Date   
Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Joe Blackburn
 

The manual for the CDP18S604B is in the files section - no folder:

"RCA Microboard 18S604B Manual"

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Joe Blackburn
 
Edited

Marcel

https://archive.org/details/mb600rcacmosmicroboardcomputer18s600

I'll try to get to the 601. I think the CDP18S604 is in the files section, but I will check.

Yes, it appears that the boards use UT4 or similar, depending on what system they going into, or whether used in direct automation, etc. The Clock speed also depends on what the target is, and what other micro boards are installed.

One scenario is essentially the same as the CDP18S607 or CDP18S602 boards. Similar configuration and arrangement. It will work very nicely with the ROM arrangement that Herb Johnson has on his CDP18S652B Memory and Tape I/O Board. That is:

- CDP18SUT62 Monitor/Utility
- Three Editor/Assembler/Debugger ROMS
- Six BASIC ROMS

or 

with a similar arrangement using the CDP18S626 32/64 Kilobyte ROM/PROM/RAM

or

Standalone with the CDP18S640/641 Control/Display Module (UT60 or 61)

The last scenario with the Control Display would a good emulation, as it has the switches/displays like the ELF's! The 18S640/641 also has connector J1 to connect a Microterminal. The Control Display has one socket for the Monitor/Utility, and one free socket for a second ROM.

A note about chronology: The two Z80 cards and the CDP18S600 are the last, chronologically. They were released in 1983. My docs are mostly late '82 or 1983. They didn't make it into the '83 Microsystems Databook. I have no docs from '84.

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Marcel van Tongeren
 

Joe, thanks again for the clarifications!

I'm kinda ignoring the Z80 boards as I see that as outside of the Emma 02 scope, i.e. I don't intend to add a Z80 emulator for the moment. I have actually coded on the Z80 but it has been a while ago.

Any chance you can scan the MB-600, 601 and 604 manuals for me?

If the standalone boards run on any UT version, starting from UT4, then adding emulators for those should be fairly easy (that is if I have a copy of the manual).

Cheers, Marcel.

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Joe Blackburn
 
Edited

That looks roughly correct. I think we have a copy of SSD-230 RCA Microsystems Databook (1982) in the files section. If not, it's available on archive.org

The Databook has photos, and states which CPU and clock speeds, as well as which ones are useable as stand-alone as well as in the CDS/MCDS. A few are missing, as they came out in '83. And the CDP18S600 is not included.

The CDP18S600 doesn't list a specific ROM. The manual says "The CDP18S600 may be installed in CDP18S008, MS2000. or CDP18S693, 694, or 695 development systems, or in the CDP18S670 MSI series industrial chassis." So the ROM may vary depending on which system it gets integrated into. UT4 seems to be the common starting point. The full manual is MB-600.

Note: I have the actual manuals (MB-600, MB-601, MB-604).

- CDP18S020 running on 1802
- CDS I, CDP18S004 running on 1802 - standard CPU is CDP18S102 - 1802 card.
- CDS II, CDP18S005 running on 1802 - standard CPU is CDP18S102 - 1802 card.
- CDS III, CDP18S007 running on 1802 - standard CPU is CDP18S102V1 - 1802 card @ 2.5Hz.
- CDS IV, CDP18S008 running on 1805, 4 or 2 - standard CPU is CDP18S605 - 1802/1804 card.
- MCDS, CDP18S693/694 running on 1802, or when using the CDP18S601 running on a 1805 - The CDP18S601 is standard CPU, but compatible with older upgrades.
- MS2000 - choice 1802-1806 - UT70 standard.

Also:
MS2000Z - MBZ80C or MBZ80N CPU micro boards. TPM O/S (Superset of CP/M) - otherwise same as MS2000
MS3001 - Supports all Microboards. Optional MSE3300 Logic-Analyzer Module.

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Marcel van Tongeren
 

Hi,

Guru or not as long as someone can provide me with disk images I can give all CDOS versions a try.

Joe, thanks for the list of Microboards!

