Topics

[OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd
 


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

Keehan Dowd
 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr


Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat



On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan


Bart Oleksy
 

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 

Keehan Dowd
 

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.

If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about $40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind $40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 


Bart Oleksy
 

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s $35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering $40/month.

 

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

 

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

 

Appreciate your thoughts on Wind, and whoever Brad Shaw is!  J

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.


If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about $40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind $40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

 

Keehan.

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 

 

Keehan Dowd
 

Sorry!   Brad Shaw, CEO of Shaw Communications.

I'm looking for a wireless deal for my daughter attending high school, but I know she's gonna just slurp up the data, so I think my options are little to none unless I get her a voice/text only deal and force her to use wifi wherever she can find it...  My employer offers a very reasonable Bell voice/text only plan for employees, but as soon as you throw in any data it's a lot more than Wind's offerings.

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s $35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering $40/month.

 

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

 

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

 

Appreciate your thoughts on Wind, and whoever Brad Shaw is!  J

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.


If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about $40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind $40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

 

Keehan.

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 

 


Andrew Stott
 

I’m holding onto my grandfathered plan from Virgin Mobile (got it back when Window and Mobilicity were aggressively marketing).  I get unlimited any time Canada wide calling, VM/Caller ID, unlimited SMS/MMS, and 2 GB of data for 63.44/mo.  That includes all fees and taxes.

 

Work moved to BYOD and a month reimbursement of a set amount.  With being on the road for work I don’t have to worry about racking up long distance on my cellphone while taking work calls.  I only use about a gig of data a month, but it’s nice knowing that I have some room before I have to start worrying about overages. 

 

They want something like $85/mo for a similar voice plan, but only 500mb of data now.  Something really good will have to come along for me to change my plan.

 

Andrew

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:53 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Sorry!   Brad Shaw, CEO of Shaw Communications.

I'm looking for a wireless deal for my daughter attending high school, but I know she's gonna just slurp up the data, so I think my options are little to none unless I get her a voice/text only deal and force her to use wifi wherever she can find it...  My employer offers a very reasonable Bell voice/text only plan for employees, but as soon as you throw in any data it's a lot more than Wind's offerings.

Keehan.

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s $35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering $40/month.

 

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

 

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

 

Appreciate your thoughts on Wind, and whoever Brad Shaw is!  J

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.


If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about $40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind $40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

 

Keehan.

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 

 

 

Maurice Hilarius <mhilarius@...>
 

We knew this when it was announced.  We know what Shaw are all about.

Wonder what it would take to form a co-op?

On May 11, 2016 12:42 PM, "Keehan Dowd" <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

Keehan Dowd
 

An MVNO like they have in the 'States? 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator

I read somewhere the big three still hold the resale price too high for any MVNO to make a decent run at it here in Canada.  From what i understand, SpeakEasy and PC Mobile (and others) are essentially rebranded network resellers of Rogers and not true MVNO's and that's why they can't offer competitive data plans.

Ahhh competition is supposed to be a good thing.

Keehan.

On May 11, 2016 5:40 PM, "Maurice Hilarius" <mhilarius@...> wrote:

We knew this when it was announced.  We know what Shaw are all about.

Wonder what it would take to form a co-op?

On May 11, 2016 12:42 PM, "Keehan Dowd" <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

Maurice Hilarius <mhilarius@...>
 

Hey,  this is not a risk. Make sure you have an unlocked phone.  Wind is no contract,  so if you are not happy,  say bye bye.  So far they have good service.  I am sending this on Wind right now from Clarke Stadium

On May 11, 2016 1:27 PM, "Bart Oleksy" <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan

 

maurice <mhilarius@...>
 

On 5/11/2016 6:13 PM, Keehan Dowd wrote:

An MVNO like they have in the 'States? 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator

I read somewhere the big three still hold the resale price too high for any MVNO to make a decent run at it here in Canada.  From what i understand, SpeakEasy and PC Mobile (and others) are essentially rebranded network resellers of Rogers and not true MVNO's and that's why they can't offer competitive data plans.

Ahhh competition is supposed to be a good thing.

Keehan.

No, what I was musing about would be a true mobile data co-op.
Full infrastructure build-out.

We, as Canadians, are going to have to do something soon.
As Robelus ( well now it is Robelushaw) manager to squeeze out all real competition, data is becoming less and less affordable.

Also, as land lines are being phased out, communications, in general, is becoming unavailable.


--
Cheers,
Maurice Hilarius

Home: (780) 456-2521
Cell: (780) 906-7359
eMail: mhilarius@...

maurice <mhilarius@...>
 

At last some good news, for a change:

https://openmedia.org/en/huge-win-canadians-minister-bains-rejects-bell-canadas-attempt-block-small-providers-ultra-fast



--
Cheers,
Maurice Hilarius

Home: (780) 456-2521
Cell: (780) 906-7359
eMail: mhilarius@...

Bart Oleksy
 

That’s definitely a nice thing about Wind (no contracts)!   I was actually looking at the Mobilicity $35/month unlimited deal – last I checked Wind’s was $40/month, but I might not switch to either – depends on how energetic I feel to check into them.  J

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Maurice Hilarius
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 6:39 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Hey,  this is not a risk. Make sure you have an unlocked phone.  Wind is no contract,  so if you are not happy,  say bye bye.  So far they have good service.  I am sending this on Wind right now from Clarke Stadium

On May 11, 2016 1:27 PM, "Bart Oleksy" <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their $35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

 

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Bart

 

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

 

Silly mobile linking thingy!   Sorry 'bout that.   Here's the working link:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/rogers-communications-to-axe-mobilicity-brand-move-customers-to-chatr

Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:


Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

http://digital.edmontonjournal.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=917WX7LSHGX2&preview=article&linkid=98e9376c-0fb3-49d6-acd4-96d4ea5a7092&pdaffid=kVxEmWDiVrcfl1P8SlNFZA%3d%3d

Regards,
Keehan