Re: OT: Just how dumb are us sheep?

Gordon Haverland

The lognormal distribution is assymetric, and hence possibilities of
prices much larger than average are larger than prices much smaller
than average. One kind of expects this kind of random pricing to
return better than a constant price, if you can sell the stock I guess.

But, how I was calculating the standard deviation part of the lognormal
was dumb. I was saying the variance in price was a constant. I don't
know, maybe it is. But in this circumstance, the constant used had no
research behind it, and it need not even be close to what happens in
the real world.

One probability distribution which provides an estimate of standard
deviation as a function of size is the Poisson. Normally used for
situations where counting is involved. Sometimes used in other
situations, where some kind of "natural unit" is present, such that the
standard deviation of an estimate of N, is sqrt( N ).

Okay, I plugged something like that in to my formula, and as the penny
is no longer in circulation, I used a nickel as the natural unit. I
also did a run with the penny as the natural unit.

The Poisson distributions for nickels and pennies are quite different,
the penny distribution is much closer to symmetric. On a fractional
basis (all data divided by the mean, which will be the same for the 2
runs), the penny distribution should also be sharper. The end result
is that the amount of profit seen is quite close to the specified
markup of 30% (a tiny bit higher, could easily not be significant). I
guess the thing to do is to figure out just what unit of currency
people think in terms of, for the expected average price you are
starting from. Here, the price was in the neighbourhood of \$1. Do
more people think a dollar is 4 quarters, or 100 pennies?

--

Gord

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Bart Oleksy

That’s definitely a nice thing about Wind (no contracts)!   I was actually looking at the Mobilicity \$35/month unlimited deal – last I checked Wind’s was \$40/month, but I might not switch to either – depends on how energetic I feel to check into them.  J

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Maurice Hilarius
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 6:39 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Hey,  this is not a risk. Make sure you have an unlocked phone.  Wind is no contract,  so if you are not happy,  say bye bye.  So far they have good service.  I am sending this on Wind right now from Clarke Stadium

On May 11, 2016 1:27 PM, "Bart Oleksy" <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

maurice <mhilarius@...>

At last some good news, for a change:

--
Cheers,
Maurice Hilarius

Home: (780) 456-2521
Cell: (780) 906-7359
eMail: mhilarius@...

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

maurice <mhilarius@...>

On 5/11/2016 6:13 PM, Keehan Dowd wrote:

An MVNO like they have in the 'States?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator

I read somewhere the big three still hold the resale price too high for any MVNO to make a decent run at it here in Canada.  From what i understand, SpeakEasy and PC Mobile (and others) are essentially rebranded network resellers of Rogers and not true MVNO's and that's why they can't offer competitive data plans.

Ahhh competition is supposed to be a good thing.

Keehan.

No, what I was musing about would be a true mobile data co-op.
Full infrastructure build-out.

We, as Canadians, are going to have to do something soon.
As Robelus ( well now it is Robelushaw) manager to squeeze out all real competition, data is becoming less and less affordable.

Also, as land lines are being phased out, communications, in general, is becoming unavailable.

--
Cheers,
Maurice Hilarius

Home: (780) 456-2521
Cell: (780) 906-7359
eMail: mhilarius@...

OT: Just how dumb are us sheep?

Gordon Haverland

I was looking for something, and ended up in a set of pages at
amazon.ca where most pages of stuff, were things that were "on
target". So, I waded through 20 pages of ads on items for sale.

There were a few (2?3?) main sellers or what I was looking at, and some
minor ones.

If one just looked at one seller, they had ads for 1 item, 2 items, 3
items, 5 items, 6 items, and so on. And the price per unit varied.

Fine. What random distribution that is readily available, occurs for
positive real numbers and has finite variance? Probably lots of them,
but lognormal is common.

my \$cost = 0.15;
my \$markup = 0.3;

LOOP:
my \$z = random_normal( 1, 1, 1 );
my \$n = random_poisson( 1, 2 ) + 1;

my \$unit = exp( log( \$cost * (1 + \$markup) ) + \$markup * \$z );
\$unit = int( (\$unit + 0.005) * 100 ) / 100;
my \$bundle = \$n * \$unit;
print "Selling \$n for \$bundle\n";
goto LOOP;

which as written, loops forever. In 100 trials, I had 2 bundles sell
for (slightly) less than cost, and the incoming revenue from all the
sales was almost twice the cost.