So if I get this right we had:
- CDP18S020 running on 1802
- CDS I, CDP18S004 running on 1802
- CDS II, CDP18S005 running on 1802
- CDS III, CDP18S007 running on 1802
- CDS IV, CDP18S008 running on 1805, 4 or 2
- MCDS, CDP18S693/694 running on 1802, or when using the CDP18S601 running on a 1805
- MS2000, also with a choice 1802-1806

I could add emulation for any of these as long as we can get our hands on a copy of the ROMs, disk images and specs (manual and/or schematics).
I have already implemented MCDS, MS2000 and CDP18S020 in some form. All 3 could in theory run on any CPU, default is the 1805, actually all emulations run on 1805 except for the SYSTEM00 and 1801 machines as those are not compatible with 1802-1805. So if the CDP18S600 is just a CPU board I have emulation for that in the MCDS. I don't have it as stand alone I could add that if it makes sense to run as such, not sure how that would look like?

Numbering is a bit confusing, the CDP18S020 looks like one of the first from what I can see. It runs on UT4 which I also think is one of the first UT versions? Then the MCDS runs UT62 so that probably came after the CDP18S020 and last the MS2000 runs UT71 which I guess was the latest.

The CDS III used UT21 so should be between the CDP18S020 and MCDS, meaning my list above is in chronological order?

Cheers, Marcel.
 

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Hank Riley
 

Will the real CDOS guru please stand up?

david.schultz@...



On Sunday, August 4, 2019, 01:24:06 PM EDT, Dave Ruske <dave@...> wrote:

I believe this is a case of mistaken identity. Either that or I need to be tested for dementia.

Dave

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Joe Blackburn via Groups.Io <josephjohnblackburn=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
>
> David Ruske is the CDOS guru.

Re: Todd's ELF-ish gets it's STG1861 back #ELF2K #VIP #ELF

taf123
 

Hi Again -

Lee Hart's disassembled version of the VIP ROM is located in the files area as VIPROM.PRN

And Josh Bensadon disassembled version of CHIP-8 is located at chip8.zip

Thanks guys!

Todd

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Dave Ruske
 

I believe this is a case of mistaken identity. Either that or I need to be tested for dementia.

Dave

On Aug 4, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Joe Blackburn via Groups.Io <josephjohnblackburn=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

David Ruske is the CDOS guru.

Todd's ELF-ish gets it's STG1861 back #ELF2K #VIP #ELF

taf123
 

When I had started expanding the ELF-ish beyond the basic ELF/VIP capabilities, given all of the limitations with using the CDP1861 (Interrupts, DMA, tight sync with CPU clock, clock rate limited to 1.7897725Mhz) I had disabled the STG1861 (Spare Time Gizmo CDP1861 replacement) with the intention of eventually recovering that board space for possible re-use.

However, there are a number of interesting programs using this low-res graphics system, including VIP games and articles published in Ipso Facto, etc.  So I had a change of heart, and decided to get that up and running again, as an option.

I hadn't dismantled very much, so it was a simple matter of re-making some connections.  I also decided to use a 74HC74 instead of the originally specified 7474, which let me get rid of the 10k pull-up resistors.

Here it is, back in action.






My output is green here as I didn't have anything which can handle NTSC composite, so I'm driving just the Green and SYNC inputs on my scan converter.

But then I spotted this little "video converter" which claimed to be able to handle NTSC composite, and was listed on Amazon (UK) for only £13.99!  So I decided to give it a go.



Of course, to use it, I had to install an RCA jack and add the required resistors to the header to combine the SYNC and Video signals (I used the resistor values that RCA used in the VIP rather than the ones from the original PE PIXIE graphics article).



And much to my surprise, it worked.



As you can see, the picture is a bit noisy compared with the previous green on the good scan converter.  I don't know if that's interference from the computer, the fact that the scan converter only cost £13.99, or that I'm using the 3.579545Mhz / 2 = 1.7897725Mhz clock instead of the CDP1861 specified 1.76064Mhz clock, so the NTSC timings are quite right.

But it's still cool.  I'll need to update the RCA VIP ROM and possibly the CHIP-8 interpreter to support accessing the HEX keypad using the 2-level I/O structure which is now in place in the ELF-ish before I can play Lunar Lander.

Does anyone have dissembled versions of these anywhere?

This has also made me decide that I need to de-couple the CPU clock from things like the CDP1854 UART baud-clock or the AM9511 APU clock so I can vary what the CPU is doing without impacting those other devices.  These minor updates are next on my plate.

Cheers for now,
Todd


Re: Todd's ELF-ish gets gets a Video Interface System (VIS) #ELF #Homebrew

taf123
 

Hi ELF-ish Fans -

If you recall from my version of the VIS, one can either use Character Generator mode, by running with the 2 * CDM6116 2k x 8-bit SRAMs, or can use bit-map mode, by running with the single CDM6264 8k x 8-bit SRAM.  But you had to make that decision up front.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to switch between the modes using software control?  Note that the VIS board is already very full, so not much could be added.

