Date   

Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

Mike Tate
 

Regarding keeping the Source Citation windows (and any other windows) open from FH session to session see the FHUG Wish List.

That has a request for such a feature that if you sign-in to FHUG you can Vote for:

https://www.fhug.org.uk/wishlist/wldisplay.php?wlwlref=534

Ref 534 Preserve all Workspace and Window Characteristics

 

Mike Tate

 


Re: Unlinked Projects

James Pam
 

Thank you Mike. I now have my project back. Lesson learnt!! I had moved the sample project out of the FH project folder but moving it back solved that problem.

James 




Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

Miriam Smith
 

First - many thanks to BillH for his instructions as they were brilliant.  Mike - I have got the "Source Citations" box with the info that i want it to contain but i can't make it small enough to fit in the blank space without losing the important info that i like to see. I don't like it floating as it just gets in the way of the main data.  There is info there i don't really want to see - such as the Source Record ID and how many times it has been used, and also the bit that is grayed out at the bottom.  I know the one which i have screendumped only has 1 citation, but I have some facts which have half a dozen.  Previously it was a doddle to ensure that the most important source was at the top of the list and that was easy to see when clicking through the list.  In the meantime, I've moved it across to that space area and closed it, so that i only have to double click it to open it, but then I still have to close it afterwards as it gets in the way.  Many thanks for the help, Miriam


Re: How do I add a donor conceived child?

Jenny Cochrane
 

Wow, must have been a shock but I'm sure it's more common than you think!

In terms of mapping your family, this is my suggestion. It's not very elegant, but I reckon it works. Might be worth putting in a request to Calico Pie to see if a "donor" flag can be added.

You can have as many sets of parents as you like in FH. Just click on the "parent" icon in the property box and then "add set". So I would add your biological father as an extra parent and link your mother as a "spouse". She will still be the spouse of your de facto father and the donor will appear as an extra spouse,  with an "unmarried" flag and explanatory note.

Then you can add your 1/2 and donor siblings as children of your bio father each with their mother as his "spouse" with appropriate flags. They should then all show up in your tree and your children should be appropriately linked.

Hope that works or somebody can come up with a neater option.

Jenny

On Monday, 31 May 2021, 06:52:57 BST, Noslien90@... <noslien90@...> wrote:


Hi all - So, a week ago as part of starting my family tree  I learned I was donor conceived, at the ripe old age of 31. Bit of a shock to the system, but the positive is I have even more family to map out. 

Would anyone be able to assist with how this should be entered into FH? I can’t find any help sections on it, and I guess it’s something that probably doesn’t come up much.

I have added my biological father as an ‘unrelated person’ and then added me as a son and changed our relationship to ‘birth’ which seems to work. I’m not quite sure though how to the enter my four other donor conceived half siblings, as well as my biological dads four daughters. The other issue is, when I map the family tree out for my daughter or son, it only shows my mother and defacto father’s tree above them, not the donors family (which is their biological family).

Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

Chris 


How do I add a donor conceived child?

Noslien90@...
 

Hi all - So, a week ago as part of starting my family tree  I learned I was donor conceived, at the ripe old age of 31. Bit of a shock to the system, but the positive is I have even more family to map out. 

Would anyone be able to assist with how this should be entered into FH? I can’t find any help sections on it, and I guess it’s something that probably doesn’t come up much.

I have added my biological father as an ‘unrelated person’ and then added me as a son and changed our relationship to ‘birth’ which seems to work. I’m not quite sure though how to the enter my four other donor conceived half siblings, as well as my biological dads four daughters. The other issue is, when I map the family tree out for my daughter or son, it only shows my mother and defacto father’s tree above them, not the donors family (which is their biological family).

Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

Chris 


Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

BillH
 

Debbie,

No.  When opening Family Historian it isn't open until I select a field that does have a citation.  What I do is click on the field and then click on the yellow scroll icon in the property box.  This opens the citation list pane.  I then select a citation and click on the icon with the yellow scroll and pencil at the bottom of the citation list pane which opens the citation window.  Sometimes one or both will disappear when I do different things in FH, but I can always get them back by doing one of both of these things.  I just like this layout rather than having the citation window floating over the focus window or property box which obscures too much for my taste.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 03:35 PM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie



Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

Debbie Kennett
 

Thanks Bill. That’s worked nicely. Have you found a way to keep the source box permanently open rather than having to click on it every time you start work?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 21:58
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie


Re: Unlinked Projects

Mike Tate
 

James,

What worries me is you say you “moved some fh folders to a different location”.

If you have not moved them all together then it may not be possible to get FH to see your Projects at all.

