Date   
Re: Quest Super Elf recreation boards... #SuperElf

Terry Gray
 

Brian, how many people ultimately ordered the boards?  The reason I ask is to determine if there are enough to try and get a group order of parts as David did when he purchased the original boards. 

New CDP1802 Simulator?

Juergen Pintaske
 

Hi Group,

at the moment I am not active here as of time constarints.

Last year I asked Michael Kohn , if he could do an 1802 Assembler, as he covers a wide range of processors at
 http://www.mikekohn.net/micro/naken_asm.php

1802 /04/05/06 (RCA) Beta Beta   No No Michael Kohn


He added one very quickly. And I posted the link here.

I just received an email from Michael Kohn

Michael A. Kohn <mike@...>

Hey Juergen,
someone recently contributed an 1802 simulator to naken_asm. 
Not sure you guys would be interested in testing it out...
Michael

I wonder who might have the time to check it aout and send feedback to the group.
The combination of simulator and assembler might be a very interesting combination.

Kind regards
Juergen

Re: Intersil approval

Dave Ruske
 

The contact names I had for Intersil are in the FAQ if you get to the RCA copyright section before dozing off, but my last contact with them was years ago and those contacts may no longer be correct. The email addresses are almost certainly outdated, since a quick Google search shows Intersil was acquired by Renesas in 2017:
https://www.renesas.com/eu/en/about/press-center/news/2017/news20170225a.html

I don't have any special insight. Tracking down those contacts was mainly a matter of emailing a general-purpose address found on Intersil's website and asking who in the legal department might be contacted about old copyrights. From past dealings with some corporate lawyers, I've found it is helpful to be brief but specific about what you'd like (lawyers are understandably wary of granting overly broad requests). Patience and respect are usually all that's needed to navigate any corporate hierarchy... or maybe I've just been lucky. :)

Dave

Re: Intersil approval

Joe Blackburn
 

Yes, agree with cellercat, Dave if you want us to get permission from the copyright owner before uploading, could you please put a HOWTO FAQ with a contact email?

I, too, don't mind requesting permissions - but finding the right authority can be a bear...

(I'm assuming, Dave, you are already experienced in this. If not, maybe Herb?)

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

Joe Blackburn
 

Bill - at least one of the RCA books mentions running assembler on the PDP-11. Perhaps the Timesharing manual?


I think was some degree of cooperation, even though RCA had their own systems group.

Re: Intersil approval

cellarcat
 

Dave, do you have any info regarding who should be contacted at Intersil? I don’t mind pursuing this. 

On Aug 10, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Dave Ruske <dave@...> wrote:

To the best of my knowledge, Intersil still owns the RCA copyrights.

Permission needs to be obtained from the copyright holder for anything posted to the group. Please see the FAQ:
 
There’s no other position I can take that will allow me to keep this group online, I’m afraid.

Dave

Re: Intersil approval

Dave Ruske
 

To the best of my knowledge, Intersil still owns the RCA copyrights.

Permission needs to be obtained from the copyright holder for anything posted to the group. Please see the FAQ:
 
There’s no other position I can take that will allow me to keep this group online, I’m afraid.

Dave

Re: Intersil approval

Raymond Sills
 

Hmmm.... does Intersil own the copyrights to the RCA VIP printed game manuals?  It's possible they may only own the patents (or license them) for the 1802 chip.  

Also, the Cosmac Elf group might be considered an exercise in scholarly research for which a Fair Use argument might be made regarding copyrights on those game manuals.

It's hard to see how Intersil would be harmed by the group storing scans of the game manuals, since it more likely cause hobbyists to want to buy an 1802 chip, which Intersil makes and offers for sale.

73 de Ray



-----Original Message-----
From: cellarcat <petelco@...>
To: cosmacelf <cosmacelf@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 4:22 pm
Subject: [cosmacelf] Intersil approval

I just volunteered to scan and upload the VIP Game Manuals VP-710 and VP-720 but I note that Intersil's approval has not been obtained. Do I go ahead and upload anyway or should we be seeking approval?

Intersil approval

cellarcat
 

I just volunteered to scan and upload the VIP Game Manuals VP-710 and VP-720 but I note that Intersil's approval has not been obtained. Do I go ahead and upload anyway or should we be seeking approval?

