Re: What has changed for you over the past 20 years?

George Paci

I am definitely stealing this term and spreading it.

"If you want to do Continuous Delivery, you need to do Continuous Integration. And if you want to do Continuous Integration, you need to do Continuous Coding."

Memorable.  Also true.


  Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tired.
      - Jules Renard

On 12/4/19 5:33 PM, Avi Kessner wrote:
If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So you do CC, then CI, then CD.  You could shorten this to C3, and bring XP back in a full circle.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <> wrote:

I think it’s a great idea to build a sellable brand for XP. How about 'Effective Programming', as in delivering results?


On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <rdymond@...> wrote:

Hey Ron!

Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to growing these practices.

A couple ideas:
Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extreme" is a terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, working at Sun got marketing and branding involved and thats why we got the great branding for Java.

How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech celebrities advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I mean mainstream tech celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these guys
And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd.

Robin Dymond, CST
Managing Partner, Innovel
Direct: (804) 239-4329
twitter: @robindymond

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries <ronjeffriesacm@...> wrote:
Hi Robin,

Nice to see you here!

sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.
ronjeffries@... is a better address for me, maybe.

> On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <rdymond@...> wrote:
> Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I overview in detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. Also explain that you have to look at XP,  not Scrum for great ideas on how to make great quality software.

I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know is that even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story below tells.
> I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a client who I started working with Scrum in 2010 I have trained most the staff on Scrum. They have over 1000 developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion courses with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing from HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the classes. This same company spends millions per year on dev training and regularly sell out courses on Swift, C++, python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflow etc. etc. Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is the struggle.
> So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we need to convince developers to widely adopt and spread these ideas.

It's a puzzlement. I've been talking with Howard Sublett (Scrum Alliance Chief Product Owner, for those who don't know) about the developer problem. He's interested, and I think he'd put some money behind it, but I'm at a loss as to how to effectively help. It's not clear what to do.

Ah well,


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