you create another partition on which you would install your operating system, FH7 or FH6 and such other programs as you need to run the program. But setting it up is a time consuming process. I did it years ago and it’s not something I would repeat unless I was desperate.

 

Kind regards

 

Stephen Challis

Please reply to Stephen.Challis@...

 

From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 17 December 2020 14:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

When you upgraded from FH v5 to FH v6 it would have overwritten.

Reverting to FH v5 was not such a big change but Place records and Fact Witnesses would have been lost.

FH v7 is a MUCH bigger change.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:41
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

Thank you. Yes, I have seen the other posts, but with other software it is usually just the upgrade that overwrites, not the stand alone pristine start-from-scratch version. That is why I bought the full version. That's what I did when FH6 was released and I don't recall any problem with FH5. Alas, it seems I have wasted my money.

Kath

On 17/12/2020 12:32, Mike Tate wrote:

Kath,

Did you not see all the other postings on this topic?

FH updates/upgrades always overwrite the previous installation but FH v7.0 makes more changes than most.

You can keep FH v6.2 on one PC and install FH v7.0 on another PC but they can’t share anything.

You can migrate the FH v6.2 Projects and Settings to FH v7.0 but there is no easy way back.

 

The Export Gedcom File plugin allows FH v7.0 Projects to be exported in FH v6.2 format.

But the only sure way of getting back to FH v6.2 is with Full Project Backups AND the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings plugin backups.

 

Your last suggestion will certainly result in carnage.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath

 


Lorna Craig
 

New versions of FH have always installed over existing versions, ever since it was first released.  I suspect that if it had been possible for V7 to be installed alongside V6 on the same computer there would now be far more complaints.  Inevitably some people would not have heeded the warnings that V7 file structure is different, and they would have tried to open the same project with V6 after it had been converted to V7, resulting in data corruption.  So whatever Calico Pie had decided to do there would have been complaints!

Lorna

On 17/12/2020 19:01, stephen.challis@... wrote:

I agree, Kathy. I also would buy a full version in the expectation that it would not over-write the older version.

 

For example, I have versions 6 and 10 of Roxio CD Creator on my computer and versions 7 and 2020 of Adobe Premier Elements video editing software. As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. Only an upgrade should over-write the older version.

 

I suggest that if you still want to run both versions, you create another partition on which you would install your operating system, FH7 or FH6 and such other programs as you need to run the program. But setting it up is a time consuming process. I did it years ago and it’s not something I would repeat unless I was desperate.

 

Kind regards

 

Stephen Challis

Please reply to Stephen.Challis@...

 

From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 17 December 2020 14:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

When you upgraded from FH v5 to FH v6 it would have overwritten.

Reverting to FH v5 was not such a big change but Place records and Fact Witnesses would have been lost.

FH v7 is a MUCH bigger change.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:41
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

Thank you. Yes, I have seen the other posts, but with other software it is usually just the upgrade that overwrites, not the stand alone pristine start-from-scratch version. That is why I bought the full version. That's what I did when FH6 was released and I don't recall any problem with FH5. Alas, it seems I have wasted my money.

Kath

On 17/12/2020 12:32, Mike Tate wrote:

Kath,

Did you not see all the other postings on this topic?

FH updates/upgrades always overwrite the previous installation but FH v7.0 makes more changes than most.

You can keep FH v6.2 on one PC and install FH v7.0 on another PC but they can’t share anything.

You can migrate the FH v6.2 Projects and Settings to FH v7.0 but there is no easy way back.

 

The Export Gedcom File plugin allows FH v7.0 Projects to be exported in FH v6.2 format.

But the only sure way of getting back to FH v6.2 is with Full Project Backups AND the Backup and Restore Family Historian Settings plugin backups.

 

Your last suggestion will certainly result in carnage.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kath Liddell
Sent: 17 December 2020 12:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

 

I have paid for and downloaded a full version of FH7, not the upgrade, thinking I would be able to install on my computer without affecting the original version FH6.2.7. On a second laptop, on installation, the program detects the previous version and overwrites without providing an option to preserve FH6.

