Topics

Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird. Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound
just a tad slower than they did before. Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable. I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right. I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before. Why
these changes? What prompted them?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird. Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound
just a tad slower than they did before. Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable. I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right. I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before. Why
these changes? What prompted them?



Reece H. Dunn
 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1.  their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2.  the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3.  their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4.  their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5.  etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that was changed.


To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also" and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.

On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1.  their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2.  the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3.  their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4.  their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5.  etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Found another rather egregious one. The "resign" part of "resignedly" is pronounced "Rezeen". I think something went wonky with the suffix "edly".


On 7/12/2017 9:29 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that was changed.


To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also" and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1.  their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2.  the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3.  their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4.  their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5.  etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Karl Eick
 

Hi,

The hundred thing only applies to the word, not the number. That could be made more consistent. Allso, I would remove that velarization used for the n in US english.

Regards,

Karl Eick


Am 07.12.2017 um 11:29 schrieb Sharni-Lee Ward:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that was changed.


To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also" and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1.  their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2.  the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3.  their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4.  their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5.  etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Brian's Mail list account
 

Newsletter is now newslitter.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


Found another rather egregious one. The "resign" part of "resignedly" is pronounced "Rezeen". I think something went wonky with the suffix "edly".

On 7/12/2017 9:29 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also" and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece



Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes I have actually gone back to the version of Espeak in speech player since for further and many others make it sound slurred to me in the UK.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also" and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games" without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin') don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed various words (see https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Bobby Vinton <vinton.bobby5277@...>
 

Hay my friend jake gross has an add on called speech player and e speek.  You can get this add on at www.grossgang/tts/speechplayerandespeek.  Good luck to all

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 2:06 PM
To: espeak-ng@groups.io
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4

 

Yes I have actually gone back to the version of Espeak in speech player

since for further and many others make it sound slurred to me in the UK.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>

To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:29 AM

Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4

 

 

>I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy

>with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before

>these changes.

> As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four

> part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's

> just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that

> was changed.

> To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also"

> and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.

> On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

> Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words

> that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed

> together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".

> That's ... not how English works...

> That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games"

> without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large

> ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your

> tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n

> sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and

> words ending in "ing" use that sound.

> NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin')

> don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents

> have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the

> 'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce

> the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does

> not get velarized in that case.

> On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

> Hi,

> I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in

> Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version

> of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"

> and "for a" sound really weird.

> How so?

> Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did

> before.

> Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

> Words like "percent" and its

> derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off

> because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.

> That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

> I can handle the

> changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't

> sound quite right.

> Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that

> accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

> I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not

> how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.

> It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:

> 1.  their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or

> Irish accent);

> 2.  the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);

> 3.  their age (accounting for any accent drift);

> 4.  their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more

> RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);

> 5.  etc.

> Why these changes? What prompted them?

> The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed

> various words (see

> https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I

> have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

> I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the

> accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure

> what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more

> flexible and configurable.

> Thanks for the feedback,

> - Reece

>

 

 

 

 

Reece H. Dunn
 

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:05 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Newsletter is now newslitter.
Brian
I have pushed a fix for this so espeak-ng now pronounces newsletter correctly. Thanks for reporting the issue. The problem was a result of some of the code cleanup work I have been doing, not changes in the pronunciation rules themselves.

Kind regards,
Reece


bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


Found another rather egregious one. The "resign" part of "resignedly" is
pronounced "Rezeen". I think something went wonky with the suffix "edly".

On 7/12/2017 9:29 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy
with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before
these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four
part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's
just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that
was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also"
and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games"
without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large
ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your
tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n
sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and
words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin')
don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents
have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the
'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce
the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does
not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did
before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that
accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or
Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more
RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed
various words (see
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I
have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the
accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure
what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more
flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Brian's Mail list account
 

I think that is what I am using on the add ons web site for nvda. It actually adds a different voice but the old ones are still present and its integrated with an older Espeak without the weird pronunciations in the latest couple of versions.
I was actually wondering if the pronounciations were changed to help US English and have upset the UK English version as well?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Vinton" <vinton.bobby5277@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


Hay my friend jake gross has an add on called speech player and e speek. You can get this add on at www.grossgang/tts/speechplayerandespeek. Good luck to all

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 2:06 PM
To: espeak-ng@groups.io
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4

Yes I have actually gone back to the version of Espeak in speech player
since for further and many others make it sound slurred to me in the UK.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy
with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before
these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four
part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's
just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that
was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also"
and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games"
without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large
ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your
tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n
sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and
words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin')
don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents
have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the
'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce
the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does
not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did
before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that
accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or
Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more
RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed
various words (see
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md). I
have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the
accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure
what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more
flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Brian's Mail list account
 

What about For and Further and some of the others that seem to make it sound a bit like its slurring.
Its very hard to explain these in a way that one can understand and means the same to others as well!
for and fur should be different in all situations.
Brian

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reece H. Dunn" <msclrhd@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:05 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


Newsletter is now newslitter.
Brian
I have pushed a fix for this so espeak-ng now pronounces newsletter correctly. Thanks for reporting the issue. The problem was a result of some of the code cleanup work I have been doing, not changes in the pronunciation rules themselves.

Kind regards,
Reece



bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4



Found another rather egregious one. The "resign" part of "resignedly" is
pronounced "Rezeen". I think something went wonky with the suffix "edly".

