Date   

Re: How to handle Illegitimate Births

stephen.challis@...
 

My interest is in blood lines, so I would have him as David Jones but might generate an aka field and add the ‘David Bloggs’ name there. I would also reference this in my accompanying notes.

 

I’m interested to see others’ replies, too!

 

Stephen Challis

 

From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of johnfirr via groups.io
Sent: 25 April 2022 17:38
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How to handle Illegitimate Births

 

Thanks for all the repies, fascinating and in the scenario I explained at the start the two families approach definitely works well ( and I note puts a handy little blank box in the chart which makes spotting these nice and easy). However here is another scenario ( a real one from my tree but some of the individuals may still be alive so names are fictitious.

How would you represent this:

Harry Smith marries Debbie Jones and they have a son David Jones.
Harry and Debbie then divorce.
Debbie Smith nee Jones now marries Fred Bloggs
Fred Bloggs adopts David Jones who now gets brought up as David Bloggs.

Where do you put David on FH as son to birth father and mother or as son to birth mother and adopted father?

Interested to see replies

John F


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Vyger
 

David,

You are probably aware relation Addresses to the Place is already in other software and I agree it needs to be part of FH. I have new migrants from Rootsmagic who pull down the Address list noticing that Greenlawn Cemetery has several entries but not relational to any particular Place.

Not a lot of London entries in my DB but London is the square mile to me and I always note the Hamlet (sub division) for greater mapping accuracy followed by Address (site)

A large percentage of my studies are in Ireland where I choose to use the Parish as the Place name and the Townland as the Address, luckily there are ~65k Townlands in Ireland and the boundaries have remained mostly unchanged for the last 800 years. Interestingly I remember in the early days of IGI fische these names were noted although unfamiliar to me then, locals still refer to them now (not townies)

Heredis 2021 does an interesting grab in mapping where it displays the Place shaded then another tab attempts to list all the sub divisions for selection. They use Openstreetmap like FH and all the Townlands of Ireland are defined on Openstreetmap.

Bottom line is online mapping has moved on in leaps and bounds and CP have several other implementations to study before introducing the feature.

Brave new world, 

Jackson

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 17:42 uhkh3tsccmz9@..., <uhkh3tsccmz9@...> wrote:
Within FH I tend to view a "place" as an "area" on a map, whilst an "address" is a "point" on a map.

"The Ship was sunk in the Bristol Channel (Area - place), It's wreck is marked by the RMS xxxxx Wreck Buoy (point - address)"
"I lived in County Durham (Area - place), my flat was opposite Durham Cathedral (point - address)"

On Google Maps compare:
The pity is that other mapping facilities won't do the same. If I was born in London (place) but actually in a flat (address) in Tower Hamlets, I'm not sure I would want my birth place marked by a map pin in say the Mansion House! An area (either London - bit big - or Tower Hamlets) would be more acceptable because a shaded area conveys something about precision. A map-pin on the actual address would also convey honest precision.

The problem in FH and probably elsewhere is that uniquely defining an address requires reference to the place where that address is and the "address" field currently cannot link to a "place" - although given that it is a non standard enhancement, I don't see why we should not eventually have a further enhancement and be able to enter a place and then be offered (by pull down list) all the addresses already associated with that place with an option to "add an address".

David


Re: How to handle Illegitimate Births

Mike Tate
 

In FH you can do both, and record the Alternate Name with a citation as advised in the FHUG Knowledge Base:

‘Recording Children with Foster/Adoptive Parents’

‘How to Handle People With Multiple Names’

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of johnfirr via groups.io
Sent: 25 April 2022 17:38
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How to handle Illegitimate Births

 

Thanks for all the repies, fascinating and in the scenario I explained at the start the two families approach definitely works well ( and I note puts a handy little blank box in the chart which makes spotting these nice and easy). However here is another scenario ( a real one from my tree but some of the individuals may still be alive so names are fictitious.

How would you represent this:

Harry Smith marries Debbie Jones and they have a son David Jones.
Harry and Debbie then divorce.
Debbie Smith nee Jones now marries Fred Bloggs
Fred Bloggs adopts David Jones who now gets brought up as David Bloggs.

Where do you put David on FH as son to birth father and mother or as son to birth mother and adopted father?

