Date   

Re: Family Shared Residence

Edward Sneithe
 

Thank you Mike,

That explains it well. Several years ago I played with the idea of putting the census in for every person but I didn't like the prospects of making a possible change to a census fact because I may have to change many individual census facts. With my fingers that may lead to mistakes being made.

I'm glad that my approach will continue to work.

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 11:14:31 AM EST, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:


Hi,

You are all discussing much the same concepts but there are a few misunderstandings.

 

In FH a ‘record’ has a very specific meaning that is derived from the GEDCOM specification and may be different from other products.

Every person in your Project database has one Individual ‘record’.

Couples that have a relationship such as Marriage have one Family ‘record’, and that is what the FH quote from Edward is referring to.

 

There are other types of ‘record’ for Source, Media, Places, etc, and have a dedicated tab in the Records Window.

 

What Edward is calling a ‘record’ is actually a ‘fact’ (Event or Attribute).

So when capturing a Census return you typically add a Census Event ‘fact’ to an Individual ‘record’ and cite a Source ‘record’ that may identify a Media ‘record’ with an image of the Census page.

What has also been mentioned is adding a Census (family) Event ‘fact’ to a Family ‘record’ for the couple, but that is not recommended.

 

One tactic is to give every member of the Census household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

That means every person gets the same treatment for every Census whether they are a child, adult, married, single, or whatever…

In Reports, each Census Event is listed without mention of the other household members.

 

Another tactic is to only give the head of household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

The other household members have a shared Fact Witness entry that links them to that one Census Event ‘fact’.

In Narrative Reports in particular, it is possible to mention all the members with the head of household.

It is not too repetitive, because those other members are simply mentioned in a list saying they were co-resident or whatever wording you choose.

So it might say: “John SMITH appeared in the Census of 1861 in Glasgow. Jane SMITH, Jack SMITH and Jim SMITH were co-resident.”

 

This tactic will now work for the FH V7 Census Report as all reports can now include Fact Witnesses.

But it does not currently work for the ‘Lookup Missing Census Facts’ plugin that requires one Census Event per person.

 

It is feasible to use both tactics simultaneously.

 

I hope that clarifies various details.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Re: Internet Matches - no updating in FHv7 once accepted/rejected

Paul Reeve
 

They don't clear automatically if you are using an external browser. Hover the mouse over the circle with the number of hbints and then click on the "refresh" circular arrow to the right. That should clear it (it does for me) - I am also using v6.

Paul


Re: Family Shared Residence

Mike Tate
 

Hi,

You are all discussing much the same concepts but there are a few misunderstandings.

 

In FH a ‘record’ has a very specific meaning that is derived from the GEDCOM specification and may be different from other products.

Every person in your Project database has one Individual ‘record’.

Couples that have a relationship such as Marriage have one Family ‘record’, and that is what the FH quote from Edward is referring to.

 

There are other types of ‘record’ for Source, Media, Places, etc, and have a dedicated tab in the Records Window.

 

What Edward is calling a ‘record’ is actually a ‘fact’ (Event or Attribute).

So when capturing a Census return you typically add a Census Event ‘fact’ to an Individual ‘record’ and cite a Source ‘record’ that may identify a Media ‘record’ with an image of the Census page.

What has also been mentioned is adding a Census (family) Event ‘fact’ to a Family ‘record’ for the couple, but that is not recommended.

 

One tactic is to give every member of the Census household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

That means every person gets the same treatment for every Census whether they are a child, adult, married, single, or whatever…

In Reports, each Census Event is listed without mention of the other household members.

 

Another tactic is to only give the head of household a Census Event ‘fact’ in their Individual ‘record’.

The other household members have a shared Fact Witness entry that links them to that one Census Event ‘fact’.

In Narrative Reports in particular, it is possible to mention all the members with the head of household.

It is not too repetitive, because those other members are simply mentioned in a list saying they were co-resident or whatever wording you choose.

So it might say: “John SMITH appeared in the Census of 1861 in Glasgow. Jane SMITH, Jack SMITH and Jim SMITH were co-resident.”

 

This tactic will now work for the FH V7 Census Report as all reports can now include Fact Witnesses.

But it does not currently work for the ‘Lookup Missing Census Facts’ plugin that requires one Census Event per person.

 

It is feasible to use both tactics simultaneously.

 

I hope that clarifies various details.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie Baker
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Re: Family Shared Residence

Jackie Baker <bakerjl75@...>
 

I'm also following this with interest. I was aware of the family residence bug, but I'm still slightly confused about the best approach. If I understand correctly, family facts are fine for marriage, etc.  But witnessed events work well for things like census and residence? i.e. I would make a single event for census, and then make everyone else in the household, including the spouse, a witness?  Does that work for the census report too?