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

Marcel van Tongeren
 

Hi,

Yes, I'm indeed in the process of adding a CDP18S600 stand alone emulator, but not sure that will help with the ASM4 as I'm not adding any additional SW (I'm afraid don't have any...). If there is an actual binary copy of the ASM4 somewhere which I can help to get it running.

I do have emulation of the MCDS already which includes an assembler but I believe that one is compatible with the Netronics Cassette Assembler as in this manual: https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf/files/Netronics%20Software%20and%20Documentation/Netronics%20Assembler.pdf

Then the MS2000 which I have also emulated includes the ASM8 on one of the disk images that might be able to handle the ASM4 code? I have some notes on how to use that in the Emma 02 help pages. Note I have not used it beyond the described example.

Both options above will run in the latest Emma 02 version.

Hope that help,
Cheers, Marcel.

So 

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

cmdrcosmac
 

This code sample looks like RCA's Level II assembly syntax as used by their
Disk Macroassembler ASM4. See MPM-232.
 Apparently, Marcel is working on emulating RCA's old development systems
under Emma 02, so you may be able to use the Macroassembler that way.
-Chuck

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

bill rowe
 

Wow.   I don’t think I had ever heard of csdp or seen that syntax. It reminds me of something though...

On Aug 10, 2019, at 2:36 PM, "jy.as@..." <jy.as@...> wrote:

@cmdrcosmac

Thank you for the welcome.  I'm more of a hardware person than a programmer so forgive me any misunderstandings here.  CSDP had a rich syntax that I've not seen in the classic mnemonic translation type assemblers.  Here are a couple of example snippets from an old CSDP listing:
 
<dummyfile.0.part>

Some sort of I guess macro features? Do any of the currently available assemblers support this type of syntax?


@Joe Blackburn

Thank you also for the welcome and yes, the state of emulation for the DEC PDP-11 series is great.  I actually have a real PDP-11/05 and an 11/44 waiting on resotration time (plus a MicroVAX in running order). 


John

--
Bill Rowe
Olduino - an arduino for the first of us
https://olduino.wordpress.com/about-2/about/

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

jy.as@...
 

@cmdrcosmac

Thank you for the welcome.  I'm more of a hardware person than a programmer so forgive me any misunderstandings here.  CSDP had a rich syntax that I've not seen in the classic mnemonic translation type assemblers.  Here are a couple of example snippets from an old CSDP listing:
 

Some sort of I guess macro features? Do any of the currently available assemblers support this type of syntax?


@Joe Blackburn

Thank you also for the welcome and yes, the state of emulation for the DEC PDP-11 series is great.  I actually have a real PDP-11/05 and an 11/44 waiting on resotration time (plus a MicroVAX in running order). 


John

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

Joe Blackburn
 

Hi, John!

Welcome to the group!

If you locate the PDP-11 CDSP stuff, there are PDP-11 emulators that can still run it.

If you find the IBM PC versions there are a number of Cross-Assemblers both for the PC/Windows and Mac OS X, as well as DOSBOX (which runs on both platforms) that can run those.

Herb Johnson uses a version of CTUG's A18 Cross Assembler for MS/PC-DOS. He's updated it to add the 1805 instruction set and subroutine call and returns.

The 1980's Avocet XASM18 is still around. And a number of people are experimenting with both vintage and modern assembler software written in C/C++ and other languages for the MAC and PC.

Most assemblers are command-line only, but one called Crossbow had an IDE - it was, however, written for the original System 9 Classic and earlier Macs.

Re: COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

cmdrcosmac
 

John,
 Welcome to the Group!
Unless you need the CDSP package note that there are several "modern" 1802 assemblers
out there.  See  http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/a18.html That's part of
Herb Johnson's site. He's got a wealth of stuff about, among other things, 1802
programming.

 Couldn't find the CDSP.
 
 Also of note is Marcel's "Emma 02". This is a powerful and comprehensive 1802
system emulator and execution analyzer. See https://www.emma02.hobby-site.com/

-Chuck

COSMAC Software Development Package (CSDP)

jy.as@...
 