Interested to see replies

John F


Re: How to handle Illegitimate Births

Victor Markham
 

I stick to the birth name. At the top right of the focus window is a + sign or does it say more (I am not at my computer so can't check) I prompt this and it opens a menu which let's you add extra information like 'known as' here you put the new surname and use that if you prefer

On 25 Apr 2022, at 17:38, "johnfirr via groups.io" <yahoo.co.uk@groups.io target=_blank>johnfirr=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for all the repies, fascinating and in the scenario I explained at the start the two families approach definitely works well ( and I note puts a handy little blank box in the chart which makes spotting these nice and easy). However here is another scenario ( a real one from my tree but some of the individuals may still be alive so names are fictitious.

How would you represent this:

Harry Smith marries Debbie Jones and they have a son David Jones.
Harry and Debbie then divorce.
Debbie Smith nee Jones now marries Fred Bloggs
Fred Bloggs adopts David Jones who now gets brought up as David Bloggs.

Where do you put David on FH as son to birth father and mother or as son to birth mother and adopted father?

Interested to see replies

John F


Re: How to handle Illegitimate Births

colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

In an analogous situation, I’ve recorded my sister with two sets of parents, one set by birth (mother and unknown father) and one set by adoption (mother and subsequent husband).

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of johnfirr via groups.io
Sent: 25 April 2022 17:38
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How to handle Illegitimate Births

 

Thanks for all the repies, fascinating and in the scenario I explained at the start the two families approach definitely works well ( and I note puts a handy little blank box in the chart which makes spotting these nice and easy). However here is another scenario ( a real one from my tree but some of the individuals may still be alive so names are fictitious.

How would you represent this:

Harry Smith marries Debbie Jones and they have a son David Jones.
Harry and Debbie then divorce.
Debbie Smith nee Jones now marries Fred Bloggs
Fred Bloggs adopts David Jones who now gets brought up as David Bloggs.

Where do you put David on FH as son to birth father and mother or as son to birth mother and adopted father?

Interested to see replies

John F

_._,_._,_


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

uhkh3tsccmz9@beconfidential.com
 

Within FH I tend to view a "place" as an "area" on a map, whilst an "address" is a "point" on a map.

"The Ship was sunk in the Bristol Channel (Area - place), It's wreck is marked by the RMS xxxxx Wreck Buoy (point - address)"
"I lived in County Durham (Area - place), my flat was opposite Durham Cathedral (point - address)"

On Google Maps compare:
The pity is that other mapping facilities won't do the same. If I was born in London (place) but actually in a flat (address) in Tower Hamlets, I'm not sure I would want my birth place marked by a map pin in say the Mansion House! An area (either London - bit big - or Tower Hamlets) would be more acceptable because a shaded area conveys something about precision. A map-pin on the actual address would also convey honest precision.

The problem in FH and probably elsewhere is that uniquely defining an address requires reference to the place where that address is and the "address" field currently cannot link to a "place" - although given that it is a non standard enhancement, I don't see why we should not eventually have a further enhancement and be able to enter a place and then be offered (by pull down list) all the addresses already associated with that place with an option to "add an address".

David


Re: How to handle Illegitimate Births

johnfirr@...
 

Thanks for all the repies, fascinating and in the scenario I explained at the start the two families approach definitely works well ( and I note puts a handy little blank box in the chart which makes spotting these nice and easy). However here is another scenario ( a real one from my tree but some of the individuals may still be alive so names are fictitious.

How would you represent this:

Harry Smith marries Debbie Jones and they have a son David Jones.
Harry and Debbie then divorce.
Debbie Smith nee Jones now marries Fred Bloggs
Fred Bloggs adopts David Jones who now gets brought up as David Bloggs.

Where do you put David on FH as son to birth father and mother or as son to birth mother and adopted father?

Interested to see replies

John F


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Debbie Kennett
 

I’ve got a few people who died at sea but for whom I have no exact location.

 

Ancestry trees only have a field for location and don’t distinguish between address and place. There seem to be no easy solutions to standardisation of place names and addresses.

 

Debbie Kennett

 


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Adrian Bruce
 

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 at 13:18, David Hodgson-Brown <dave@...> wrote:
...

I am not definitely going to do this, but reading the information on Gedcom 7 from the LDS I think it is implying that ‘Place’ is more like a legal entity, whereas the address is definitely one that can be used as a postal address so needs to be compete.