Thanks,
Jackie


Re: Family Shared Residence

Debbie Kennett
 

I include the details of all the other family members in family census records in the notes so that I can control the wording. I do it in a narrative format. If you have individual census entries for each person then the reports will generate sentences for every single child in the household so you get the same text repeated for all the individuals many different times.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Edward Sneithe via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 14:07
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I looked at the help file for FH7 and see this: "Family Records are created automatically for you, when they are needed. If necessary, they are deleted automatically too. They are used to store relationship information for spouses and families, and also to record other data that applies to families - such as events like marriage and divorce. Because they are created automatically when needed, and deleted when no longer needed, there isn't usually much need to be aware of the existence of Family records."

 

I have created several facts that instead of a family record I created individual records and share them with all that are involved. A census (fam) creates a couple but I still need to add any other household members. Also the resulting sentences were not exactly what I wanted.

 

What is the actual and practical difference between a family record and an individual record that  I have shared? Do I need to reconsider my approach?

 

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 7:55:42 AM EST, Debbie Kennett <debbiekennett@...> wrote:

 

 

That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Re: Family Shared Residence

Edward Sneithe
 

I looked at the help file for FH7 and see this: "Family Records are created automatically for you, when they are needed. If necessary, they are deleted automatically too. They are used to store relationship information for spouses and families, and also to record other data that applies to families - such as events like marriage and divorce. Because they are created automatically when needed, and deleted when no longer needed, there isn't usually much need to be aware of the existence of Family records."

I have created several facts that instead of a family record I created individual records and share them with all that are involved. A census (fam) creates a couple but I still need to add any other household members. Also the resulting sentences were not exactly what I wanted.

What is the actual and practical difference between a family record and an individual record that  I have shared? Do I need to reconsider my approach?

On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 7:55:42 AM EST, Debbie Kennett <debbiekennett@...> wrote:


That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Re: Internet Matches - no updating in FHv7 once accepted/rejected

Sue Herrington
 

I am still using FH6 but an external browser for hints. I have exactly the same problem as you describe,  although the hints do sometimes clear after shutting down and re-opening. 

Sue

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, 12:39 ianpmitchell via groups.io, <ianpmitchell=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have several cases where I have new hints in FH for Findmypast, I click on them and a web page opens in Chrome and I accept/reject them. When I go back into FH they are still there but clicking on the hint takes me to a web page that says "You have new hints".

I don't remember seeing this before with V6 but then I was using the FH browser.

I have shutdown FH and it still shows new hints.

Is there feedback from the Chrome hints back to FH?


Re: Family Shared Residence

Debbie Kennett
 

That’s a relief. I think I have probably also used Family Residence. Perhaps by the time I get round to migrating the bug will have been fixed.

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:36
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Re: FH7 Citation Window

waltonnz
 

Thank you Mike. I'm really happy with what I'm seeing so far. I only installed vs7 a few hours ago, so have plenty to investigate. 
Patricia

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 01:21, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Patricia,

That is exactly the best way to arrange the display in FH V7.

 

You may not have noticed but that floating Citation window does much more than the Citation pane in FH V6.

It provides access to BOTH the Citation and the Source record for Text From Source, Notes, and Media, etc, etc.

So you don’t have to open a separate Source record window as you did in FH V6 to get to the Source record details.

 

Also, there are useful options on the cog Menu, such as Show Source Record’s Citations.

So for example with a Census Citation, it will show all the other household members sharing the same Citation.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of waltonnz
Sent: 20 January 2021 08:50
To: Family Historian <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 Citation Window

 

Thank you for your response. I've partly solved the problem by resizing the Citation window and fitting it into the lower part of the Source pane, so that it actually looks very similar to what it was before. The image below shows the result. The only thing is that, If I close the Property window, I then lose the Citation window, but just clicking the yellow scroll icon brings it up again in the same place.

Patricia

 

 

 

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 21:31, <whitbennrm@...> wrote:

Hi Patricia.  I have just upgraded to Version 7 as well and have exactly the same wish. I found it so much better to be able to add and see clearly the citation note below. Hopefully this will be possible. I look forward to seeing suggestions from the usual very helpful experts. 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Problem with Sources

Mike Tate
 

Patricia, you can retrieve your customise Property Box tab by following the advice in the FH Help > Family Historian Help > Notes on Upgrading to Version 7 under Important Notes on Restoring Property Box Customizations.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of waltonnz
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:24
To: Family Historian <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Problem with Sources

 

Thank you Lorna and Mike for your help. I had discovered the answer to my problem, but thanks anyway. I positioned the floating Citation window over the bottom of the Sources For pane as it makes it look like the layout I had  in FH6. I like what I have now. I was reluctant to install FH7 as there were so many users finding problems. So far I haven't found any problems with FH7 except there's a customised tab missing from my Property Box, but that's not really important. I'm just using the Sources and Citations in the way I've always done, taking the advice of the experts to leave the Source Templates alone for the time being. I love the new Word Processing features for notes. Altogether I've very happy with vs 7.

