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user feedback needed


kendell clark
 

hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past couple of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american, which I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked but I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might be a good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and "incrypt"? I believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between "exploit" when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as "ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even attempt such a fix. I could only fix exploit, the word, I couldn't write the rules espeak needs, only reece or someone who knows espeak ng's internals better could. This is *not* a complaint whatsoever, I love espeak ng. One more thing I've been wondering. Should words such as button, eaten, cuttin, etc be said with a glottal stop, that is, a silent t followed by the n? Espeak already does this for some words, but it does so with only some words, like button and eaten. The challenge there would be to not mangle words like "tintin" pronounced tin tin, and tintinabulation. What do you guys think? Are there any US english users out there who would like reece's idea of having different american accents, one that says exploit like espeak ng currently does and one that says "ixploit" like I've heard it? I'm not asking for reece to make changes, just for feedback from other espeak and espeak ng users. It's also worth noting that the only people who will see the changes are those who have built espeak ng from source, the copy built into nvda doesn't have these changes yet, and won't until an official espeak ng release is made.
Thanks
Kendell Clark


Bhavya shah
 

Hi Kendell,
The glottal stop suggestion for words like 'button' and 'cotton' may
make ESpeak-NG sound more natural, but would probably affect its
intelligibility in some cases. I would vote against that at least.
I do not have a certain stance about making the 'e' sound more like an
i', because although it sounds slightly redundant to me, your
reasoning is perfectly justified as well.
Creating further dialects under American English may simply complicate
things for an average user, but if more techie folks find that a
substantial improvement, your verdict shall be more weighty, because I
am simply imagining, presuming and accordingly commenting.
Thanks.

On 3/3/17, kendell clark <coffeekingms@gmail.com> wrote:
hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past couple
of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american, which
I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked but
I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might be a
good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should
espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've
heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and "incrypt"? I
believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between "exploit"
when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've
deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as
"ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even attempt
such a fix. I could only fix exploit, the word, I couldn't write the
rules espeak needs, only reece or someone who knows espeak ng's
internals better could. This is *not* a complaint whatsoever, I love
espeak ng. One more thing I've been wondering. Should words such as
button, eaten, cuttin, etc be said with a glottal stop, that is, a
silent t followed by the n? Espeak already does this for some words, but
it does so with only some words, like button and eaten. The challenge
there would be to not mangle words like "tintin" pronounced tin tin, and
tintinabulation. What do you guys think? Are there any US english users
out there who would like reece's idea of having different american
accents, one that says exploit like espeak ng currently does and one
that says "ixploit" like I've heard it? I'm not asking for reece to
make changes, just for feedback from other espeak and espeak ng users.
It's also worth noting that the only people who will see the changes are
those who have built espeak ng from source, the copy built into nvda
doesn't have these changes yet, and won't until an official espeak ng
release is made.
Thanks
Kendell Clark




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Avid Enthusiast and User of the Free NVDA Screen Reader (www.nvaccess.org)

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
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Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


kendell clark
 

hi
I agree with your point about complicating things, however I believe, I'm not positive but I think these other accents will just show up as another varient in nvda and orca and similar, so it won't be too much trouble to enable them. As for cotton and button and so on, I really like the glottal stop idea, but maybe it should be only in certain accents if not all people with american accents speak like that. I'm from east texas, and we definitely have words that shouldn't actually be words lol. Ultimately it's up to reece as he's the head developer, although he definitely takes user feedback into account, and does a fantastic job to boot.
Thanks
Kendell Clark


Bhavya shah wrote:

Hi Kendell,
The glottal stop suggestion for words like 'button' and 'cotton' may
make ESpeak-NG sound more natural, but would probably affect its
intelligibility in some cases. I would vote against that at least.
I do not have a certain stance about making the 'e' sound more like an
i', because although it sounds slightly redundant to me, your
reasoning is perfectly justified as well.
Creating further dialects under American English may simply complicate
things for an average user, but if more techie folks find that a
substantial improvement, your verdict shall be more weighty, because I
am simply imagining, presuming and accordingly commenting.
Thanks.

On 3/3/17, kendell clark <coffeekingms@gmail.com> wrote:
hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past couple
of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american, which
I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked but
I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might be a
good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should
espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've
heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and "incrypt"? I
believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between "exploit"
when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've
deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as
"ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even attempt
such a fix. I could only fix exploit, the word, I couldn't write the
rules espeak needs, only reece or someone who knows espeak ng's
internals better could. This is *not* a complaint whatsoever, I love
espeak ng. One more thing I've been wondering. Should words such as
button, eaten, cuttin, etc be said with a glottal stop, that is, a
silent t followed by the n? Espeak already does this for some words, but
it does so with only some words, like button and eaten. The challenge
there would be to not mangle words like "tintin" pronounced tin tin, and
tintinabulation. What do you guys think? Are there any US english users
out there who would like reece's idea of having different american
accents, one that says exploit like espeak ng currently does and one
that says "ixploit" like I've heard it? I'm not asking for reece to
make changes, just for feedback from other espeak and espeak ng users.
It's also worth noting that the only people who will see the changes are
those who have built espeak ng from source, the copy built into nvda
doesn't have these changes yet, and won't until an official espeak ng
release is made.
Thanks
Kendell Clark





Travis Siegel
 

My feeling on this is that regional accents should not be included. I personally much prefer exploit to be pronounced with the E, not the I. It bugs the hell out of me when people say words like that, and I really don't my synthesizer to begin doing that. I'd have to scream or something if it started doing that.