I decided to add a 4013 D flip-flop to be used as a 1-bit output port, with the Q output controlling the !CS for the CDM6116's and the !Q output controlling the !CS for the CDM6264.  I used a spare 4016 transmission gate together with a decoded N=2 line from the CDP1853 that was added earlier for the keyboard, to select the FF.

Also, note that the PCB input of the CDP1870/1876 is useless in bit-map mode needs to be tied high when the CDM6264 is enabled.  I used another spare 4016 transmission gate and a pull-up resister to cause this to happen automatically when the CDM6264 is selected.

Here's the relevant changes:








And here's the new 4013 (original RCA type) installed in the lower left of the VIS board.



With this change, I can have both sets of memory installed at the same time.



With a slight update to the program to select the 6116 SRAMs, the Character Generator demo works as expected.



Changing the output OUT 2 byte from 0 to 1, selects the 6264 and thus bit-map mode.



It doesn't do anything more exciting than that as I haven't written a program to do anything interesting in bit-map mode yet, but at least it's functioning.

One of the keys is that we now have two independent pages and modes.  You can be in Character mode, switch to bit-map mode and do stuff, and then switch back to Character mode and the display will not have changed.

Cheers,
Todd

Re: CDS III / CDP18S007

Joe Blackburn
 
Edited

David Ruske is the CDOS guru.

And there's an App note about interfacing PL/M to CDOS, ICAN-6928, in the RCA Microprocessor/Memory Application Briefs book.

Take a look at the discussion in the thread "Okay, let's get really crazy..." There were at least three "dos's" One was straight read/write to disk, with no directories, etc. It was offered as an initial upgrade path for the early Dev Systems. Then came CDOS, and a Patch to CDOS. Then MOPS.

BTW - there was another between the EK and the CDSII that is rarely seen. It's the CDS I. CDP18S004 (CDSI) had the CDP18S102 CPU Card. The CDP18S005 (CDSII) and the CDP18S007 (CDSIII) also both had the CDP18S102 at 2.0MHz and 2.5MHz respectively. Then we jump to the CDP18S008 (CDSIV) with the CDP18S605 CPU Card with a choice of 1802/1804. Then to the CDP18S693/CDP18S694 (MCDS) with the better known micro boards, starting with the CDP18S601. Page 11 of the MPL-200B shows the complete list, attached.

Kudos on the recent release of Emma! I was truly shocked, as I hadn't looked around it for a while - I tend to sit on the ELF tab.

It's going to be a great resource for me, as I am finally getting to the stage of bringing up the MCDS. I have the 18S604 CPU, with the Digital Display and Control board, and the five-card case. I've gathered a number of the bare boards, and will be adding the Tape I/O, and the PROM Programmer, and memory.

Had discussion with Herb about the "Upgrade Paths" of the various original CDS and Evaluation Kits to the MCDS and fuller dev systems. And have been building a comprehensive list  of the Literature and Firmware for the series between 1982 - 1984.

Would LOVE to see these added to the emulator:

CDP18S600 - the "High Performance" CPU equivalent to the CDP18S601, with the 1805 CPU. If you look at the product list, about half the CPU boards were 1805's - but most came much later. The CDP18S600 was the flagship micro board, and could be stand-alone or used as the basis of the MCDS.

They then added two Z80 CPU boards, also high performance. These and the CDP18S601 all had high clock speeds. There was a CMOS MBZ80C and an NMOS MBZ80N. They ran TPM, a Superset of CP/M written by Roger Amidon.

Re: Quest Super Elf recreation boards... #SuperElf

Jeff Truck
 

Brian,

Did u get my previous email direct to you requesting one board?

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: Quest Super Elf recreation boards... #SuperElf

Terry Gray
 

Brian, please add 2 boards to my order, for a total of 3, then just let me know the total.  As in, can you send 3 boards for the $7.50 quoted above for shipping? 

Do you have a PayPal account we can use to pay for these?

Re: Quest Super Elf recreation boards... #SuperElf

Martin Heermance
 

$14 sounds good. So keep me posted.