Patricia

 

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 00:17, Lorna Craig via groups.io <l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:

Correction: you can still see the toolbar, below where you have positioned the Citation window.

 

From: Lorna Craig via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 11:02
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Problem with Sources

 

In your screenshot I can see that you have positioned the floating Citation Window over the bottom of the ‘Sources for’ pane, obscuring the toolbar for that pane.  If you move the citation window you will see the toolbar in the ‘Sources for ‘ pane has a cog wheel icon.  Click this icon and choose Display Citation As.. and then choose Source Record.  You should now see the name of the Source record displayed.

 

Lorna

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: web pages

Mike Tate
 

Have you checked the Options on the Pictures tab on the wizard Step 3? Especially the Individual Picture Options bottom left.

They are not necessarily the same as the standard Individual Summary or Family Group Sheet.

See Publish > Miscellaneous Reports > ISR/Family Group Sheet (for Web, CD or DVD).

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of michaellee508 via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 10:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] web pages

 

I am trying to produce a family web page using the standard FH v7 web page. I am not able to get the pictures I want into the Summary report for the web either individual or family but when I try the same thing on the same standalone reports all is OK .

The problem only occurs I think when there is a photo with more than one link. I get a photograph but not the one I want despite making sure the photo I want Is number 1 in the preferences and the options are set at use normal order of preferences or the other 2 options. One of the photos is a large group with a lot of links and none of them come up but it also applies with just 2 links.

What am I missing  

 

Michael Lee


Internet Matches - no updating in FHv7 once accepted/rejected

ianpmitchell@...
 

I have several cases where I have new hints in FH for Findmypast, I click on them and a web page opens in Chrome and I accept/reject them. When I go back into FH they are still there but clicking on the hint takes me to a web page that says "You have new hints".

I don't remember seeing this before with V6 but then I was using the FH browser.

I have shutdown FH and it still shows new hints.

Is there feedback from the Chrome hints back to FH?


Re: Family Shared Residence

colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Family Census is supported, but Family Residence (as Mike said) was overlooked.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Debbie Kennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 12:33
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett


Re: Family Shared Residence

Debbie Kennett
 

I haven’t yet explored migrating to FH V7. I have always dealt with censuses as family events as I find that this is the best way of producing narrative reports that are not too repetitive. Is this no longer going to work in FH7?

 

Debbie Kennett

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 20 January 2021 11:00
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Welcome to FH David.

 

Unfortunately, FH V7 has overlooked implementing the shared Family Residence fact.
There is a bug report submitted by mostly other RM migrants awaiting fixing.

What you will find is an Unrecognised Data Field (UDF) with tag * _RESI that is shown on the All tab of the Family record.

 

However, FH users tend to avoid shared Family facts except those that specifically apply to the couple such as Engagement, Marriage & Divorce.

The explanation is that typically other household members are involved such as children or grandparents and the Family facts do not include those.

So usually we use Individual standard Census and Residence facts for every person in the household.

Such facts are tied together by the same Source Citation.

That tactic is well supported by other FH tools such as the Census Report, the Ancestral Sources program, and various Plugins.

 

Another popular tactic is to have one Individual Census or Residence fact for the head of household and shared Fact Witnesses for all the others.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 19 January 2021 21:42
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Family Shared Residence

 

Hi

 

I am very new to family historian and can’t find out how to add a shared family residence for husband and wife sourced from a UK census.

 

My other software is RootsMagic and in that I can just add a shared residence.

 

All the data I have imported from RM via GEDCOM has copied over, so I get for example Sources for ‘Marr. (John): Residence*’.  For new residences I try to add it seems to be an individual fact only.

 

What don’t I understand about shared facts?

 

The help doesn’t help much.

 

Regards

 

David Hodgson-Brown

 


Re: Problem with Sources

waltonnz
 

Thank you Lorna and Mike for your help. I had discovered the answer to my problem, but thanks anyway. I positioned the floating Citation window over the bottom of the Sources For pane as it makes it look like the layout I had  in FH6. I like what I have now. I was reluctant to install FH7 as there were so many users finding problems. So far I haven't found any problems with FH7 except there's a customised tab missing from my Property Box, but that's not really important. I'm just using the Sources and Citations in the way I've always done, taking the advice of the experts to leave the Source Templates alone for the time being. I love the new Word Processing features for notes. Altogether I've very happy with vs 7.
Patricia

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 at 00:17, Lorna Craig via groups.io <l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:

Correction: you can still see the toolbar, below where you have positioned the Citation window.

