Date   

Re: Ancestry subscription discount

Fiona Hall
 

You didn’t have to be brand new to Ancestry to use it – just not a current subscriber
 
Fiona
 

From: James Pam
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:25 PM
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Ancestry subscription discount
 
Much to my surprise this Ancestry link first posted by Trevor Rix in 2017 still offers a 50% discount on subscription. I was  a lapsed Ancestry member so don't know whether  £59 for 12 months is limited to lapsed members.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15275&p=80914#p80914


Ancestry subscription discount

James Pam
 

Much to my surprise this Ancestry link first posted by Trevor Rix in 2017 still offers a 50% discount on subscription. I was  a lapsed Ancestry member so don't know whether  £59 for 12 months is limited to lapsed members.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15275&p=80914#p80914


Re: Revoked will

Julia Vokes
 

One thing that comes out loud and clear to me is the importance of making a Will and then keeping it up to date!! This is so relevant these days when people often marry more than once or not at all and might have children and step children from different relationships. Also worth remembering is that a divorce does not make a Will invalid, unlike a marriage, unless the Will was made with the marriage specifically mentioned.

A friend recently came unstuck badly, and expensively, when her common law husband died. She was the second partner and he had made his Will when married to the first wife and never updated it!!

Julia

On 6 Feb 2021, at 12:35, David Dewick <david.dewick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Intestacy rules are even more complicated (or vindictive) if you are adopted and one of your adopted parents re-marry . ☹️
On 6 Feb 2021, at 12:30, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 12:19, Lorna Craig via groups.io
<l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:
Adrian, that’s interesting but I recall learning something slightly different. It was my understanding that if two people died more or less simultaneously (as in the case of a bombing incident) and there was no way of knowing exactly who died first, the older person was presumed to have died first.
Doh! Your understanding is pretty much what I meant, only it says it
more generally.

For titles (which was all I was talking about) of course there is only
one heir so your objection of two heirs doesn't apply. However, in the
more general case, your statement makes sense and is more useful than
my formula.

Thanks
Adrian








Re: Revoked will

David Dewick
 

Intestacy rules are even more complicated (or vindictive) if you are adopted and one of your adopted parents re-marry . ☹️

On 6 Feb 2021, at 12:30, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 12:19, Lorna Craig via groups.io
<l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:
Adrian, that’s interesting but I recall learning something slightly different. It was my understanding that if two people died more or less simultaneously (as in the case of a bombing incident) and there was no way of knowing exactly who died first, the older person was presumed to have died first.
Doh! Your understanding is pretty much what I meant, only it says it
more generally.

For titles (which was all I was talking about) of course there is only
one heir so your objection of two heirs doesn't apply. However, in the
more general case, your statement makes sense and is more useful than
my formula.

Thanks
Adrian





Re: Revoked will

Adrian Bruce
 

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 12:19, Lorna Craig via groups.io
<l.m.craig=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:
Adrian, that’s interesting but I recall learning something slightly different. It was my understanding that if two people died more or less simultaneously (as in the case of a bombing incident) and there was no way of knowing exactly who died first, the older person was presumed to have died first.
Doh! Your understanding is pretty much what I meant, only it says it
more generally.

For titles (which was all I was talking about) of course there is only
one heir so your objection of two heirs doesn't apply. However, in the
more general case, your statement makes sense and is more useful than
my formula.

Thanks
Adrian


Re: Revoked will

Lorna Craig
 

Adrian, that’s interesting but I recall learning something slightly different.  It was my understanding that if two people died more or less simultaneously (as in the case of a bombing incident) and there was no way of knowing exactly who died first, the older person was presumed to have died first. 

 

If it was just a case of assuming that the ‘heir’ survives longer, how would you resolve a case where the two people concerned had made each other their heirs?

 

Don't know about inheritance under intestacy, but there are rules about how titles are inherited if the holder and their heir die at the same time. IIRC, the heir is deemed to survive the holder for enough seconds to inherit the title. After that, it goes to the next heir - if any. (I learnt this from a railway history book!)