I would like to install FH7 as a pristine version without affecting my FH6 system and then perhaps import the FH6 gedcom later. Is it possible to do that?

What would happen if I unstinstall FH6, then install FH7, then re-install FH6 as well ? I'm guessing that would create carnage. Am I missing something?

Kath

 


Adrian Bruce
 

... As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. ...
I'm not so sure how universal that convention is. I know that people
have said that they do use software where they can happily install old
and new at the same time and run them in parallel. No doubt from this
that it can be made to work. Sometimes. However, for starters, you
need to install the software into different directories (e.g. FH6 and
FH7) - that's an extra something that can go wrong, especially if you
follow convention and allow people to decide where to install the
software.

Secondly, if you think how the file association works, right now .GED
files are opened by FH.EXE in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family
Historian\Program (or whatever your "Program Files" is called). If the
v7 is installed in a new folder, then, by default, all .GED files will
be opened by C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian v7\Program\FH.EXE
(say). That means that if you try to double click your GEDCOM 5.5
file, it *will* be opened by your v7 program and get converted to
GEDCOM 5.5.1. So if you're in a situation where both are installed,
you have to remember to open FH v6 first, then open the 5.5 file. And
heaven help you if, as Lorna says, you open a 5.5.1 file in v6.

Furthermore, file association knock-ons *probably* go on and on. I
suspect you'd not be able to download and install a new query into the
v6 FH because the extension .FHQ (is it?) will be pointing at the v7
FH. And LUA, as used by the plug-ins? That probably goes through
similar linkages that start with a versionless LUA key in the
registry. That's certainly what stuff looked like in the days when I
could read Windows Registries. Or thought I could.

Certain standalone software items, running on an unchanged and
unchangeable file format, clearly can be made to work in parallel on
one machine (I'm guessing that the file format for Adobe Elements
didn't change between those versions, e.g.. Or if it did, the file
extension changed - cf .DOC versus .DOCX). But anything with a wider
ecosystem requires a lot more hard work to have this sort of
capability. In my professional career, we certainly never had - never
paid for - bespoke software with that capability. Use 2 PCs would be
the answer to running in parallel.

Sorry if this sounds a lot - I'm just trying to emphasise that this is
not a trivial task, without a massive change to configurations - and
I'd rather pay for a massive change in usable abilities.

Adrian


Ian Thirlwell
 

All the versions you buy are full versions. The upgrade is the cheaper price you pay because you have an earlier version.
Ian


Mike Tate
 

Adrian, you are absolutely correct. It would be a nightmare.
Some products only support a few file types, c.f. MS Word/Excel, but FH is very different.

-----Original Message-----
From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce
Sent: 17 December 2020 20:54
To: Family Historian Groups.io mailing list <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

... As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. ...
I'm not so sure how universal that convention is. I know that people have said that they do use software where they can happily install old and new at the same time and run them in parallel. No doubt from this that it can be made to work. Sometimes. However, for starters, you need to install the software into different directories (e.g. FH6 and
FH7) - that's an extra something that can go wrong, especially if you follow convention and allow people to decide where to install the software.

Secondly, if you think how the file association works, right now .GED files are opened by FH.EXE in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian\Program (or whatever your "Program Files" is called). If the
v7 is installed in a new folder, then, by default, all .GED files will be opened by C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian v7\Program\FH.EXE (say). That means that if you try to double click your GEDCOM 5.5 file, it *will* be opened by your v7 program and get converted to GEDCOM 5.5.1. So if you're in a situation where both are installed, you have to remember to open FH v6 first, then open the 5.5 file. And heaven help you if, as Lorna says, you open a 5.5.1 file in v6.

Furthermore, file association knock-ons *probably* go on and on. I suspect you'd not be able to download and install a new query into the
v6 FH because the extension .FHQ (is it?) will be pointing at the v7 FH. And LUA, as used by the plug-ins? That probably goes through similar linkages that start with a versionless LUA key in the registry. That's certainly what stuff looked like in the days when I could read Windows Registries. Or thought I could.

