Topics

14.070.0 not pulling to 14.074.0 for the 20 meter DSB

John
 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

John K2JHU...

Steven Weber
 

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

John
 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.
There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

Steven Weber
 

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

John
 

Both crystals say 14.070

K2jhu

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

Steven Weber
 

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

John
 

Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

Adam Rong
 

John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

John
 

Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

Adam Rong
 

John,

Make sure the oscillator capacitors used with 14.070 crystal are 15p and 27p. If not, you are referring to the wrong part list.

Make sure the way to measure the frequency is correct. Your probe will introduce capacitance and it will impact oscillating frequency.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午6:44,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

John
 

Thank you for getting back to me. My C2 in marked 27J and C3 is marked 150 which we assumed is the 15 as different manufactures have different markings on there parts. Also the way i determined the oscillating frequency was to place a short wire into the antenna input of my FT-817 and placing the D4D board near the radio which resulted in a strong signal at 14.070 and nothing at 14.074.

John K2JHU


On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:51 AM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

Make sure the oscillator capacitors used with 14.070 crystal are 15p and 27p. If not, you are referring to the wrong part list.

Make sure the way to measure the frequency is correct. Your probe will introduce capacitance and it will impact oscillating frequency.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午6:44,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

John
 

my mistake. C2 is the 150 and C3 the 27.
John K2JHU...

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 7:30 AM John via Groups.Io <johnk2jhu=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thank you for getting back to me. My C2 in marked 27J and C3 is marked 150 which we assumed is the 15 as different manufactures have different markings on there parts. Also the way i determined the oscillating frequency was to place a short wire into the antenna input of my FT-817 and placing the D4D board near the radio which resulted in a strong signal at 14.070 and nothing at 14.074.

John K2JHU

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:51 AM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

Make sure the oscillator capacitors used with 14.070 crystal are 15p and 27p. If not, you are referring to the wrong part list.

Make sure the way to measure the frequency is correct. Your probe will introduce capacitance and it will impact oscillating frequency.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午6:44,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

John
 

Adam I hope you can forgive me but after checking the part placement for these two capacitors at least a dozen times I just noticed I have C2 and C3 swapped. I have to go out soon but when I retire I will change them and retest. I will let you know what happens. 

John K2JHU...

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:51 AM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

Make sure the oscillator capacitors used with 14.070 crystal are 15p and 27p. If not, you are referring to the wrong part list.

Make sure the way to measure the frequency is correct. Your probe will introduce capacitance and it will impact oscillating frequency.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午6:44,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

Adam Rong
 

How the crystal is pulled:

John,

When it is working with 15p and 27p, 15p and 27p will give about 15*27/(15+27)p capacitance in parallel and it is lower than the load capacitance of the crystal so it will pull high the frequency. Steve’s way to use a trimmer capacitor is also okay but it will add complexity for alignment as I don’t have to get an exact frequency of 14070, as 200-400 Hz tolerance will be fine.

As I explained in another thread, the leaked carrier should be received in zero beat way in SSB mode. It is good that you are testing frequency with air coupling. When you receive at 14070, if you receive a high pitch tone in USB mode, the leaked carrier is way higher than 14070. And you cannot receive any at 14074 USB because the carrier is zero beat or on the other side band due to frequency tolerance. You only can receive when it is modulated by audio.

I have sold more than 200 kits already and most of them are 20m version with 14070 crystals. I don’t suspect something is wrong in theory. So if you cannot get through this step, you can go further and actually receive something to verify. Good luck.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午8:30,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Thank you for getting back to me. My C2 in marked 27J and C3 is marked 150 which we assumed is the 15 as different manufactures have different markings on there parts. Also the way i determined the oscillating frequency was to place a short wire into the antenna input of my FT-817 and placing the D4D board near the radio which resulted in a strong signal at 14.070 and nothing at 14.074.

John K2JHU

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:51 AM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

Make sure the oscillator capacitors used with 14.070 crystal are 15p and 27p. If not, you are referring to the wrong part list.

Make sure the way to measure the frequency is correct. Your probe will introduce capacitance and it will impact oscillating frequency.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,下午6:44,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Adam this did not help. The documentation and schematic say for the 20 meter version of the kit the 14.070 crystal is pulled to the ft8 frequency of 14.074. My unit does not pull the 14.070 crystal frequency to 14.074. There for not working for ft8. What could cause this problem.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 7:05 PM Adam Rong <rongxh@...> wrote:
John,

See this thread.