 


Re: Revoked will

Adrian Bruce
 

Don't know about inheritance under intestacy, but there are rules about how titles are inherited if the holder and their heir die at the same time. IIRC, the heir is deemed to survive the holder for enough seconds to inherit the title. After that, it goes to the next heir - if any. (I learnt this from a railway history book!)

Whether a similar rule exists to determine who gets what in a case of intestacy, as here, I have no idea, but it's worth bearing in mind as a possible explanation for who might get what.



Re: Revoked will

Richard Hooke
 

Hi John

Your circumstances raise a number of questions of probate/L of A  law

Eg

How old were they

 Is there a will

Who died first or deemed to have died first

Were there relatives who had been abroad or prisoners of war

HM Treasury Solicitor suggests  no relatives could be found

A probate /LOA is often required for title to properties

Interesting to speculate

Richard

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: 05 February 2021 23:15
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Revoked will

 

I have just comes across something that is a rarity and can find nothing in the knowledge base or forum that seems to covers it

 

The Louisa and her husband John died together in 1940 in the crypt of St Peter’s church, Walworth where they were sheltering during an air-raid.

 

There is no will for John but there is an administration by the H M Treasury Solicitor in 1942 for her estate valued at nearly £1,200 (at lot of money in 1940)

 

When looking at the entry for that there is a pencilled note saying that the entry was revoked in 1950 and a new administration re-spawn (I currently have no idea who the person requesting the administration is but must be family somewhere!)

Whilst I can happily record the two administration is a question of how to record the revoking – anyone any thoughts?

Regards

John Hanson


Re: Revoked will

John Hanson
 

Adrian

Thanks – I might well have it in the Halstead files with over 3500 wills (going to have to straighten them out when I bring the file over from TMG!)
But I think that your idea works – can always go find them if need be
Revoked wills are more likely I suspect – I doubt that the Treasury still have the papers!
Will have to go ask the guru on all things genealogical

Regards

John

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce
Sent: 06 February 2021 07:22
To: Family Historian Groups.io mailing list <Family-historian@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Revoked will

 

I've never heard of a revoked Admon either - presumably distribution of the estate had not completed, else there'd be no point in revoking the Admon? 

 

For the revoking, as it's something that is unlikely to appear again very often, if at all, I'd probably just record the 2 grants of Letters of Administration, and in the notes for the second grant, I'd record the revoking there. Add a similar note to the first grant, if you like. 

 

If you don't use fact notes and don't want to start, then I guess that a custom event would be the way to go. 


Re: Revoked will

John Hanson
 

Julia

As it is an administration there is no will
I have sent for both admins – at £1.50 no great loss at £10 I’d be thinking differently I expect
Have also found that the administrator on the second one was the brother-in-law of the deceased woman

More interestingly their maternal line look like it might have links to my own brother-in-law but then BYFORD is a common name is Suffolk/Essex

Regards

John

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Julia Vokes
Sent: 06 February 2021 09:07
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Revoked will

 

I’m wondering if this instance was actually a variation of the Will which has to happen within two years of the person dying. Essentially it varies the distribution of the estate and is sometimes known as a Deed of family arrangement. It doesn’t matter whether the deceased left a Will or not. So I’m thinking maybe a relative came forward?

Below is the summary from the gov.uk website



Also known as a variation – or deed of family arrangement – this allows beneficiaries to rearrange or vary their entitlement. A deed of variation can be used by any person who receives a gift under a will to redirect their inheritance to another person. ... Changes can be made provided all the beneficiaries agree.



It’s a useful device as it can be used to reduce inheritance tax



Regards

Julia

, please excuse any typos.



On 6 Feb 2021, at 07:22, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@...> wrote:



I've never heard of a revoked Admon either - presumably distribution of the estate had not completed, else there'd be no point in revoking the Admon? 

 

For the revoking, as it's something that is unlikely to appear again very often, if at all, I'd probably just record the 2 grants of Letters of Administration, and in the notes for the second grant, I'd record the revoking there. Add a similar note to the first grant, if you like. 

