Date
1 - 13 of 13
The 3 gocaras
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Jonothan Abbott
Hi All
There has been much discussion in recent Zoom sessions about the 3 gocara (resorts). Below is the passage from Vism Ch I, ‘Description of Virtue’, (Ppn translation) dealing with them. The essence is the following: 49. (Proper) resort is of three kinds: (proper) resort as support, (proper) resort as guarding, and (proper) resort as anchoring.
Herein, what is (proper) resort as support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk, in whose presence one hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt, rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort as support.
50. What is (proper) resort as guarding? Here “A bhikkhu, having entered inside a house, having gone into a street, goes with downcast eyes, seeing the length of a plough yoke, restrained, not looking at an elephant, not looking at a horse, a carriage, a pedestrian, a woman, a man, not looking up, not looking down, not staring this way and that” (Nidd I 474). This is called (proper) resort as guarding.
51. What is (proper) resort as anchoring? It is the four foundations of mindfulness on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed One: “Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu’s resort, his own native place? It is these four foundations of mindfulness” (S V 148). This is called (proper) resort as anchoring.
The passage below gives more context.
Jon
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From Path of Purification, Ch I
42. 17. In the fourth tetrad:
(a) The virtue described by the Blessed One thus: “Here a bhikkhu dwells restrained with the Pátimokkha restraint, possessed of the [proper] conduct and resort, and seeing fear in the slightest fault, he trains himself by undertaking the precepts of training, (Vibh 244)” is virtue of Pátimokkha restraint.
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44. The meaning of possessed of [the proper] conduct and resort, etc., should be understood in the way in which it is given in the text. For this is said: “Possessed of [the proper] conduct and resort: there is [proper] conduct and improper conduct. Herein, what is improper conduct? Bodily transgression, verbal transgression, bodily and verbal transgression—this is called improper conduct. Also all unvirtuousness is improper conduct. ... Herein, what is [proper] conduct? Bodily non-transgression, verbal non-transgression, bodily and verbal non-transgression— this is called [proper] conduct. Also all restraint through virtue is [proper] conduct. ...
45. “[Proper] resort: there is [proper] resort and improper resort.
Herein, what is improper resort?
Here someone has prostitutes as resort, or he has widows, old maids, eunuchs, bhikkhunìs, or taverns as resort; or he dwells associated with kings, kings’ ministers, sectarians, sectarians’ disciples, in unbecoming association with laymen; or he cultivates, frequents, honours, such families as are faithless, untrusting, abusive and rude, who wish harm, wish ill, wish woe, wish no surcease of bondage, for bhikkhus and bhikkhunìs, for male and female devotees [18]—this is called improper resort.
Herein, what is [proper] resort?
Here someone does not have prostitutes as resort … or taverns as resort; he does not dwell associated with kings … sectarians’ disciples, in unbecoming association with laymen; he cultivates, frequents, honours, such families as are faithful and trusting, who are a solace, where the yellow cloth glows, where the breeze of sages blows, who wish good, wish well, wish joy, wish surcease of bondage, for bhikkhus and bhikkhunìs, for male and female devotees—this is called [proper] resort.
Thus he is furnished with, fully furnished with, provided with, fully provided with, supplied with, possessed of, endowed with, this [proper] conduct and this [proper] resort. Hence it is said, ’Possessed of [the proper] conduct and resort’” (Vibh 246–47).
46. Furthermore, [proper] conduct and resort should also be understood here in the following way; for improper conduct is twofold as bodily and verbal. Herein, what is bodily improper conduct? ...
[47, 48. Proper/improper conduct]
49. (Proper) resort is of three kinds: (proper) resort as support, (proper) resort as guarding, and (proper) resort as anchoring.
Herein, what is (proper) resort as support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk, in whose presence one hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt, rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort as support.
50. What is (proper) resort as guarding? Here “A bhikkhu, having entered inside a house, having gone into a street, goes with downcast eyes, seeing the length of a plough yoke, restrained, not looking at an elephant, not looking at a horse, a carriage, a pedestrian, a woman, a man, not looking up, not looking down, not staring this way and that” (Nidd I 474). This is called (proper) resort as guarding.