14.070 crystal is okay for filter with relatively big insertion loss.

Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月12日,上午4:32,John <johnk2jhu@...> 写道:


Well I don't understand. They sell lots these kits. Not sure how many are for 20 meters as the 20 meter kits are the only ones that pull the crystal frequency. I think I will contact the owner of crkits and see what he has to say. Thank you very much for your time.

John K2JHU...

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Then your out of luck. You can probably pull the oscillator crystal up 4 kHz with a series trimmer, or at least get it in the ball park. That’s about the limit you can go and retain stability.

 

But you’ll be way off center pass of the crystal in the receiver leg and there’s no good way to change that. The receiver will be exceptionally deaf. A L/C tuned circuit could be substituted for the crystal.

 

KD1JV  

 

 

Both crystals say 14.070

 

K2jhu

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:57 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

What frequency is the crystal cut for?

KD1JV

 

 

OK I understand what you are saying. The problem I am having is for the 20 meter D4D kit from crkits.

There are 2 caps, one from pin 7 of the NE602 to ground and one going between pins 6 and 7 and one side of the crystal with the other side of the crystal being grounded. The signal I have is strong but not on 14.074.00

 

John K2JHU...

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:36 PM Steven Weber <steve.kd1jv@...> wrote:

Capacitive loading lowers the crystal frequency, which are typically the two caps on the SA602/612 pins 6 and 7.  But if you have a 14.070 crystal but really want to be on 14.074, you need to put a capacitor in series with the  crystal to rise it’s frequency. This is best done with a trimmer cap, a 30pfd trimmer cap would likely do the trick.

 

Steve KD1JV

 

Hi all. Hoping someone can advise me what causes the pulling of the 14.070.0 crystal to 14.074.0 In step 3 of the manual it states by adding a wire to the antenna termanual of your transceiver and placing the DSB board near the wire you can zero beat to confirm the frequency. The zero beat approach works fine except my unit in on 14.070.0 the crystal frequency, not the pulled 14.074.0. I don't know what actually pulls the frequency so if anyone can help me with this I truly would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

 

John K2JHU...

 

 

 

Adam Rong
 

My bad for typo with underline.

When it is working with 15p and 27p, 15p and 27p will give about 15*27/(15+27)p capacitance in parallel and it is lower than the load capacitance of the crystal so it will pull high the frequency. Steve’s way to use a trimmer capacitor is also okay but it will add complexity for alignment as I don’t have to get an exact frequency of 14074, as 200-400 Hz tolerance will be fine.


Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月13日,上午6:40,Adam Rong via Groups.Io <rongxh@...> 写道:

How the crystal is pulled:

John,

When it is working with 15p and 27p, 15p and 27p will give about 15*27/(15+27)p capacitance in parallel and it is lower than the load capacitance of the crystal so it will pull high the frequency. Steve’s way to use a trimmer capacitor is also okay but it will add complexity for alignment as I don’t have to get an exact frequency of 14070, as 200-400 Hz tolerance will be fine.

Conor Farrell
 

Hi John,

For what it's worth, I built two D4D kits and did effectively no real testing (my bad!): but in both cases the kits worked out perfectly. I just followed the instructions carefully and made sure my solder joints were good. So, like Adam said, if this particular test isn't working as you expect it to, don't worry too much about it.

Conor

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 22:44 Adam Rong, <rongxh@...> wrote:
My bad for typo with underline.

When it is working with 15p and 27p, 15p and 27p will give about 15*27/(15+27)p capacitance in parallel and it is lower than the load capacitance of the crystal so it will pull high the frequency. Steve’s way to use a trimmer capacitor is also okay but it will add complexity for alignment as I don’t have to get an exact frequency of 14074, as 200-400 Hz tolerance will be fine.


Thanks,
Adam

在 2019年11月13日,上午6:40,Adam Rong via Groups.Io <rongxh=gmail.com@groups.io> 写道:

How the crystal is pulled:

John,

When it is working with 15p and 27p, 15p and 27p will give about 15*27/(15+27)p capacitance in parallel and it is lower than the load capacitance of the crystal so it will pull high the frequency. Steve’s way to use a trimmer capacitor is also okay but it will add complexity for alignment as I don’t have to get an exact frequency of 14070, as 200-400 Hz tolerance will be fine.