Dear friends,

Acharn: Is there at this moment more understanding of what we are talking about, more than last time? It develops by itself, with sankhara khandha, no one at all. It (reality) appears to ignorance or to pañña which begins to know its characteristic. It cannot be changed to be someone, it has to be as it is. Just as natural as usual. 

How many times a day do you think about the teachings, even about one word. It is very rare. Even thinking is there, one knows, it is by conditions. How very little. That is the way it is. Because ignorance and all akusala have been accumulated from aeons and aeons. It takes a long time to be truthful. How much understanding is there of that which now appears to seeing, not as it is, until it is as it is. How much patience? 

Tam: The paramis cannot be developed witout understanding. At the moment of understanding the paramis are developed. In one of the Vietnamese discussions you spoke about someone who was very stingy but who could still attain enlightenment?

Acharn: If there is no understanding of the nature of stinginess, as no one, no self, can there be enlightenment? 

Tam: No.

Acharn: Like Angulima (N: who murdered many). The accumulation of pañña is there enough to condition the understanding of the truth at that moment. The asayanusaya (asaya is the accumulated kusala and akusala, and anusaya are the unwholesome latent tendencies) is the accumulation of kusala and akusala. So long as the anusaya is there, how can you elimiate (akusala) stage by stage. That is why we have to understand not only anusaya, latent tendencies, but also asaya. There is asaya as parami as well.

But the conditions are not right yet. No one can make it right to be a condition for such  a moment of understanding. It is not known before when understanding and awareness will arise and what object they take. 

When we are clinging to the idea of self there must be doubt and desire. There is natural life as usual, not self, only nama and rupa. One is relieved not to try or to rush to attain such knowledge.

—————-

Nina.

Dear Ann,

Good question. There are seven akusala cetasikas mentioned as anusayas, as you know: sensuous greed, aversion, etc. They are in particular very tenacious, powerful, and are eradicated stage by stage by lokuttara cittas. They do not arise but condition the arising of akusala citta when there is an opportunity. They remind us that nobody can do anything, except lokuttara citta. For example, I am sensitive to harsh sounds and when the doorbell rings my body contracts already in fright before I know what it is. There is no one. All akusala is accumulated, included in asaya, true, but the anusayas are special in their power an stubbornness.

Nina. 

Op 17 sep. 2020, om 04:51 heeft ann marshall <annmarshall2249@...> het volgende geschreven:

 In any event, can you please say more about the difference between the latent tendencies carried in the citta and accumulated akusala that is asaya.

Ann

As referred to in the discussion:

Akusala asaya is, then, the akusala that we begin to recognize as such By thinking life by thinking about it ( as distinct from direct understanding and awareness). 

S: All the asaya, no matter kusala or akusala like latent in each citta, not arising at all but conditioning the arising of kusala and akusala cittas. Hence these asaya are never appear and are never recognised. Only when the akusala cetasikas arise can they be known by paññā, leading to their eventual eradication. For example, diṭṭhi (wrong view) can only be understood when it appears. If it never appears (such is an animal realm), it can never be understood or eradicated.

A: I can see how, without understanding about anusaya, one can be deluded by ignorance into thinking that understanding is greater than it is. Hearing about anusaya can condition more appreciation of the immense depth and subtlety of the Dhamma.  

S: Yes, that's true, the great, unknown ocean of defilements which is completely hidden. Without these anusaya, there would never be the arising of any defilements at all.

Sarah

 

 

 

Thanks Sarah

Clear now. 

I realize  that in the first part of my post to which you refer I have used anusaya where it should be asava. 

     Asava is, then, the akusala that we 

     begin to recognize as such by              

     thinking about it ( as distinct  from direct understanding and awareness).

Similarly with the second reference - understanding about both anusaya and asava is necessary to appreciate the depth and subtlety of the Dhamma and immense amount of ignorance there is. 

Ann

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 1:20 AM Sarah Abbott via groups.io <sarahprocterabbott=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Ann

As referred to in the discussion:

Akusala asaya is, then, the akusala that we begin to recognize as such By thinking life by thinking about it ( as distinct from direct understanding and awareness). 

S: All the asaya, no matter kusala or akusala like latent in each citta, not arising at all but conditioning the arising of kusala and akusala cittas. Hence these asaya are never appear and are never recognised. Only when the akusala cetasikas arise can they be known by paññā, leading to their eventual eradication. For example, diṭṭhi (wrong view) can only be understood when it appears. If it never appears (such is an animal realm), it can never be understood or eradicated.

A: I can see how, without understanding about anusaya, one can be deluded by ignorance into thinking that understanding is greater than it is. Hearing about anusaya can condition more appreciation of the immense depth and subtlety of the Dhamma.  

S: Yes, that's true, the great, unknown ocean of defilements which is completely hidden. Without these anusaya, there would never be the arising of any defilements at all.

Sarah