...


As Mike says, nothing has materially changed in ages in those definitions. IIRC, the Place is supposed to be a Jurisdiction and the Address is a Postal Address.  The problem is that an exact following of those concepts leads to all sorts of issues in my view. For instance - how do you encode a mountain? This was an issue for someone trying to record where people died in a plane crash while still following the exact GEDCOM specification. The mountain isn't a jurisdiction, so it couldn't go in the place-name. But did it qualify as a postal address? Could you send a letter there? Probably not...

I, like Mike, would be far more concerned about how other people have used those two items - they are, after all, the targets for your software. And on that topic you should understand that FamilySearch FamilyTree very definitely doesn't follow the split of Place and Address. FSFT has a database of standard place-names, most of which are jurisdictions but some of which are churches, cemeteries, etc - the sort of thing that many of us would put in the address - as well as towns and villages that aren't jurisdictions . It would therefore seem likely to me that if there is a change in GEDCOM in the future, it will shift towards a much looser interpretation of those items (FSFT being the later thing).

Adrian
 


Re: Note Records

Doug Byway
 

Thanks, Mike.
There were many so I deleted all with zero links  using the Named List method.
Regards Doug

Sent from Outlook


From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Tate <post@...>
Sent: 25 April 2022 12:35
To: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Note Records
 

Doug,

 

1. Whether they are a problem is somewhat subjective.

They do no harm, especially if they have no text or 0 Links, but they consume a small amount of space and may be a distraction.

 

2. Have you imported your Project from some other product in the past?

That is the most likely cause.

 

3. See FHUG Knowledge Base ‘Delete One or Many Records’

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/delete-one-or-many-records/

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Doug Byway
Sent: 25 April 2022 13:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Note Records

 

Hello
I am in the process of cleaning my FH project, and I notice that in the Records window for 'Notes' there are many records with no Description and/or links = 0'
1. Are these a problem?
2. What  causes these to be generated?
3. As they appear to be spurious, how do I delete them?
Regards
Doug


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Vyger
 

David,

I religiously remove superfluous address information from the place entity and did this since the feature was released in Rootsmagic 4 maybe 14 years ago.

I believe it makes for more concise place recording and better hint accuracy so made sense to me. However at present I cannot geo-code, attach media and notes to addresses in Family Historian although I believe this will come within V7.

The reason I say that is these enhanced site components have become less of a niche and more mainstream in competitor software. And let's face it every WDYTYA program (and the like) the subject want to stand on the site of their ancestor and know a little history of the Church or building and a photograph if available.

Geographic clusters (within places) have also given me valuable clues in my research, for now this is the last thing I maintain outside FH but hopefully not for long. If your site and place strings are combined at present I would suggest beefing them up in preparation for a likely split utility if/when FH make the enhancement available.

Jackson

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 13:18 David Hodgson-Brown, <dave@...> wrote:

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I am not definitely going to do this, but reading the information on Gedcom 7 from the LDS I think it is implying that ‘Place’ is more like a legal entity, whereas the address is definitely one that can be used as a postal address so needs to be compete.

 

David

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 25 April 2022 10:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

 

Hi David,

The first thing to do is use Tools > Work with Data > Addresses and increase the number of Columns to 10 (or whatever you think you need).

You must decide how columns need to be reserved for Addresses.

Let us assume 5 for sake of argument. i.e. None of your Addresses needs more than 5 columns.

It also assumes that none of your Places needs more than 5 columns, because Address columns + Place columns must be no more than 10.

 

Run the Plugin and note that Address 1 to Address 5 will remain unchanged to Address columns intact.

In the Address 6 drop list select Place 1.

In the Address 7 drop list select Place 2.

and so on until

In the Address 10 drop list select Place 5.

 

That is it.

 

BTW: Why do you think this rearrangement is a good idea?

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 25 April 2022 09:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

 

Hi All

 

I would like to add the place to all my address entries. It must be my ‘senior moment’, but I can’t work out how to set this up in the plugin. Can anybody help please.

 

Thanks

 

David

 


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Mike Tate
 

David,

 

Although given better structural definitions in GEDCOM v7.0 the concepts of ‘Place’ and ‘Address’ have not changed in GEDCOM specifications for decades.

What is more important is how ‘Place’ and ‘Address’ fields are handled in genealogy products such as FH.