51. What is (proper) resort as anchoring? It is the four foundations of mindfulness on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed One: “Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu’s resort, his own native place? It is these four foundations of mindfulness” (S V 148). This is called (proper) resort as anchoring.
Being thus furnished with … endowed with, this (proper) conduct and this (proper) resort, he is also on that account called “one possessed of (proper) conduct and resort.”
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nina
Dear Jonothan,,
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Thank you very much for the texts. I shall use these for others. Nina.
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Hi Jon, “Herein, what is (proper) resort as support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk, in whose presence one hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt, rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort as support.“ R: So we have the hearing and discussing of the teachings and then we have “training”. I’m wondering what that means... Roti On Mon, 5 Oct 2563 at 05:49 Jonothan Abbott <jonabbott@...> wrote:
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Roti |
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nina
Dear Roti
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Developing understanding, all by conditions. Nina
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Jonothan Abbott
Hi Roti
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On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 09:40 PM, Roti wrote:
As I read it, the passages is saying:
- association with a good friend is a proper resort for a bhikkhu (or for anyone developing the path)
- that resort can be a support in either of 2 ways: one hears the Dhamma as explained by the good friend, or one has such good friend as his/her teacher or preceptor
In short, ‘training’ refers to being in a pupil/teacher relationship with the other.
Jon |
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Hi Jon, J: In short, ‘training’ refers to being in a pupil/teacher relationship with the other. R: Thanks, this makes sense. Roti |
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szmicio
Hi Jon, Roti
Jon: As I read it, the passages is saying: - association with a good friend is a proper resort for a bhikkhu (or for anyone developing the path)
- that resort can be a support in either of 2 ways: one hears the Dhamma as explained by the good friend, or one has such good friend as his/her teacher or preceptor
In short, ‘training’ refers to being in a pupil/teacher relationship with the other.
Lukas: Right, Jon, you're right. Either being a good friend or having a good friend in my reckoning, the same as you quoted: “Herein, what is (proper) resort as support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk, in whose presence one hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt, rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort as support.“
Lukas: That is right I reckon, but what is an exact pali for the phrase a '(proper) resort as support'? I mean proper Thanks a lot for that. I am still unclear and stacked with a bhikkhus restraints as a protection resort and also anchoring resort(proper). Would like to hear more on those two if you have a spare time only, or anyone else. So upanisay gocara(sama?) is being a good friend to others or having a good friend. It's kalyanamitta as I reckon, ain't it? Thanks a lot Lukas |
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Jonothan Abbott
Hi Lukas
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On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:56 AM, szmicio wrote: Hi Jon, Roti The term ‘gocara’ translated mostly as ‘resort’, occurs numerous times in the suttas in the context of a bhikku’s ‘conduct and resort’, as in the following passage from MN6 Ākankheyya Sutta ('If a Bhikkhu Should Wish', MLDB p115):
“Bhikkhus, dwell possessed of virtue, possessed of the Pātimokkha, restrained with the restraint of the Pātimokkha, perfect in conduct and resort [gocara], and seeing fear in the slightest fault, train by undertaking the training precepts."
Elsewhere in the suttas it is explained that a bhikkhu’s proper resort is the four foundations/applications of mindfulness:
SN 47:6 The Hawk (CDB p1632)
“Move in your own resort [gocara], bhikkhus, in your own ancestral domain. Māra will not gain access to those who move in their own resort, in their own ancestral domain; Māra will not get a hold on them.
“And what is a bhikkhu’s resort, his own ancestral domain? It is the four establishments of mindfulness.”
and
MN 33 Mahāgopālaka Sutta (The Greater Discourse on the Cowherd, MLDB p313)
“Bhikkhus, when a cowherd possesses eleven factors, he is incapable of keeping and rearing a herd of cattle. What eleven? Here a cowherd has no knowledge of form, ... he is unskilled in pastures [gocara], ...
“So too, bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu possesses eleven qualities, he is incapable of growth, increase, and fulfilment in this Dhamma and Discipline. What eleven? Here a bhikkhu has no knowledge of form, ... he is unskilled in pastures [gocara], ...