 

If you don't use fact notes and don't want to start, then I guess that a custom event would be the way to go. 


Re: Revoked will

Julia Vokes
 

I’m wondering if this instance was actually a variation of the Will which has to happen within two years of the person dying. Essentially it varies the distribution of the estate and is sometimes known as a Deed of family arrangement. It doesn’t matter whether the deceased left a Will or not. So I’m thinking maybe a relative came forward?
Below is the summary from the gov.uk website

Also known as a variation – or deed of family arrangement – this allows beneficiaries to rearrange or vary their entitlement. A deed of variation can be used by any person who receives a gift under a will to redirect their inheritance to another person. ... Changes can be made provided all the beneficiaries agree.

It’s a useful device as it can be used to reduce inheritance tax

Regards
Julia

, please excuse any typos.

On 6 Feb 2021, at 07:22, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@...> wrote:


I've never heard of a revoked Admon either - presumably distribution of the estate had not completed, else there'd be no point in revoking the Admon? 

For the revoking, as it's something that is unlikely to appear again very often, if at all, I'd probably just record the 2 grants of Letters of Administration, and in the notes for the second grant, I'd record the revoking there. Add a similar note to the first grant, if you like. 

If you don't use fact notes and don't want to start, then I guess that a custom event would be the way to go. 


Re: Revoked will

Adrian Bruce
 

I've never heard of a revoked Admon either - presumably distribution of the estate had not completed, else there'd be no point in revoking the Admon? 

For the revoking, as it's something that is unlikely to appear again very often, if at all, I'd probably just record the 2 grants of Letters of Administration, and in the notes for the second grant, I'd record the revoking there. Add a similar note to the first grant, if you like. 

If you don't use fact notes and don't want to start, then I guess that a custom event would be the way to go. 


Revoked will

John Hanson
 

I have just comes across something that is a rarity and can find nothing in the knowledge base or forum that seems to covers it

 

The Louisa and her husband John died together in 1940 in the crypt of St Peter’s church, Walworth where they were sheltering during an air-raid.

 

There is no will for John but there is an administration by the H M Treasury Solicitor in 1942 for her estate valued at nearly £1,200 (at lot of money in 1940)

 

When looking at the entry for that there is a pencilled note saying that the entry was revoked in 1950 and a new administration re-spawn (I currently have no idea who the person requesting the administration is but must be family somewhere!)

Whilst I can happily record the two administration is a question of how to record the revoking – anyone any thoughts?

Regards

John Hanson


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Sheila Bryant
 

Hi Adrian, good point. Right now I only have one other person for whom a Registration event would be applicable, so perhaps not .......

Many thanks

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 at 19:23, Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@...> wrote:
Personally, I'd record the Registration document in a source record as Mike suggests, an occupation of Teacher citing that source record, and record the date of Registration in the notes for the occupation. 

Just because you can set Registration up as a separate event (if you create a custom fact) doesn't mean that you should. If you're never going to search for other Registrations, there's little point in creating a custom fact to be used once. Then again, you need to know that I have extensive notes for most of my facts, giving background information for each. 



--
Sheila


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Sheila Bryant
 

Thanks both Mike & Pauline, I've got my Source all entered now! Still working on the various bits of information it gives me, and I think a custom event is the way to handle the actual registration.  Glad to know I hadn't missed anything - although I haven't got to the bottom of my "Qualification" fact. I suspect it's one I created in the dim and distant past and have forgotten about. I'd check now, but I'm not using my desktop PC so haven't got access to it.

Thanks again

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 at 18:04, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Thank you Pauline,

Ok, if that event is to be recorded then it may need a custom event to be defined as the only standard event that comes close is Graduation. However, it is up to each historian to decide whether every such event such as passing a driving test, celebrating 50th anniversary, getting promoted to foreman, etc, is worthy of recording in the family history.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Pauline Parnell
Sent: 05 February 2021 17:22
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Recording Professional Registration

 

Actually, Mike, registration is an event in itself which follows on from qualification.  It's possible to qualify and then work abroad so that you don't actually get registered over here (speaking as a retired teacher :D)

Pauline



--
Sheila


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Adrian Bruce
 

Personally, I'd record the Registration document in a source record as Mike suggests, an occupation of Teacher citing that source record, and record the date of Registration in the notes for the occupation. 

