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Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners
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Annie
Klaus, I will share my samples from preservation using distilled water alone... say after 6 months of preservation? Only you guys could evaluate it as good material for fixation. Thank you. Annie F.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Klaus Kemp <klaus.kemp@...> wrote:
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Annie
Charles, Stephen and Zlatko: Thanks so much for the info re distilled water use. My intention is just to enumerate the diatoms i extracted from the guts. I'm trying to skip the slide fixation part. I got a full time job and got to sink my thesis work after. I checked the samples and they are still readable after a month. I hope to keep about 150 samples stored in distilled water (1mL) in 1.5mL vials for three months. That's enough time for me to do check them after working hours.
I'd really love to do the slide fixation. Get new samples later. Really amazed by diatom structures. hopefully I can do that after I graduate. Annie F.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM, charles suslavage <suslavage@...> wrote:
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Charles Suslavage
Hello Zlatko, Thank you, very interesting. I store my samples in distilled water plus alcohol and I have samples from another source that have been stored similarly and have not noted any problems. But I and my friend are only working with the light microscope. I normally make three slides of any sample I acquire and if it is very interesting or rich with diversity I'll make six so I do not often return to my samples. My oldest sample is just five years old of Cocconeis. I'll make a new slide from this sample and compare it to the original slides, should be interesting. Charles From: Zlatko Levkov To: diatom_forum@... Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners Dear Charles
There is a problem with preservation of diatoms in distillate water. According to my experience, after a week or two, the diatoms start to dissolute and some valve are highly corroded. Such sample cannot be used for SEM at all, but also the slides made from older cleaned sample are with very low quality. I learned from the Hustedt collection in Bremerhaven (Hustedt kept only cleaned samples) that one possible solution is to keep the samples in glycerine. After cleaning the samples and several washing with water, we are discharging the water and a small amount of glycerine is added to the sediment (diatoms). Such conserved sample can be used for several years (at least). However, according to my experience the best way is to keep the original sample (not clean). Hope this will help you to keep the samples little bit longer Zlatko -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 2/28/14, charles suslavage wrote: Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners To: "diatom_forum@..." Date: Friday, February 28, 2014, 12:23 AM Hello Annie,With respect to cleaned diatom samples storing them in distilled water is the normal procedure.The diatom frustule is made of silica and as far as you and I are concerned will last forever when stored in distilled water.Charles From: "Franco, Annie V." To: diatom_forum@... Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners Hello all, I read in the article of Zhang et al. 2010 that he followed Norman-Boudreau's technique in extraction of diatoms from guts of abalone. but he preserved his diatom samples in distilled water instead of fixing it in slides w/ high refractive media for enumeration of the diatoms. Can anybody react to this? Anybody done this procedure? Will the samples stay preserved in distilled water? for how long? AnnieOn Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Stephen S. Nagy wrote: There are a number of articles here about cleaning and collecting diatoms: http://www.diatomsireland.com/diatom-cleaning/?mobile=1 Best wishes, Stephen NagyHelena, MT Sent from my iPhone
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Klaus Kemp <klaus.kemp@...>
Hello Annie,
I will probably get hate mail
after my posting, but be aware of what has happened to some of my samples.
Firstly I have four major collections and frequently find samples that have
clearly not been preserved and the tube is full of fungal hyphae, which has then
to be recleaned, however the other thing I find frustrating is the sample
which is preserved in Formaldehyde, this as has been explained to me by a
chemist creates paraformaldehyde and causes any strew to create spurious images
when mounted up and also sticks them down on the slide and prevents me picking
them up. I am aware that Formaldehyde has now been kicked out of laboratories,
however the best solution I have found to prevent fungus developement is a weak
solution of Phenol which I know is also banned ( I can remember as a youth
being told to gargle in a weak solution if I had a sore throat, fortunately I
have survived this to a reasonable old age without any after
effects)
As to Diatom deterioation of
samples stored in liquid, I have never found any damage to the finer
structures or the alveoli of Mastogloia of which I have several
hundred if not over a thousand SEM images, my question is why would an organism
that thrives in a water environment choose to do so with a structure that
disolves in that environment?
If you follow the advice of no
preservative, would you be kind enough to put a posting back to the group if
your samples develop a fungal growth.