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 12:57 AM Brian <brian@...> wrote:
Sorry, my work schedule changed unexpectedly. My plan is to order 20 of the boards which will result in a cost of $6.50 per board to each buyer, plus USPS Priority Mail shipping costs in a padded envelope with cardboard stiffeners at $7.50 for a total of $14.00 per board (I'll combine shipping for those interested in more than 1). If any additional people are interested, I'm going to keep the group buy open until next weekend. So far approximately 10 to 12 boards of interest which will leave me some additional ones for future buyers. Boards will include the most recent revisions that I have access to. Shipping time will probably be about 2 to 3 weeks from the time of the order.

Anyone that has not already expressed interest is welcome to comment here or send a private email.

Regards, Brian.

CDS III / CDP18S007

Marcel van Tongeren
 

Hi,

Had a look into the CDS III Hardware and Operator Manuals recently uploaded here. Interesting stuff!

Would like to add an emulator for this in Emma 02, I see some similarities to the MS2000 as well as the CDP18S020. Disk interface looks different than the MS2000 but should be possible to emulate either way.

The UT21 is listed in the manual and rather similar to the UT20 so that part I have covered. However to be able to get things running I would need some disk images of at least the CDOS, preferably also for the ASM4 and Disk Editor. Does anyone have access to any of this and is willing to share?

Cheers, Marcel.

Re: Quest Super Elf recreation boards... #SuperElf

 

Sorry, my work schedule changed unexpectedly. My plan is to order 20 of the boards which will result in a cost of $6.50 per board to each buyer, plus USPS Priority Mail shipping costs in a padded envelope with cardboard stiffeners at $7.50 for a total of $14.00 per board (I'll combine shipping for those interested in more than 1). If any additional people are interested, I'm going to keep the group buy open until next weekend. So far approximately 10 to 12 boards of interest which will leave me some additional ones for future buyers. Boards will include the most recent revisions that I have access to. Shipping time will probably be about 2 to 3 weeks from the time of the order.

Anyone that has not already expressed interest is welcome to comment here or send a private email.

Regards, Brian.

Emma 02 V1.31 #Emulator

Marcel van Tongeren
 

Hi there,

Today I released a new version of Emma 02, V1.31.

Main addition is the CDP18S020 Evaluation Kit emulator with a 'real' single step mode, I have also introduced the same single step mode for the Super Elf which is actually a little nicer as it uses TILs instead of just led's for the address and data bus values. I based the single step implementation on the few examples in the CDP18S020 manual and the 180x data-sheets. By doing so I did make some guesses here and there so if anyone has proof something should work differently please let me know.

Some other improvements include the 1804/1805 BCD Subtraction fix, 1804/1805 timing corrections, video timing corrections for the Coin Arcade, VELF and Studio IV and some smaller improvements and bug fixes.

For the full list of changes have a look at the changelog.
Downloads are available for Windows 32/64 bit, OS-X and Linux deb/rpm.

Cheers, Marcel.

Re: Lunar Lander Game for 1802 Tiny Basic

taf123
 

I remember upgrading the RAM in my original VIP just so I could play that.

Re: Netronics Elf II PCB availability

Russ Hughes
 

Electronics Experimenter's Handbook had an article that contained the schematics and artwork for both sides of the Netronics ELF II PC board. The article was called "Build a PERSONAL MICROCOMPUTER FOR $100".  

Re: Lunar Lander Game for 1802 Tiny Basic

Raymond Sills
 

And then, there was that CHIP-8 version for the RCA VIP.... which also had nice, but simple, graphics.

73 de Ray



-----Original Message-----
From: David Schultz <david.schultz@...>
To: cosmacelf <cosmacelf@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jul 31, 2019 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Lunar Lander Game for 1802 Tiny Basic

On 7/31/19 11:38 AM, Ham Radio wrote:
> Seems to work great on Membership card with Chuck's monitor using Tiny
> Basic.

I tried this using BASIC1 under MicroDOS and it appears to work. One
complaint is when it asks if you want to try again it indicates you
should reply "Y or N" but it is looking for a numeric response. "1" and
you play again.

It reminds me of the lunar lander program for the HP-25 that I used to
play a lot. It didn't limit the thrust level so the trick was to wait
till the last second.

This one seems a little flaky. For example:

> Sec    15      Feet  12      Speed  30      Fuel  55
> Burn Units? 35
> ***** Lunar contact *****
> Touchdown at    15      seconds.
> Landing velocity        30      feet/sec.
> 25      units of fuel remaining.


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