On 7/12/2017 9:29 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was happy

with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before
these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four
part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's
just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why that

was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also"
and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games"
without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the large

ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your
tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n
sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and
words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin')
don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other accents
have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of the
'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink) pronounce
the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does
not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did
before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that
accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or
Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more
RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed
various words (see
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md
). I
have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of the
accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure
what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more
flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece


Bhavya shah
 

Hi,
I completely agree with Brian with respect to the "for" and "for the"
discrepancy. The original, former pronunciation with "for" as an
independent word is perfect, because when it is pronounced as
"fur/fir", not only does it become confusing to follow but also, when
combined with the succeeding word in this case, can be misheard as
"further". This assessment is with regards to the English (Great
Britain) voice of the version of ESpeak-NG that ships with NVDA
version 2017.4.
Thanks.

On 12/8/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
What about For and Further and some of the others that seem to make it sound

a bit like its slurring.
Its very hard to explain these in a way that one can understand and means
the same to others as well!
for and fur should be different in all situations.
Brian

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reece H. Dunn" <msclrhd@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:05 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


Newsletter is now newslitter.
Brian
I have pushed a fix for this so espeak-ng now pronounces newsletter
correctly. Thanks for reporting the issue. The problem was a result of some

of the code cleanup work I have been doing, not changes in the pronunciation

rules themselves.

Kind regards,
Reece



bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] Espeak-ng packaged with NVDA 2017.4



Found another rather egregious one. The "resign" part of "resignedly" is
pronounced "Rezeen". I think something went wonky with the suffix
"edly".

On 7/12/2017 9:29 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I appreciate the lesson on why things sound like they did, but I was
happy

with the way espeak handled things like "in case" and "one game" before
these changes.


As for "for the", it sounds almost like "further" said faster. The four
part is over-emphasised. "For a" sounds more like "fer a" to me and it's
just ... UGH. I liked how those were done before and I don't know why
that

was changed.

To end on a somewhat positive note, I do like the improvements to "also"
and all words that contain "muse". It's nice to hear that sounding
right.
On 7/12/2017 6:30 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 04:45 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Also, words that end with n or an n sound that are followed by words
that start with a hard c or g sound like the two words were smushed
together. Something like "in games" being pronounced like "ing games".
That's ... not how English works...
That's a feature of English called velarization. Try saying "in games"
without the middle of your tongue pressing up against the velum (the
large

ridge behind our mouth) on the "n" sound -- this happens because your
tongue is moving in position to sound the hard k/g sound, and thus the n
sound gets influenced by this. This is why words like king and sing, and
words ending in "ing" use that sound.

NOTE: Accents that don't pronounce the 'g' in -ing words (e.g. nothin')
don't have the velarization due to not pronouncing the 'g'. Other
accents
have the velarization of the 'n', but don't sound the release part of
the
'g'. Other accents that pronounce -ing like -ink (e.g. nothink)
pronounce
the 'n' with the back of their tongue in a glottal stop, so the 'n' does
not get velarized in that case.

On 7/12/2017 11:38 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Hi,


I use the English setting now known as "English Great Britain" in
Espeak-ng. When I updated to the latest version of NVDA, the new version
of espeak-ng packaged with it sounded strange. Phrases like "for the"
and "for a" sound really weird.
How so?

Numbers like "twenty" and "ninety" sound just a tad slower than they did
before.
Is that at the end of the word? That is the only part that has changed.

Words like "percent" and its
derivatives, which were pronounced just fine before, now sound off
because of the lack of emphasis on the second syllable.
That's a bug. Thanks for the report.

I can handle the
changed pronunciation of "because", but the one for "hundred" doesn't
sound quite right.
Both are valid English pronunciations, but my intention is to make that
accent closer to what you are expecting, so needs adjusting.

I've watched a lot of British TV—I know that's not
how they say that, and again, it was pronounced just fine before.
It depends on the accent of the people you have watched. That depends
on:
1. their country and language of origin (e.g. speaking with a German or
Irish accent);
2. the part of England they grew up in (their broad regional accent);
3. their age (accounting for any accent drift);
4. their social and educational background (do they have a posher, more
RP-like accent? do they have a more urban accent?);
5. etc.

Why these changes? What prompted them?
The espeak pronunciation rules were inconsistent in how it transcribed
various words (see
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/blob/master/docs/languages/gmw/en.md
). I
have also applied pronunciation fixes for several words.

I need to make some adjustments to the voices to reflect my intent of
the
accents, which should address most of the issues you have (I'm not sure
what the problem is with 'for a'). Longer term, I want to make this more
flexible and configurable.

Thanks for the feedback,
- Reece






--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

Brian's Mail list account
 

I gather that the one that made newsletter into newslitter is being fixed. According to the folk over at the Espeak list some of these errors crept in during some tidying up, but due to their relationship with other words were for some reason not spotted.
I'm afraid I find their email list and issues tracker a bit impenetrable, as one can tell from the lack of posts from NVDA users over there, so really somebody who understands their working method should perhaps grab the latest version and make a list in their language of the issues and make an issue over there for them.
I see activity on the list about the imogees as well whether this is to fix the issues of bad identification of those and the crashing that can result as we saw, is not immediately clear to me though.