Regards
Klaus
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Zlatko Levkov
Dear Charles
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
There is a problem with preservation of diatoms in distillate water. According to my experience, after a week or two, the diatoms start to dissolute and some valve are highly corroded. Such sample cannot be used for SEM at all, but also the slides made from older cleaned sample are with very low quality. I learned from the Hustedt collection in Bremerhaven (Hustedt kept only cleaned samples) that one possible solution is to keep the samples in glycerine. After cleaning the samples and several washing with water, we are discharging the water and a small amount of glycerine is added to the sediment (diatoms). Such conserved sample can be used for several years (at least). However, according to my experience the best way is to keep the original sample (not clean). Hope this will help you to keep the samples little bit longer Zlatko --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 2/28/14, charles suslavage <suslavage@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners To: "diatom_forum@..." <diatom_forum@...> Date: Friday, February 28, 2014, 12:23 AM Hello Annie,With respect to cleaned diatom samples storing them in distilled water is the normal procedure.The diatom frustule is made of silica and as far as you and I are concerned will last forever when stored in distilled water.Charles From: "Franco, Annie V." <avfranco@...> To: diatom_forum@... Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners Hello all, I read in the article of Zhang et al. 2010 that he followed Norman-Boudreau's technique in extraction of diatoms from guts of abalone. but he preserved his diatom samples in distilled water instead of fixing it in slides w/ high refractive media for enumeration of the diatoms. Can anybody react to this? Anybody done this procedure? Will the samples stay preserved in distilled water? for how long? AnnieOn Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Stephen S. Nagy <snagymd@...> wrote: There are a number of articles here about cleaning and collecting diatoms: http://www.diatomsireland.com/diatom-cleaning/?mobile=1 Best wishes, Stephen NagyHelena, MT Sent from my iPhone
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Charles Suslavage
Hello Annie, With respect to cleaned diatom samples storing them in distilled water is the normal procedure. The diatom frustule is made of silica and as far as you and I are concerned will last forever when stored in distilled water. Charles From: "Franco, Annie V."
<avfranco@...> To: diatom_forum@... Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [diatom_forum] Re: Diatom Collecting & Cleaning For Beginners Hello all, I read in the article of Zhang et al. 2010 that he followed Norman-Boudreau's technique in extraction of diatoms from guts of abalone. but he preserved his diatom samples in distilled water instead of fixing it in slides w/ high refractive media for enumeration of the diatoms. Can anybody react to this? Anybody done this procedure? Will the samples stay preserved in distilled water? for how long?
Annie
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Annie
Hello all, I read in the article of Zhang et al. 2010 that he followed Norman-Boudreau's technique in extraction of diatoms from guts of abalone. but he preserved his diatom samples in distilled water instead of fixing it in slides w/ high refractive media for enumeration of the diatoms. Can anybody react to this? Anybody done this procedure? Will the samples stay preserved in distilled water? for how long?
Annie
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Stephen S. Nagy <snagymd@...> wrote:
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Stephen S. Nagy
There are a number of articles here about cleaning and collecting diatoms: Best wishes, Stephen Nagy Helena, MT
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Andy Robins <andy.robins@...>
The location for the start of the three part series on collecting and cleaning diatoms is The chemical used in the cleaning process is ordinary household drain cleaner!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrhSqu8YCBo
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Charles Suslavage
Hello Kurt, Welcome to the group. You should download 'An Introduction to the Microscopical Study of Diatoms' by the late Robert B McLaughlin. It is available as a free download from Modern Microscopy, http://www.modernmicroscopy.com/main.asp?article=105 A very informative work! Should get you pointed in the right direction. Charles
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There are some really fine YouTube videos from Japan, in a number of languages, that show how to do this. Look for stuff from "diatomp". Mike Andrews, W5EGO WWME Oklahoma area executive team
On Feb 16, 2014, at 10:06 AM, <NGC704@...> wrote:
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Kurt Maurer
Greetings, All:
I am a retired, self-educated, enthusiast who has been dabbling in astronomy and microscopy among other things as hobbies for some years. In microscopy, I struggle to learn general laboratory methods and techniques such as sample collection, preparation, and the handling of wee things. I wish to poll this group for advice, suggestions, tips, etc., for how to get an untrained ape to handle diatoms. Specifically, I'd like to be able to collect, clean, and make my own strew slides. I understand there may be a lot to it, and eclipsing Mr. Kemp with my newfound skill is unlikely anytime soon. I have some Pleurax and Cytoseal, plus slides, coverslips, and an iron to use for a hot plate. I purchased the Pleurax along with a cleaned diatom sample from Michel Haak to get started, and have been corresponding with him. Now I want to obtain my own samples. I have Googled the terms "how to collect diatoms" and "how to clean" diatoms many times and scoured the various web sites, but most suggest expensive equipment and/or employing lab techniques and/or materials (like dangerous acids, yikes) that are rather beyond my reach. In short, I would like to keep this as simple, basic, and inexpensive as possible ... if possible. Thank you. Cheers, Kurt Maurer League City, Texas
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