Some item pages had statements about inventory, which could be real or
not. This process can generate bundles of number and price that have
been seen before.

What it does, is make it possible to be seen by the shopping public
many more times, than if you just bundled up everything into 5's and
sold them at one price.

Not every shopper is going to look at all pages to see the totality of
ads you have. They may look enough to see that you have the same
number of the same item multiple times. Does this stop them from
shopping at your "store"? I would imagine that some of your items,
with the higher per unit costs don't see as fast as the lower priced
items, but do they all sell eventually? Or do you have to "pull
inventory" and selling them at a lower cost?

I don't know that sellers are doing this, but it sure looks close to
what my Monte Carlo model came up with.

--

Gord

Re: Vagrant (virtual machines) and Devuan

Gordon Haverland

On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:39:57 -0600
"Gordon Haverland" <ghaverla@...> wrote:

Did they have more than 1 copy of this box
sitting around, and I am somehow still using the old (unmodified)
box?
This does seem to be what is happening.

I used a LVM command to look at the container, and it appears the
container is only 7.x GB. I am expecting it to be 30 GB.

Sure glad I am playing these games on a big disk. Having all these big
files sitting around on a small disk could get uncomfortable.

--

Gord

Re: Vagrant (virtual machines) and Devuan

Gordon Haverland

On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:15:20 -0600
"Gordon Haverland" <ghaverla@...> wrote:

Hmmm, something isn't going according to the script.

I cloned the box and converted the format from vmdk to vdi in the
process. I then resized the 7+ GB disk as 30GB. And the resulting
file is bigger. I then cloned the bigger disk and reformatted as
vmdk. Finally, I gave the new vmdk box the same filename as the
original disk.

Start up the vagrant VM and login. The disk is still full, and it
still thinks it is 7.x GB. Did they have more than 1 copy of this box
sitting around, and I am somehow still using the old (unmodified) box?
lsof can see that vagrant is keeping files open, but the names of the
files are so long they are getting chopped off.

The box has a bunch of ?v* files in /sbin, so it seems likely that the
box is using lvm. Running
fdisk -l /dev/dm-0
shows that at least according fdisk, the partition is still 7.x GB
big. Do I have to use lvm to move the partition, out into this extra
23 GB or so of space the box is supposed to have?

--

Gord

Re: Vagrant (virtual machines) and Devuan

Gordon Haverland

Hmmm, something isn't going according to the script.

I cloned the box and converted the format from vmdk to vdi in the
process. I then resized the 7+ GB disk as 30GB. And the resulting
file is bigger. I then cloned the bigger disk and reformatted as
vmdk. Finally, I gave the new vmdk box the same filename as the
original disk.

Start up the vagrant VM and login. The disk is still full, and it
still thinks it is 7.x GB. Did they have more than 1 copy of this box
sitting around, and I am somehow still using the old (unmodified) box?

--

Gord

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Maurice Hilarius <mhilarius@...>

Hey,  this is not a risk. Make sure you have an unlocked phone.  Wind is no contract,  so if you are not happy,  say bye bye.  So far they have good service.  I am sending this on Wind right now from Clarke Stadium

On May 11, 2016 1:27 PM, "Bart Oleksy" <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd

An MVNO like they have in the 'States?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator

I read somewhere the big three still hold the resale price too high for any MVNO to make a decent run at it here in Canada.  From what i understand, SpeakEasy and PC Mobile (and others) are essentially rebranded network resellers of Rogers and not true MVNO's and that's why they can't offer competitive data plans.

Ahhh competition is supposed to be a good thing.

Keehan.

On May 11, 2016 5:40 PM, "Maurice Hilarius" <mhilarius@...> wrote:

We knew this when it was announced.  We know what Shaw are all about.

Wonder what it would take to form a co-op?

On May 11, 2016 12:42 PM, "Keehan Dowd" <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Maurice Hilarius <mhilarius@...>

We knew this when it was announced.  We know what Shaw are all about.