No, please, by all that is holy, don't begin introducing such off-beat pronounciations. It's bad enough when my son's highschool principal talks like he's from the hood. I don't want my synthesizer doing it too.


(nothing against people from the hood, I just don't need tohear it 24-7)

On 3/3/2017 3:00 AM, kendell clark wrote:
hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past couple of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american, which I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked but I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might be a good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and "incrypt"? I believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between "exploit" when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as "ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even attempt such a fix. I could only fix exploit, the word, I couldn't write the rules espeak needs, only reece or someone who knows espeak ng's internals better could. This is *not* a complaint whatsoever, I love espeak ng. One more thing I've been wondering. Should words such as button, eaten, cuttin, etc be said with a glottal stop, that is, a silent t followed by the n? Espeak already does this for some words, but it does so with only some words, like button and eaten. The challenge there would be to not mangle words like "tintin" pronounced tin tin, and tintinabulation. What do you guys think? Are there any US english users out there who would like reece's idea of having different american accents, one that says exploit like espeak ng currently does and one that says "ixploit" like I've heard it? I'm not asking for reece to make changes, just for feedback from other espeak and espeak ng users. It's also worth noting that the only people who will see the changes are those who have built espeak ng from source, the copy built into nvda doesn't have these changes yet, and won't until an official espeak ng release is made.
Thanks
Kendell Clark



Reece H. Dunn
 

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:00 am, kendell clark wrote:

hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past couple
of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american, which
I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked but
I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might be a
good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should
espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've
heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and "incrypt"? I
believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between "exploit"
when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've
deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as
"ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even attempt
such a fix.

I hve already reverted this in change https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/commit/00b1ab83367cebbad0b1c19875bee4933f9b05d7. This requires building the phonemes to get the change. I'm now only using that behaviour for the Received Pronunciation British English accent, as that is a more conservative/archaic variant of Southern British as compared to en-GB.

Kind regards,

Reece


kendell clark
 

hi
This is why I ask for user feedback. I may fix the US english pronunciations but the aim has always been to make espeak ng better for everyone, not just me. So the "ixploit" thing is not important enough to me. I can understand espeak ng regardless, so I'll drop the subject. On the subject of annoying pronunciations, the "axe" instead of "ask" stuff has always bugged me. Not to start anything but every time I hear that I have this powerful urge to correct whoever's speaking, but it's usually on some tv show, not imperson. The only thing left that I was hoping could get looked at would be the pronunciation of words such as "happy and baby" as "happi" and "baybi". I've already mentioned this so I won't go into this, and it's not vital or anything, I want to make that clear. I use espeak ng as my only synth, and I'll continue to do so however it changes.
Thanks
Kendell Clark


Reece H. Dunn wrote:

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:00 am, kendell clark wrote:

hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past
couple
of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american,
which
I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked
but
I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might
be a
good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should
espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've
heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and
"incrypt"? I
believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between
"exploit"
when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've
deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as
"ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even
attempt
such a fix.

I hve already reverted this in change https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/commit/00b1ab83367cebbad0b1c19875bee4933f9b05d7. This requires building the phonemes to get the change. I'm now only using that behaviour for the Received Pronunciation British English accent, as that is a more conservative/archaic variant of Southern British as compared to en-GB.

Kind regards,

Reece


Reece H. Dunn
 

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 01:36 am, kendell clark wrote:

hi
This is why I ask for user feedback. I may fix the US english
pronunciations but the aim has always been to make espeak ng better for
everyone, not just me. So the "ixploit" thing is not important enough to
me. I can understand espeak ng regardless, so I'll drop the subject.

I always appreciate your feedback.

Language is complex because there is a time component, a region/accent component and an individual speaker component. The "ixploit" pronunciation is a more historic pronunciation documented in John Wells' lexical sets.

I'm aiming for en-US to be a modern General American accent like how en-GB is a modern Southern British accent.

The only thing left that I was hoping
could get looked at would be the pronunciation of words such as "happy
and baby" as "happi" and "baybi".

This has now been fixed.

I've already mentioned this so I won't
go into this, and it's not vital or anything, I want to make that clear.

Feel free to comment on the changes I am making, because if I don't get any reports that something is wrong then I cannot fix them.

Kind regards,

Reece

I use espeak ng as my only synth, and I'll continue to do so however it
changes.
Thanks
Kendell Clark


Reece H. Dunn wrote:

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:00 am, kendell clark wrote:

hi all
Reece has made some important changes to espeak ng over the past
couple
of days. He has made the american accent sound much more american,
which
I like very much. He has also reversed a couple of changes I liked
but
I'm not going to simply ask him to put it back, since there might
be a
good reason for it. I'm writing to ask for community feedback. Should
espeak say words such as experience as "ixperience", more like I've
heard it said, and "enable" and "encrypt" as "inable" and
"incrypt"? I
believe so, but it also has to be able to distinguish between
"exploit"
when in a sentence such as "it's a security exploit" and "you've
deliberately exploited the bug" in which case exploit is said as
"ixploit". I can't fix this, I don't have the knowledge to even
attempt
such a fix.

I hve already reverted this in change
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/commit/00b1ab83367cebbad0b1c19875bee4933f9b05d7.
This requires building the phonemes to get the change. I'm now only
using that behaviour for the Received Pronunciation British English
accent, as that is a more conservative/archaic variant of Southern
British as compared to en-GB.

Kind regards,

Reece