Certain standalone software items, running on an unchanged and unchangeable file format, clearly can be made to work in parallel on one machine (I'm guessing that the file format for Adobe Elements didn't change between those versions, e.g.. Or if it did, the file extension changed - cf .DOC versus .DOCX). But anything with a wider ecosystem requires a lot more hard work to have this sort of capability. In my professional career, we certainly never had - never paid for - bespoke software with that capability. Use 2 PCs would be the answer to running in parallel.

Sorry if this sounds a lot - I'm just trying to emphasise that this is not a trivial task, without a massive change to configurations - and I'd rather pay for a massive change in usable abilities.

Adrian


stephen.challis@...
 

Interesting comments. Thanks.

Roxio CD creator permits (amongst other things) the editing of mp3 and other audio files. It is hardly a surprise that any audio file edited in a later version can be output and edited in an earlier version as such files are so common.

However, a video file created in Adobe Elements Premier 2020 cannot be exported to and edited in version 7 (which is 12 years old). Nevertheless, you can have both versions running on a single instance of Windows 10. The older version of Adobe Elements Premier 2020 has a feature that the newer version doesn't so I still like to use it sometimes.

I do feel that if you have paid the full price for FH7 and already paid the full price for FH6 you should have the option of keeping both (though perhaps you should be warned that you might get in a mess if you do). You have, after all, paid the full price for both versions, and I don't see that Calico Pie has the right to effectively delete a program that you have legitimately purchased without at least asking permission.

Kind regards

Stephen Challis

Please reply to Stephen.Challis@...

-----Original Message-----
From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 17 December 2020 21:30
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

Adrian, you are absolutely correct. It would be a nightmare.

Some products only support a few file types, c.f. MS Word/Excel, but FH is very different.

-----Original Message-----

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce

Sent: 17 December 2020 20:54

To: Family Historian Groups.io mailing list <family-historian@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

>... As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. ...

I'm not so sure how universal that convention is. I know that people have said that they do use software where they can happily install old and new at the same time and run them in parallel. No doubt from this that it can be made to work. Sometimes. However, for starters, you need to install the software into different directories (e.g. FH6 and

FH7) - that's an extra something that can go wrong, especially if you follow convention and allow people to decide where to install the software.

Secondly, if you think how the file association works, right now .GED files are opened by FH.EXE in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian\Program (or whatever your "Program Files" is called). If the

v7 is installed in a new folder, then, by default, all .GED files will be opened by C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian v7\Program\FH.EXE (say). That means that if you try to double click your GEDCOM 5.5 file, it *will* be opened by your v7 program and get converted to GEDCOM 5.5.1. So if you're in a situation where both are installed, you have to remember to open FH v6 first, then open the 5.5 file. And heaven help you if, as Lorna says, you open a 5.5.1 file in v6.

Furthermore, file association knock-ons *probably* go on and on. I suspect you'd not be able to download and install a new query into the

v6 FH because the extension .FHQ (is it?) will be pointing at the v7 FH. And LUA, as used by the plug-ins? That probably goes through similar linkages that start with a versionless LUA key in the registry. That's certainly what stuff looked like in the days when I could read Windows Registries. Or thought I could.

Certain standalone software items, running on an unchanged and unchangeable file format, clearly can be made to work in parallel on one machine (I'm guessing that the file format for Adobe Elements didn't change between those versions, e.g.. Or if it did, the file extension changed - cf .DOC versus .DOCX). But anything with a wider ecosystem requires a lot more hard work to have this sort of capability. In my professional career, we certainly never had - never paid for - bespoke software with that capability. Use 2 PCs would be the answer to running in parallel.

Sorry if this sounds a lot - I'm just trying to emphasise that this is not a trivial task, without a massive change to configurations - and I'd rather pay for a massive change in usable abilities.