Wonder what it would take to form a co-op?

On May 11, 2016 12:42 PM, "Keehan Dowd" <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Andrew Stott

I’m holding onto my grandfathered plan from Virgin Mobile (got it back when Window and Mobilicity were aggressively marketing).  I get unlimited any time Canada wide calling, VM/Caller ID, unlimited SMS/MMS, and 2 GB of data for 63.44/mo.  That includes all fees and taxes.

Work moved to BYOD and a month reimbursement of a set amount.  With being on the road for work I don’t have to worry about racking up long distance on my cellphone while taking work calls.  I only use about a gig of data a month, but it’s nice knowing that I have some room before I have to start worrying about overages.

They want something like \$85/mo for a similar voice plan, but only 500mb of data now.  Something really good will have to come along for me to change my plan.

Andrew

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:53 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Sorry!   Brad Shaw, CEO of Shaw Communications.

I'm looking for a wireless deal for my daughter attending high school, but I know she's gonna just slurp up the data, so I think my options are little to none unless I get her a voice/text only deal and force her to use wifi wherever she can find it...  My employer offers a very reasonable Bell voice/text only plan for employees, but as soon as you throw in any data it's a lot more than Wind's offerings.

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s \$35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering \$40/month.

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.

If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about \$40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind \$40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd

Sorry!   Brad Shaw, CEO of Shaw Communications.

I'm looking for a wireless deal for my daughter attending high school, but I know she's gonna just slurp up the data, so I think my options are little to none unless I get her a voice/text only deal and force her to use wifi wherever she can find it...  My employer offers a very reasonable Bell voice/text only plan for employees, but as soon as you throw in any data it's a lot more than Wind's offerings.

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bart Oleksy wrote:

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s \$35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering \$40/month.

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.

If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about \$40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind \$40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Bart Oleksy

Oops, I wasn’t clear – I meant I was considering Mobilicity’s \$35/month deal.  Last I checked Wind was offering \$40/month.

Wouldn’t be a big surprise if both Rogers and Shaw gave some grace period (6 months to a year) for Mobilicity/Wind customers to move to a new, ‘real’ plan, so I have to consider if it’s worth switching or not.

So far my data requirements have been fairly light, but unlimited calling/texting would be better than my current deal with Speakout.

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:42 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.

If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about \$40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind \$40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy <BARTO@...> wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd

Brad Shaw has already said publicly that the average revenue per user on Wind is too low right now and that has to change, but he hasn't yet said what's going to happen to effect that change.  Wind doesn't offer much in the way of LTE speeds for data and I accept that I have a discount service and thusly expect and 'am quite happy with a discount service.  It's a win-win.  I'm not watching Netflix or torrenting on my wireless plan.  I know there are those that do, but really wireless is a shared limited resource and that's an unavoidable fact.  What Wind provides is fine for email and browsing.

If you take out data, Wind isn't really all that different to Robelus.  The big guys all offer about \$40/mo-ish for unlimited talk/text, but data is where the costs come in.   I find that the big guys offer a couple hundred MB for a fairly light charge, but as soon as you head into the GB+ range, the costs jump.  Data is just so variable and with my Wind phone, I take comfort in my bill never being a surprise.  A typical month on my Wind \$40/mo account is a few hundred calls and texts and 2-3GB of data.   The same on the other big three would be double that or more.

If one of the big three were to offer, say, unlimited (yeah I can wish!) data or capped at several GB, but choked low speeds like, say, 512Kbps (or even lower) for a cheap price, I'd be all over that.  Do you really need 70+Mbps all the time like my company provided LTE+ Bell account provides?

Keehan.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bart Oleksy wrote:

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Bart Oleksy

I was just mildly debating switching to their \$35/month unlimited talk/text/data deal (from Speakout 7-11), but it’s not clear if they will ‘grandfather’ existing plans when the actual switch is made later.  Hmmm…

Bart

From: elug@groups.io [mailto:elug@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keehan Dowd
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:19 PM
To: elug@groups.io
Subject: Re: [elug] [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd <keehan.dowd@...> wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: [OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd

## Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chat

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Keehan Dowd wrote:

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

[OT] Rogers to axe Mobilicity, transfer to Chatr

Keehan Dowd

Be prepared Wind users....you're next!  (and I say this as a six-year Wind user).  I don't think Wind will be folded, but the service will certainly change under Shaw.