Hi All,

In the late seventies and early eighties I worked on a number of project involving the versatile 1802.  One memorable project involved a low power calcualtor product that married a HMOS Intel 8231A Arithmetic Processing Unit (APU) to provides high speed IEEE floating point arithmetic to the 1802 buffered in such as ways as to allow the APU to be powered down between calculations to save the battery.  We used the CSDP macro assembler for programming, originally running on a PDP-11 and later a PC version when the IBM PC became available.  I also built a ham radio repeater controller project around the 1802 that was widely used here in New Zealand.

Now close to retirement I've been thinking about building a retro 1802 system and I'm hunting around for the CSDP assembler, either a PC executable or the FORTRAN source.

Just wondering if anyone knows if this can be downloaded anywhere?

Thanks, John

Re: Todd's ELF-ish gets it's STG1861 back #ELF2K #VIP #ELF

taf123
 

Hi -

With the helpfully provided disassembled versions of the VIP ROM and CHIP-8, it was easy enough to them to the ELF-ish 2-level I/O design.

First test CHIP-8 program, Kaleidoscope, worked perfectly - just as I remember from way back when.

However, I do have to take back my enthusiasm for that "Video Converter".  Although it works, as shown, it doesn't automatically re-sync if it loses the sync.  For example, using the VIP monitor to enter the Kaleidoscope, then flick Run off (to RESET), shuts off the 1861 and thus the sync.  So the converter goes Blue Screen.

But then flipping Run back up, it stays on blue screen until I cycle through the inputs back to the composite in, and then the screen springs back to life.

I guess, what can one really expect for £13.99?!?

I'm going back to separate Video  and Sync to the proper scan converter.  Green is nice.

Can anyone recommend a NTSC Composite to VGA converter that can resync, but doesn't cost the bank?

In the meantime, I'm going to enter Lunar Lander....

Cheers,
Todd


Re: anybody comfortable with TinyBASIC/IDIOT mon source code?

Erturk Kocalar
 

Hi Chuck,

 

This helps a lot. I should be able to modify it to do what I want, or emulate 1854.

 

Thank you very much,

Erturk

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: cmdrcosmac
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 12:47 AM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] anybody comfortable with TinyBASIC/IDIOT mon source code?

 

Erturk,
Here is a version of IDIOT modded to use the 1854 UART.
-Chuck

 

Re: anybody comfortable with TinyBASIC/IDIOT mon source code?

cmdrcosmac
 

Erturk,
Here is a version of IDIOT modded to use the 1854 UART.
-Chuck

anybody comfortable with TinyBASIC/IDIOT mon source code?

Erturk Kocalar
 

Hi All,

 

RetroShield guy again.

 

Good news: I got the RetroShield 1802 working fully with TinyBASIC/IDIOT monitor image from the Membership Card website. To get UART work, Arduino implements a cycle-accurate soft-uart on Q and EF3# pins. So far TinyBASIC/IDIOT works and usable.

 

Bad news: UART is very slow due to bit-banging which also wastes precious cpu cycles.

 

I tried. At this time I’m hopeless at following the 1802 assembly, forget about changing anything 😊 If somebody can help rewrite the UART functions, then we can make UART instant.

After fixing UART, I want to switch to implementing CDP1861 functionality using an Arduino VGA shield.

 

Notes below if anybody is interested.

 

Thank you very much,

Erturk

 

 

 

Problem:

At 2400 baud, each bit takes 1666 cpu cycles. So one char (9 bits) is ~15k cpu cycles wasted. I modified the source code to the fastest baud rate possible and it still takes 700 cpu cycles/bit. still not good enough.

 

If we rewrite the UART TX and RX functions in the TinyBASIC/IDIOT monitor as below, UART will take only a few cpu cycles to send/receive characters:

 

UART Transmit a byte:

  • Write the byte to $D000.

 

UART Read a character:

  • Read UART status on $D001.
  • If bit X set, read a byte from $D000 and return it.
  • If bit X not set, no UART characters available. Loop or return as appropriate.

 

(Alternate) UART Read a character:

  • Check if EF3# is asserted.
  • If asserted, read a byte from $D001 and return it.
  • If not asserted, no UART characters available. Loop or return as appropriate.

 

Arduino will see cpu is accessing these addresses and will act accordingly.

 

Feel free to change “addresses $D000/$D001” or “bit X” to anything more appropriate.

 

Thank you