“How is a bhikkhu unskilled in pastures? Here a bhikkhu does not understand the four foundations of mindfulness as they actually are. That is how a bhikkhu is unskilled in pastures [gocara]." As far as I can tell, the term ‘gocara’ implies a proper/suitable resort, while the term ‘agocara’ is used when the meaning is improper/unsuitable resort.
Jon |
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szmicio
Hi Jon, since I m on my phone have no internet on the house. I can't read you properly. I m on my old and only one phone iPhone 4s and really can't read u properly. Please can u use your name or initials before your message. Otherwise I can't be sure where is my message and yours. As to cariya gocara. So the behaviour a resort. Cowherd for me is like pasture and Jesus Christ himself he was a Shepard. And not only for cows but also for people. Thanks for Quoting from Texts qocara. I have no internet can't check. But I strongly doubt Ajahn Sujin cariya is that and gocara that. Texts saying something else gross. I wish I could only belife AS because it seems true like vinayacaryia and 3 gocaras. But as you quoted it is sutra and vinayacaryia more gross then abhi. I know very well the teachings of Ajahn Sujin and now I am full of doubt. I want to belife. But u see you quoted something that does not confirm only what Ajahn Sujin is preaching. Lukas
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Hi Lukas
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On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 04:33 AM, szmicio wrote: Hi Jon, since I m on my phone have no internet on the house. I can't read you properly. I m on my old and only one phone iPhone 4s and really can't read u properly. Please can u use your name or initials before your message. Otherwise I can't be sure where is my message and yours. Jon: OK, in future will do as you suggest.
To summarise, you had asked:
“What is an exact pali for the phrase a '(proper) resort as support'? I mean proper.”
As far as I can tell, there is no specific mention of ‘proper’, there is just mention of resort (this is no doubt why ‘proper’ is shown in brackets in the translation – see extract at end of this message). It seems that the term ‘gocara’ already implies a ‘proper’ or ‘suitable’ resort. When an improper or unsuitable resort is intended, the term ‘agocara’ is used.
L: As to cariya gocara. So the behaviour a resort. Cowherd for me is like pasture and Jesus Christ himself he was a Shepard. And not only for cows but also for people. Thanks for Quoting from Texts qocara. I have no internet can't check. But I strongly doubt Ajahn Sujin cariya is that and gocara that. Texts saying something else gross. I wish I could only belife AS because it seems true like vinayacaryia and 3 gocaras. But as you quoted it is sutra and vinayacaryia more gross then abhi. I know very well the teachings of Ajahn Sujin and now I am full of doubt. I want to belife. But u see you quoted something that does not confirm only what Ajahn Sujin is preaching. Jon: The 3 gocaras are: upanissaya gocara, arakkhaa gocara and upanibandha gocara. I am not familiar with the term ‘cariya gocara’ or ‘vinaya gocara’. However, Ajahn Sujin’s explanation is in line with the texts,
Jon
From Vism Ch I, ‘Description of Virtue’, (Ppn translation):
49. (Proper) resort is of three kinds: (proper) resort as support, (proper) resort as guarding, and (proper) resort as anchoring [J: upanissaya gocara, aarikkhaa gocara, upanibandha gocara].
Herein, what is (proper) resort as support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk, in whose presence one hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt, rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort as support.
50. What is (proper) resort as guarding? Here “A bhikkhu, having entered inside a house, having gone into a street, goes with downcast eyes, seeing the length of a plough yoke, restrained, not looking at an elephant, not looking at a horse, a carriage, a pedestrian, a woman, a man, not looking up, not looking down, not staring this way and that” (Nidd I 474). This is called (proper) resort as guarding.
51. What is (proper) resort as anchoring? It is the four foundations of mindfulness on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed One: “Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu’s resort, his own native place? It is these four foundations of mindfulness” (S V 148). This is called (proper) resort as anchoring.
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nina
Dear Jon,
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Should arikkhaa not be: arakkhaa? Nina.
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Jonothan Abbott
Hi Nina
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On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 08:06 PM, nina wrote: Dear Jon, Thanks for the correction. I have edited the original to make the change. Jon |
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Thank you, Jonothan. tadao
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