In that case, you will have to move those some fh folders back where they came from or recover from your backups.

 

Yes, you click blue 'my documents/family historian projects' link and select ‘Choose Location’.

You must choose the ‘Family Historian Projects’ folder in its new location wherever you moved it to.

That folder must contain the ‘Pam family’ folder and that must contain the 'Pam family.fh_proj’ file and ‘Pam family.fh_data’ folder, which must hold the ‘Pam family.ged’ file and various folders including ‘Media’.

 

If any of those files and folders are not correctly organised then FH will not recognise your ‘Pam family’ project.

There is an example of the structure in the FHUG Knowledge Base in Understanding Projects.

 

Let this be a warning. Do NOT reorganise the ‘Family Historian Projects’ folder structure.

 

Mike Tate


Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

BillH
 

Debbie,

In Preferences select Property Box and half way down is "Preferred Position for Citation List Pane".  Set those options to "Open in New Window".

The Citation List Pane is the actual name of the Sources for window.

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 10:12 AM Debbie Kennett wrote:

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 17:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.

 



Unlinked Projects

James Pam
 

Stupidly I reorganised my files and moved some fh folders to a different location. Not surprisingly there are are now no projects showing in the Project window.
I have FH7.  Please advise the best way of restoring my projects.
I think I need to click the blue 'my documents/family historian projects'. It then asks me whether I want to 'Choose location' or 'Reset location to installation.
default.'  Do I choose one of these? Is that the route back to sanity?
What files do I need to select? Is it just the gedcom file? If so is it 'Pam family.fh_proj or Pam family.fh_data which has a number of folders and a gedcom - Pam family.ged
I backup my projects to Onedrive and to my computer hard drive. Where should I be pointing my project window too?
Thank you in anticipation.


Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

Debbie Kennett
 

Bill

 

I like the look of your layout.

 

How did you manage to get “Sources for…” box to be a floating window?

 

Debbie

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of BillH
Sent: 30 May 2021 17:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.

 


Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

BillH
 

If you look at this post on the FHUG forum, you can see what I did to make it look more like it did in FH 6.  This may work for you.  If you scroll down in the forum post you will see a screen shot of my layout.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19000

Bill

On May 30 2021, at 12:20 AM Mim Smith wrote:

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


Re: "Citation Specific Details" Box

Mike Tate
 

Hi Min,

You are not the first to have that problem when switching from FH v6 to FH v7.

However, once you get used to the new technique most find it better than in FH v6.

 

As you say, the initial yellow Citation List pane now only lists the Source Citations but no Citation specific details.

You must click its Edit Source Citation button lower left to open the floating yellow Citation window.

 

That Citation window shows both the Source record and the Citation-specific details together, which is often more convenient than having to switch to the Source record as was necessary in FH v6. Also, that floating Citation window can be left open (just like the Fact Witnesses window) so next time you select a Source the details appear without needing an extra click.

 

What some users do is adjust the size and position of that Citation window so it sits over the unused part of the yellow Citation List pane where the Citation specific details used to appear in FH v6.

 

Others use Tools > Preferences > Property Box and change the Preferred Position for Citation List Pane to Open in New Window.

Then that can float outside the main FH window and be reduced in size to avoid the unused white expanse.

The floating Citation window can be adjusted to sit just below the Citation List Pane window.

 

You then have a setup that is very similar to FH v6 but the Citation window now lists not just Citation-specific details but all the Source record details too.

If you don’t like the Text From Source and Notes on a separate tab then they can be customised to appear on the front Citation tab.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mim Smith
Sent: 30 May 2021 08:21
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] "Citation Specific Details" Box

 

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


"Citation Specific Details" Box

Miriam Smith
 

In the previous version of FH, the "Citation Box" on the right side of the property box was made up of two parts.  By clicking once on one of the sources I had used for a fact, I could see other details immediately - such as 'assessment' and 'text from source'.  So if the source was a particular parish register that i had a copy of the page, i would make it a primary assessment and note that i actually had a copy of it.  Or if a census, I would record that as secondary with the census reference number.  However, now i have to double click to open the source, and then click on another tab to see it as there is now only one very long "Citation Box" and I have not been able to work out how to make it show these details easily.  To have to double click and then further click to view data that was previously showing is not really working for me.  How can I force those details to show as on the previous version of FH?  Sorry, but I think I've searched everywhere for this issue, but couldn't find an answer.  Thanks.


Re: How do I see the full citation

Jan Murphy
 

I struggled with the "lumper vs. splitter" idea for ages, then one day, the light bulb went on.  