Regards,
Keehan

Re: Vagrant (virtual machines) and Devuan

Gordon Haverland

More fun with vagrant.

Knowing what gets installed on the VM doesn't just evaporate is nice.
But, what if you need to install things?

Debian has a few packages (build-essential, devscripts, maybe fakeroot)
which you probably need to build packages from source, and they will
pull in a bunch of things.

But, at the end of the day, I am wanting KDE5, so that I can see if I
can get voice recognition working. And for that, I think I need Qt5.
And the start of Qt5 means git is needed, so install that.

So, starting means using git clone to download a bunch of things.

KDE has a page on installing KDE from source, and they also have a page
on installing Qt5 from source.

First instruction is something like
./init-repository

which downloads and installs a bunch of things. Go for a coffee.

The next step is a ./configure. But Qt5 has a zillion things that can
be configured, and I sort of want this to be like what a Debian Qt5
would be like. Apt get has a build-dep command, but what to give it
for installing the mostest with the least typing?

apt-get build-dep libqt4-dev

And this gets a whole bunch of things (nothing of systemd, oh I checked
installing emacs, it seems to depend on systemd). Then I ran the
configure given in the KDE page, which sees the zillions of things
pulled in by build-dep, and almost works. After a long time, it
crashes out trying to build xcb support. Tells you to look for
something like src/blah/blah/README. Sure. do an ls. No directory
called src. Slip of the fingers, of course you are supposed to know
that src is in qtbase. Follow the path to the README, and it rattles
off a list of lib packages needed. Append that list to apt-get
install, and it doesn't like some of the names. Fine, hop over to the
Debian/packages page, and look for all libxcb- packages. I have a
couple of numbers wrong in the list (I think there was 3 errors),
install this second batch of libs, and rerun configure. Goes to
completion. Wonderful. Save the output, I might need it.

Start make running. And running. And running. Crash! Error, no disk
space left.

If you happen to have an external disk with an unused partition that is
significantly bigger than 8 GB, there may be ways to get VirtualBox
and/or vagrant to allow you to mount that partition, and you can carry

Or, you can make your box image bigger. It seems that these images
come in two varieties, vmdk and vdi. As near as I can tell, you can't
make a vmdk bigger. But, you can change a vmdk to a vdi, make the vdi
bigger, change it back to a vmdk, and put this bigger image where the
smaller image was.

I think the base image for Devuan is 8GB. I will guess that compiling
Qt5 and KDE5 is going to take more than 20GB of space. This image file
makes use of sparse file definitions. If it has unused disk space, the
file may be quite small. But it will grow as it needs to.

--

Gord

Re: Vagrant (virtual machines) and Devuan

Gordon Haverland

On Tue, 10 May 2016 10:20:16 -0600
"Gordon Haverland" <ghaverla@...> wrote:

To install
Running apt-get update inside the VM, it does download a bunch of data
from packages.devuan.org. But, if on the host machine I go looking
around that .vagrant.d directory, there are no changes to files there.

I will guess that if I were to install emacs in the VM, shutdown the
VM and then restart it, there would not be a version of emacs in the VM.

Emacs is too big a package for testing purposes, the "hello" package is
more reasonable.

I can install "hello" with apt-get, and the binary runs (and hello is
not in the base package).

I don't want to use 'vagrant destroy', as that wipes out all traces of
the vm (from the manpage), I want to use 'vagrant halt' instead. So,
halting the VM (from another shell, leaving the SSH session still
running) does result in the SSH session dying because the connection
gets closed.

If I run vagrant up and then vagrant ssh again, I again find myself as
root in the VM, and the hello program exists and works. And just to
guarantee things, running apt-get update shows there is nothing to do,
as the data is up to date. So, using halt does not remove stuff that
was installed. I presume using destroy does lose all that stuff.

--

Gord