There is crucial advice in the FHUG Knowledge Base for ‘Working with Places and Addresses’:

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/working-with-places-and-addresses-for-new-users/

The ‘Overlapping Places and Addresses’ section discusses your proposed rearrangement.

 

Mike Tate

 


Re: Note Records

Mike Tate
 

Doug,

 

1. Whether they are a problem is somewhat subjective.

They do no harm, especially if they have no text or 0 Links, but they consume a small amount of space and may be a distraction.

 

2. Have you imported your Project from some other product in the past?

That is the most likely cause.

 

3. See FHUG Knowledge Base ‘Delete One or Many Records’

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/delete-one-or-many-records/

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Doug Byway
Sent: 25 April 2022 13:14
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Note Records

 

Hello
I am in the process of cleaning my FH project, and I notice that in the Records window for 'Notes' there are many records with no Description and/or links = 0'
1. Are these a problem?
2. What  causes these to be generated?
3. As they appear to be spurious, how do I delete them?
Regards
Doug


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

David Hodgson-Brown
 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I am not definitely going to do this, but reading the information on Gedcom 7 from the LDS I think it is implying that ‘Place’ is more like a legal entity, whereas the address is definitely one that can be used as a postal address so needs to be compete.

 

David

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 25 April 2022 10:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

 

Hi David,

The first thing to do is use Tools > Work with Data > Addresses and increase the number of Columns to 10 (or whatever you think you need).

You must decide how columns need to be reserved for Addresses.

Let us assume 5 for sake of argument. i.e. None of your Addresses needs more than 5 columns.

It also assumes that none of your Places needs more than 5 columns, because Address columns + Place columns must be no more than 10.

 

Run the Plugin and note that Address 1 to Address 5 will remain unchanged to Address columns intact.

In the Address 6 drop list select Place 1.

In the Address 7 drop list select Place 2.

and so on until

In the Address 10 drop list select Place 5.

 

That is it.

 

BTW: Why do you think this rearrangement is a good idea?

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 25 April 2022 09:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

 

Hi All

 

I would like to add the place to all my address entries. It must be my ‘senior moment’, but I can’t work out how to set this up in the plugin. Can anybody help please.

 

Thanks

 

David

 


Note Records

Doug Byway
 

Hello
I am in the process of cleaning my FH project, and I notice that in the Records window for 'Notes' there are many records with no Description and/or links = 0'
1. Are these a problem?
2. What  causes these to be generated?
3. As they appear to be spurious, how do I delete them?
Regards
Doug


Re: Ancestral Sources

Doug Byway
 

Thank-you Nick.
I suspected it was to do with the recording method, but didn't know where to change it.
Regards
Doug

Sent from Outlook


From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> on behalf of Nick Walker (Ancestral Sources) <nick@...>
Sent: 25 April 2022 10:19
To: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Ancestral Sources
 
Hi Doug

If you're expecting the Source field not to be greyed out then that suggests you usually use 'recording method 2'. The default (and recommended) setting for Ancestral Sources (and this is also true of Family Historian) is Method 1 so if you use Method 2 you'll need to change that in the Ancestral Sources settings. Method 1 (also know as 'splitter' method) is where a new source is created for every census household with images attached, etc. In this method the citations(links between facts and sources) are usually blank (so don't contain entry date and where within source) as that information is stored in the source. Method 2 (also known as the 'lumper' method) is where you may have just a small number of sources called, e.g. Census 1881 England and information is recorded in the citation instead. Assessment is also an options that you would need to specify if you want this recorded. So really what you should do is compare the AS settings on your laptop with the settings on your PC on a page by page basis.

Cheers

Nick

On 25/04/2022 11:04 Doug Byway <doug_byway@...> wrote:


Hello,
I am having problems using the Census input for Ancestral Sources on my new laptop.
It's operating system is Windows 11.
I have downloaded the latest version of AS and the problem I am experiencing is that the 'Source' field is greyed out, and the only way I can choose my Census year is to enter it in the appropriate field along with country.
My Project details have been entered, and display for selection of individuals, in the appropriate section of the screen.
When I enter the  Census details and save the record, the Individuals' facts are updated OK but the Source info. for the census entries are not showing an 'Entry date', 'Assessment' nor a 'Where within source' entry.
I was using AS version 7.3.3 on my old laptop, which was working OK.
I copied this version to my new laptop, and got the same results as with the latest version outlined above.