Some programs like Family Tree Maker have a different way for handling sources where you can load all the 'top-level' information about a source so you don't have to repeat yourself over and over again, and a section where you put the information for the individual citation (the one certificate you may be looking at).  When I was just starting out in genealogy, this baffled me, but after reading the lumper/splitter debates on the FHUG forum, I finally started to get it. 

The program Clooz allows the user a lot of flexibility about how you enter the information.  Their video on Source Citations talks about various options there. Getting Started with Clooz video 4: Entering Documents (Source Citations)  

But when all else fails, I like to go to the Evidence Explained website, read the forum and lessons, and then think about what's there. 

Some links about FamilySearch and layered citations:

QuickLesson 25: ARKs, PALs, Paths & Waypoints (Citing Online Providers of Digital Images)

Layered Source Citations: What Comes First?

I wonder if some of the problem is that the templates may not be set up to capture all the layers of layered citations. 

However you record things, the basic principle is to cite what you use.  A certificate you view from FamilySearch should be cited differently than a certified copy ordered directly from Cook County, or acquired via the Illinois State Genealogical Society's program, because they may not be exactly the same.  In England and Wales, the copy obtained from the local record office may not have exactly the same information as one from the GRO.  And so on.  



Jan Murphy
Moderator Pro Tempore



On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:29 PM colevalleygirl@... <colevalleygirl@...> wrote:

I’m glad you’ve sorted it.

 

You may be right, although there are people that lump English BMD. Also, births here were recorded first at the local level and then aggregated at the national level, so there are multiple places we can get certificates too. Perhaps a more important difference is that we have to pay to see the details on a certificate (as a paper or PDF copy), so that perhaps predisposes us to ‘splitting’ them.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Santa Traugott
Sent: 25 May 2021 20:27
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How do I see the full citation

 

I thank you all very much for your help and patience.  I have now successfully created a custom Source Template, and amended the footnote format therein, and now the footnote looks approximately as I would like it to be, and I think I know how to do further tinkering.

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that the splitting method for civil registration certificates may work better in England, because BMDs (after 1837) come from the GRO, whereas here in the States, births are recorded at the county level, and then usually at some point aggregated to the state level, so there are multiple places whether the certificate might have come from, not just one.  A birth certificate source for a person that simply records the name and date would be useless (on its own) in the U.S.  

 


Re: How do I see the full citation

colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

I’m glad you’ve sorted it.

 

You may be right, although there are people that lump English BMD. Also, births here were recorded first at the local level and then aggregated at the national level, so there are multiple places we can get certificates too. Perhaps a more important difference is that we have to pay to see the details on a certificate (as a paper or PDF copy), so that perhaps predisposes us to ‘splitting’ them.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Santa Traugott
Sent: 25 May 2021 20:27
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How do I see the full citation

 

I thank you all very much for your help and patience.  I have now successfully created a custom Source Template, and amended the footnote format therein, and now the footnote looks approximately as I would like it to be, and I think I know how to do further tinkering.

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that the splitting method for civil registration certificates may work better in England, because BMDs (after 1837) come from the GRO, whereas here in the States, births are recorded at the county level, and then usually at some point aggregated to the state level, so there are multiple places whether the certificate might have come from, not just one.  A birth certificate source for a person that simply records the name and date would be useless (on its own) in the U.S.  

 


Re: How do I see the full citation

Santa Traugott
 

I thank you all very much for your help and patience.  I have now successfully created a custom Source Template, and amended the footnote format therein, and now the footnote looks approximately as I would like it to be, and I think I know how to do further tinkering.

I wonder if part of the problem is that the splitting method for civil registration certificates may work better in England, because BMDs (after 1837) come from the GRO, whereas here in the States, births are recorded at the county level, and then usually at some point aggregated to the state level, so there are multiple places whether the certificate might have come from, not just one.  A birth certificate source for a person that simply records the name and date would be useless (on its own) in the U.S.  

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:04 AM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Sandra,

Some tips regarding splitter versus lumped Source Templates.

 

  1. Method 1 Splitter Source Templates
    The default template definitions mostly use this method. One exception is the
    Civil Registration Index template.
    This allows any source Fields defined in the template to be included in the Footnote Format that appears in the Sources section of Reports.
    Therefore you can include all the Fields of data that you enter in the Sources for Reports, which I think is what you requested.

Similarly, any source Fields can be included in the Record Title Format and Bibliography Format
This method needs one new Source record for every certificate.

  1. Method 2 Lumped Source Templates
    This will usually need Citation-specific Fields to hold details particular to each certificate.
    They can be included in the Footnote Format that appears in the Sources section of Reports.
    Therefore you can include all the Fields of data that you enter in the Sources for Reports, which I think is what you requested.
    However, Citation-specific Fields cannot be included in the Record Title Format and Bibliography Format which is logical.
    This method reuses the same Source record for many certificates.