Adrian










Neil Grantham
 

Stephen


I think others have covered the implications of this adequately, such as file association to a product IE .ged files associated to FH.exe, of which there would be two such programs called that, and the enhancements to the GEDCOM file for v7 etc would just be a minefield to support.

Sure, some programs as you've mentioned allow for multiple versions, but personally, I think it's a bad idea for many reasons, principally the above, and support of legacy products should your project get messed up etc.


Certainly wouldn't want to try running 2 versions of Microsoft Office


Best Wishes


Neil.





------ Original Message ------
From: stephen.challis@...
To: family-historian@groups.io
Sent: Friday, 18 Dec, 2020 At 00:18
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

Interesting comments. Thanks.

Roxio CD creator permits (amongst other things) the editing of mp3 and other audio files. It is hardly a surprise that any audio file edited in a later version can be output and edited in an earlier version as such files are so common.

However, a video file created in Adobe Elements Premier 2020 cannot be exported to and edited in version 7 (which is 12 years old). Nevertheless, you can have both versions running on a single instance of Windows 10. The older version of Adobe Elements Premier 2020 has a feature that the newer version doesn't so I still like to use it sometimes.

I do feel that if you have paid the full price for FH7 and already paid the full price for FH6 you should have the option of keeping both (though perhaps you should be warned that you might get in a mess if you do). You have, after all, paid the full price for both versions, and I don't see that Calico Pie has the right to effectively delete a program that you have legitimately purchased without at least asking permission.

Kind regards

Stephen Challis

Please reply to Stephen.Challis@...

-----Original Message-----
From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 17 December 2020 21:30
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

Adrian, you are absolutely correct. It would be a nightmare.

Some products only support a few file types, c.f. MS Word/Excel, but FH is very different.

-----Original Message-----

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce

Sent: 17 December 2020 20:54

To: Family Historian Groups.io mailing list <family-historian@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 stand alone

>... As I bought full versions, the new version did not over-write the other. In my opinion, Calico Pie have not followed an established software convention here. ...

I'm not so sure how universal that convention is. I know that people have said that they do use software where they can happily install old and new at the same time and run them in parallel. No doubt from this that it can be made to work. Sometimes. However, for starters, you need to install the software into different directories (e.g. FH6 and

FH7) - that's an extra something that can go wrong, especially if you follow convention and allow people to decide where to install the software.

Secondly, if you think how the file association works, right now .GED files are opened by FH.EXE in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian\Program (or whatever your "Program Files" is called). If the

v7 is installed in a new folder, then, by default, all .GED files will be opened by C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian v7\Program\FH.EXE (say). That means that if you try to double click your GEDCOM 5.5 file, it *will* be opened by your v7 program and get converted to GEDCOM 5.5.1. So if you're in a situation where both are installed, you have to remember to open FH v6 first, then open the 5.5 file. And heaven help you if, as Lorna says, you open a 5.5.1 file in v6.

Furthermore, file association knock-ons *probably* go on and on. I suspect you'd not be able to download and install a new query into the

v6 FH because the extension .FHQ (is it?) will be pointing at the v7 FH. And LUA, as used by the plug-ins? That probably goes through similar linkages that start with a versionless LUA key in the registry. That's certainly what stuff looked like in the days when I could read Windows Registries. Or thought I could.

Certain standalone software items, running on an unchanged and unchangeable file format, clearly can be made to work in parallel on one machine (I'm guessing that the file format for Adobe Elements didn't change between those versions, e.g.. Or if it did, the file extension changed - cf .DOC versus .DOCX). But anything with a wider ecosystem requires a lot more hard work to have this sort of capability. In my professional career, we certainly never had - never paid for - bespoke software with that capability. Use 2 PCs would be the answer to running in parallel.

Sorry if this sounds a lot - I'm just trying to emphasise that this is not a trivial task, without a massive change to configurations - and I'd rather pay for a massive change in usable abilities.

Adrian










--
Neil Grantham
-------------------
Using FH 7 & AS 7
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow, Birchall.