Is the problem with Windows 11, or does it lie within my FH Project, which is working OK in all other respects.
I suspect that somehow I have caused this problem, so any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks in anticipation!
Doug Byway


Re: Ancestral Sources

Mike Tate
 

Doug,

Have you migrated your AS settings from old PC to new PC (as you presumably did for FH)?

See FHUG Knowledge Base ‘Ancestral Sources Migration Guide’

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources-migration-guide/

 

Mike Tate

 


Re: Ancestral Sources

Nick Walker (Ancestral Sources)
 

Hi Doug

If you're expecting the Source field not to be greyed out then that suggests you usually use 'recording method 2'. The default (and recommended) setting for Ancestral Sources (and this is also true of Family Historian) is Method 1 so if you use Method 2 you'll need to change that in the Ancestral Sources settings. Method 1 (also know as 'splitter' method) is where a new source is created for every census household with images attached, etc. In this method the citations(links between facts and sources) are usually blank (so don't contain entry date and where within source) as that information is stored in the source. Method 2 (also known as the 'lumper' method) is where you may have just a small number of sources called, e.g. Census 1881 England and information is recorded in the citation instead. Assessment is also an options that you would need to specify if you want this recorded. So really what you should do is compare the AS settings on your laptop with the settings on your PC on a page by page basis.

Cheers

Nick

On 25/04/2022 11:04 Doug Byway <doug_byway@...> wrote:


Hello,
I am having problems using the Census input for Ancestral Sources on my new laptop.
It's operating system is Windows 11.
I have downloaded the latest version of AS and the problem I am experiencing is that the 'Source' field is greyed out, and the only way I can choose my Census year is to enter it in the appropriate field along with country.
My Project details have been entered, and display for selection of individuals, in the appropriate section of the screen.
When I enter the  Census details and save the record, the Individuals' facts are updated OK but the Source info. for the census entries are not showing an 'Entry date', 'Assessment' nor a 'Where within source' entry.
I was using AS version 7.3.3 on my old laptop, which was working OK.
I copied this version to my new laptop, and got the same results as with the latest version outlined above.

Is the problem with Windows 11, or does it lie within my FH Project, which is working OK in all other respects.
I suspect that somehow I have caused this problem, so any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks in anticipation!
Doug Byway


Ancestral Sources

Doug Byway
 

Hello,
I am having problems using the Census input for Ancestral Sources on my new laptop.
It's operating system is Windows 11.
I have downloaded the latest version of AS and the problem I am experiencing is that the 'Source' field is greyed out, and the only way I can choose my Census year is to enter it in the appropriate field along with country.
My Project details have been entered, and display for selection of individuals, in the appropriate section of the screen.
When I enter the  Census details and save the record, the Individuals' facts are updated OK but the Source info. for the census entries are not showing an 'Entry date', 'Assessment' nor a 'Where within source' entry.
I was using AS version 7.3.3 on my old laptop, which was working OK.
I copied this version to my new laptop, and got the same results as with the latest version outlined above.

Is the problem with Windows 11, or does it lie within my FH Project, which is working OK in all other respects.
I suspect that somehow I have caused this problem, so any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks in anticipation!
Doug Byway


Re: Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

Mike Tate
 

Hi David,

The first thing to do is use Tools > Work with Data > Addresses and increase the number of Columns to 10 (or whatever you think you need).

You must decide how columns need to be reserved for Addresses.

Let us assume 5 for sake of argument. i.e. None of your Addresses needs more than 5 columns.

It also assumes that none of your Places needs more than 5 columns, because Address columns + Place columns must be no more than 10.

 

Run the Plugin and note that Address 1 to Address 5 will remain unchanged to Address columns intact.

In the Address 6 drop list select Place 1.

In the Address 7 drop list select Place 2.

and so on until

In the Address 10 drop list select Place 5.

 

That is it.

 

BTW: Why do you think this rearrangement is a good idea?

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Hodgson-Brown
Sent: 25 April 2022 09:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Rearrange Address and Places Parts Plugin

 

Hi All

 

I would like to add the place to all my address entries. It must be my ‘senior moment’, but I can’t work out how to set this up in the plugin. Can anybody help please.

 

Thanks

 

David

 

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