 

 


Re: How do I see the full citation

Mike Tate
 

Sandra,

Some tips regarding splitter versus lumped Source Templates.

 

  1. Method 1 Splitter Source Templates
    The default template definitions mostly use this method. One exception is the
    Civil Registration Index template.
    This allows any source Fields defined in the template to be included in the Footnote Format that appears in the Sources section of Reports.
    Therefore you can include all the Fields of data that you enter in the Sources for Reports, which I think is what you requested.

Similarly, any source Fields can be included in the Record Title Format and Bibliography Format
This method needs one new Source record for every certificate.

  1. Method 2 Lumped Source Templates
    This will usually need Citation-specific Fields to hold details particular to each certificate.
    They can be included in the Footnote Format that appears in the Sources section of Reports.
    Therefore you can include all the Fields of data that you enter in the Sources for Reports, which I think is what you requested.
    However, Citation-specific Fields cannot be included in the Record Title Format and Bibliography Format which is logical.
    This method reuses the same Source record for many certificates.

 

 


Re: How do I see the full citation

colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Once you’ve done your planned reading, experiment with creating a custom template,. You can clone the Civil Registration Certificate template (but give it a name and description that doesn’t imply it’s a single certificate) and mark some of the existing fields in the clone as Citation fields rather than Source fields (e.g. the Principal, Date(s), Location, Reference...)  You’ll want a new Source field for ‘Source of the Source’ (maybe call it Credit Line or Citing?)  I suggest playing around in the Sample Project rather than with your ‘real’ project – you can make as many attempts as you like to get it right and not have to tidy up your real project afterwards. (The sample project is easy to reset completely).

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Santa Traugott
Sent: 25 May 2021 12:45
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] How do I see the full citation

 

Thank you very much.  This is very helpful.  I have read that sentence about one CR record per source record, without really understanding it.  Similarly, I have read the lumping and splitting discussion multiple times without its relevance to what I was doing sinking in.  Now, some light is beginning to dawn, and I will re-read about lumping v, splitting..

 

Yes, citing the whole FS dataset was my goal.  I actually couldn’t get my mind around any other way to think about this.  There will be more people in my family born in Illinois (died and married in Illinois) and so I will cite that source multiple times, with modifications for each person.  But I don’t expect to have to apply that particular source record to any other person, e.g., the mother and father shown in the source.  

 

Thank you so much for your patience.  

 


Re: How do I see the full citation

Santa Traugott
 

Thank you very much.  This is very helpful.  I have read that sentence about one CR record per source record, without really understanding it.  Similarly, I have read the lumping and splitting discussion multiple times without its relevance to what I was doing sinking in.  Now, some light is beginning to dawn, and I will re-read about lumping v, splitting..

Yes, citing the whole FS dataset was my goal.  I actually couldn’t get my mind around any other way to think about this.  There will be more people in my family born in Illinois (died and married in Illinois) and so I will cite that source multiple times, with modifications for each person.  But I don’t expect to have to apply that particular source record to any other person, e.g., the mother and father shown in the source.  

Thank you so much for your patience.  

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:33 AM colevalleygirl@... <colevalleygirl@...> wrote:

Sandra, this conversation would be easier on the FHUG forums, but then we’d end up conversing on Facebook, here and on the forums, so I suggest we stay here unless you prefer otherwise.

 

Before we go much further, can I double-check my understanding? It sounds as if you want to create a single source for the entirety of that FamilySearch dataset, rather than a single source for an entry within that dataset, i.e. to ‘lump’ the source rather than split it? (see https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/citing-sources-method-1-and-method-2/ if the terminology ‘lump’ isn’t familiar).

 

If this is the case, then you will definitely need a custom source template, as the Essentials Civil Registration Certificate Template is designed for use with “One source record per civil registration certificate (any region of the world) for birth, marriage, death, divorce, etc. “ (I’ve taken that from the Description field of the Template). Most of the Essentials templates are ‘splitters’ templates, with the exception of the Civil Registration Index template.

 

Can I reassure you that what you want to do is certainly achievable.  As you’ve suggested, the steps will be:

 

  • Creating the custom Source Template with the appropriate source and citation fields. You will create a single Template to use for all such FamilySearch birth datasets.
  • Creating a source from the custom template for e.g. Illinois Birth Certificates 1871-1949
  • Citing that source where you need it
  • Configuring your reports to show the Footnote the first time the source is cited, and then the Short Footnote thereafter (plus the appropriate entry in the bibliography/source list).
  •  

Helen

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