 

From: Lorna Craig via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 11:02
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Problem with Sources

 

In your screenshot I can see that you have positioned the floating Citation Window over the bottom of the ‘Sources for’ pane, obscuring the toolbar for that pane.  If you move the citation window you will see the toolbar in the ‘Sources for ‘ pane has a cog wheel icon.  Click this icon and choose Display Citation As.. and then choose Source Record.  You should now see the name of the Source record displayed.

 

Lorna

 

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


web pages

michaellee508@...
 

I am trying to produce a family web page using the standard FH v7 web page. I am not able to get the pictures I want into the Summary report for the web either individual or family but when I try the same thing on the same standalone reports all is OK .

The problem only occurs I think when there is a photo with more than one link. I get a photograph but not the one I want despite making sure the photo I want Is number 1 in the preferences and the options are set at use normal order of preferences or the other 2 options. One of the photos is a large group with a lot of links and none of them come up but it also applies with just 2 links.

What am I missing  

 

Michael Lee


Re: FH7 Citation Window

Mike Tate
 

Patricia,

That is exactly the best way to arrange the display in FH V7.

 

You may not have noticed but that floating Citation window does much more than the Citation pane in FH V6.

It provides access to BOTH the Citation and the Source record for Text From Source, Notes, and Media, etc, etc.

So you don’t have to open a separate Source record window as you did in FH V6 to get to the Source record details.

 

Also, there are useful options on the cog Menu, such as Show Source Record’s Citations.

So for example with a Census Citation, it will show all the other household members sharing the same Citation.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of waltonnz
Sent: 20 January 2021 08:50
To: Family Historian <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] FH7 Citation Window

 

Thank you for your response. I've partly solved the problem by resizing the Citation window and fitting it into the lower part of the Source pane, so that it actually looks very similar to what it was before. The image below shows the result. The only thing is that, If I close the Property window, I then lose the Citation window, but just clicking the yellow scroll icon brings it up again in the same place.

Patricia

 

 

 

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 21:31, <whitbennrm@...> wrote:

Hi Patricia.  I have just upgraded to Version 7 as well and have exactly the same wish. I found it so much better to be able to add and see clearly the citation note below. Hopefully this will be possible. I look forward to seeing suggestions from the usual very helpful experts. 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Problem with Sources

waltonnz
 

I've found the answer. It was an option at the bottom of the sources pane.
Patricia

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 22:50, waltonnz via groups.io <walton.patricia=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I seem to be getting the wrong information in the Source pane. Under Sources For - Name it should say 1901 Census, not RG13 which is Where Within Source. I have the same problem with all the source information I've checked so far. Is there a way to fix this please?
Patricia

image.png

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: V7 text format problem in Report

Mike Tate
 

Hi Richard,

Have you double-checked that every paragraph of text in the Note has the Justify icon enabled?

 

You may need to post a screenshot of both the Note box and the Report for us to understand what is happening.

However, be aware that attaching screenshots to these Email may suffer a significant delay as they are manually vetted by administrators.

You get a much faster turn round in the FHUG Forum that does not manually vet attachments.

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Whitchurch-Bennett
Sent: 20 January 2021 09:28
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] V7 text format problem in Report

 

I have chosen the Justify text format in the Individual Note field, but when I produce the (say) Individual Summary Report, most of the text appears justified but other parts of the same paragraph appear aligned left.  Is this a problem with V7 ?

 

Richard Whitchurch-Bennett

 

 

 


Re: Problem with Sources

Mike Tate
 

Lorna is mistaken about your Citation window obscuring the toolbar at the bottom.

The cog wheel icon is the one next to the large blue arrow.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lorna Craig via groups.io
Sent: 20 January 2021 11:02
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Problem with Sources

 

In your screenshot I can see that you have positioned the floating Citation Window over the bottom of the ‘Sources for’ pane, obscuring the toolbar for that pane.  If you move the citation window you will see the toolbar in the ‘Sources for ‘ pane has a cog wheel icon.  Click this icon and choose Display Citation As.. and then choose Source Record.  You should now see the name of the Source record displayed.

 

Lorna

 

From: waltonnz
Sent: 20 January 2021 09:50
To: Family Historian
Subject: [family-historian] Problem with Sources

 

I seem to be getting the wrong information in the Source pane. Under Sources For - Name it should say 1901 Census, not RG13 which is Where Within Source. I have the same problem with all the source information I've checked so far. Is there a way to fix this please?

Patricia

 

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