Just because you can set Registration up as a separate event (if you create a custom fact) doesn't mean that you should. If you're never going to search for other Registrations, there's little point in creating a custom fact to be used once. Then again, you need to know that I have extensive notes for most of my facts, giving background information for each. 


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Mike Tate
 

Thank you Pauline,

Ok, if that event is to be recorded then it may need a custom event to be defined as the only standard event that comes close is Graduation. However, it is up to each historian to decide whether every such event such as passing a driving test, celebrating 50th anniversary, getting promoted to foreman, etc, is worthy of recording in the family history.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Pauline Parnell
Sent: 05 February 2021 17:22
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Recording Professional Registration

 

Actually, Mike, registration is an event in itself which follows on from qualification.  It's possible to qualify and then work abroad so that you don't actually get registered over here (speaking as a retired teacher :D)

Pauline


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Pauline Parnell
 

Actually, Mike, registration is an event in itself which follows on from qualification.  It's possible to qualify and then work abroad so that you don't actually get registered over here (speaking as a retired teacher :D)
Pauline

Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 at 17:12, Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Hi Sheila,

Not sure where that Qualification fact came from but it is definitely non-standard.

 

The registration document itself should be entered into a Source record, in the same way you enter a Birth/Death Certificate or a Census record. Link the image of the document to the Media tab and put a transcript in the Text From Source field. The Author could be the Teachers Registration Council and Publication Info any reference numbers.

 

The Occupation fact would cite the Source record in the same way a Birth/Death event would cite the Source record with the certificate.

 

If the registration document confirms any education qualification that could be recorded with a standard Education fact.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sheila Bryant
Sent: 05 February 2021 16:31
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Recording Professional Registration

 

Hopefully a nice easy one for you knowledgeable people!

 

I've found a record of registration with the Teachers Registration Council from 1920. 

 

It gives useful information about teaching posts held - no problem there - "Occupation". 

 

What I'm not sure about is how to classify/record the actual registration document itself. There is "Qualification", but that doesn't quite hit the spot. All ideas are very welcome.

 

I'm still using FH6 by the way - inertia rules!

 

Many thanks

--

Sheila


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Recording Professional Registration

Mike Tate
 

Hi Sheila,

Not sure where that Qualification fact came from but it is definitely non-standard.

 

The registration document itself should be entered into a Source record, in the same way you enter a Birth/Death Certificate or a Census record. Link the image of the document to the Media tab and put a transcript in the Text From Source field. The Author could be the Teachers Registration Council and Publication Info any reference numbers.

 

The Occupation fact would cite the Source record in the same way a Birth/Death event would cite the Source record with the certificate.

 

If the registration document confirms any education qualification that could be recorded with a standard Education fact.

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sheila Bryant
Sent: 05 February 2021 16:31
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Recording Professional Registration

 

Hopefully a nice easy one for you knowledgeable people!

 

I've found a record of registration with the Teachers Registration Council from 1920. 

 

It gives useful information about teaching posts held - no problem there - "Occupation". 

 

What I'm not sure about is how to classify/record the actual registration document itself. There is "Qualification", but that doesn't quite hit the spot. All ideas are very welcome.

 

I'm still using FH6 by the way - inertia rules!

 

Many thanks

--

Sheila


Recording Professional Registration

Sheila Bryant
 

Hopefully a nice easy one for you knowledgeable people!

I've found a record of registration with the Teachers Registration Council from 1920. 

It gives useful information about teaching posts held - no problem there - "Occupation". 

What I'm not sure about is how to classify/record the actual registration document itself. There is "Qualification", but that doesn't quite hit the spot. All ideas are very welcome.

I'm still using FH6 by the way - inertia rules!

Many thanks
--
Sheila

821 - 840 of 3718