Date   
Re: 1802 avable at BGMICRO....

Mark Moulding
 

BG Micro has been around a long time, and is pretty reputable.  They also put together this little kit of critical parts, for about ten bucks: https://www.bgmicro.com/9z1510.aspx
~~

Mark Moulding

Re: 1802 avable at BGMICRO....

Lee Hart
 

Peter Renaud wrote:
No shipping to Canada for the #9Z1510 kit :(
I have all the same parts (except the wall wart), and I *do* ship to Canada. :-)

Or if you're in no hurry, I buy from BGMicro pretty often. I could order one of these kits for you the next time I place an order (assuming they still have them in stock at that point).

Lee Hart
--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: 1802 avable at BGMICRO....

Peter Renaud
 

No shipping to Canada for the #9Z1510 kit :(


From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> on behalf of Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 3:34 PM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] 1802 avable at BGMICRO....
 
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:
> https://www.bgmicro.com/9z1509.aspx
> Can't say more than that regarding if they are real or what.

The picture shows a real 1802. That's encouraging.

They also have an 1802 kit #9Z1510 for $9.85, which has an 1802, 2732
EPROM, 8K static RAM, 2.4 MHz crystal, 5v wall wart, and IC sockets. I
referred them to the VCF-ELF design at <www.sunrise-ev.com/vcf-elf.htm>

Lee
--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com



Re: 1802 avable at BGMICRO....

Lee Hart
 

ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:
https://www.bgmicro.com/9z1509.aspx
Can't say more than that regarding if they are real or what.
The picture shows a real 1802. That's encouraging.

They also have an 1802 kit #9Z1510 for $9.85, which has an 1802, 2732 EPROM, 8K static RAM, 2.4 MHz crystal, 5v wall wart, and IC sockets. I referred them to the VCF-ELF design at <www.sunrise-ev.com/vcf-elf.htm>

Lee
--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

1802 avable at BGMICRO....

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

https://www.bgmicro.com/9z1509.aspx
Can't say more than that regarding if they are real or what.

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

Stuart Remphrey
 

Got the etchant reference, Quinn aka Blondihacks.
1:1 vinegar and common 3% hydrogen peroxide; add a teaspoon of salt to start etching, then PCB:
http://quinndunki.com/blondihacks/?p=835

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

Stuart Remphrey
 

That's an interesting variation, should be quite reproducible with consistent heat & pressure.

I recall reading about alternative etchants too, that are slower but much easier to handle/safer. Can't find the reference now, aarrgghh!  :-(
(thought maybe Fran Blanche / Frantone but not -- though she does/did hand make all her effects pedals: PCBs, custom optocouplers, cases, paint shop & silk screen; 3-layer PCBs for Cuteuino <off-topic> she also analysed an Apollo LVDC board with a dental x-ray, quite impressive.)

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

 

There i a group that talks about that and other ways of making home brew PCB's.  One take on that method is to run the PCB laser print and blank PCB through a laminator.  Let it do the transferring of the image to the board.

https://groups.io/g/homebrewpcbs/messages

Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Todd,

The media is important as 720 must be written on DD media and 1.44 oh HD media
or the problem results in what I call high speed bit rot.  The wrong media writes poorly
and tend to get bit smear and forgetful.

Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

I grabbed 4 random PC 3.5" drive handy.

Sony MPF920
Newtronics (mitsumi)  D3395
Panasonic JU257
ALPS  IBM P/M 06P5226 FRU 76H091
 
In the common PC they are interchangeable and do 720/1440.

The only strange ones are the pulls from model-50 MCA bus machines
and those have 26pin connectors with otherwise normal signals
(fewer ground pins).

Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

taf123
 

Hi David -

Both of the drive models I have are PC style drives with the 34-pin interface.  One is the TEAC FD235HF-6529, the other is the Sony MPF920.  According to the manuals I've been able to find on-line, they both support DD and HD media for 720k/1.44M standard IBM format capacities.  And I have both types of blank media.

Cheers,
Todd

Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

David Schultz
 

On 12/14/19 3:14 PM, taf123 wrote:
Once I get done building this this FDC, I'll need fresh copies of the
MicroDOS and BASIC disks, but my only machine with real floppies has up
and died on me.
Is the target hardware vintage drives or modern ones? If they are
vintage drives (not HD aware/compatible) then you will have to use DD
rather than HD media. At least if you want to be able to write to them.
Reading should be fine.

--
https://web.archive.org/web/20190214181851/http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz/
(Web pages available only at the Wayback Machine because Earthlink
terminated that service.)

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

Mark Abene
 

In the late 80s, me and a friend had some success with a method we read about on Usenet (we commonly used a combination of resist ink pen and Archer dry etch transfers). The method involves a laser printer and instead of paper, the transparent acetate sheets used in overhead projectors. We used a layout program in DOS called EASYTRAX, if memory serves. You print your PCB layout in inverse on the shiny side of the acetate (not the matte side!). Then tape the sheet around the edges face down on your copper-clad board, matte side up, and cover with a thin bed sheet and carefully iron it. Getting the heat setting just right and how long to iron was an art. You need to slowly "test peel" the acetate sheet to see if the toner is sticking well to the board. Once you're good to go, it's FeCl bath time.
Not an exact science, and it took practice, but the results were very satisfying for the late 80s, especially for more complex designs that would've otherwise taken hours and hours to layout by hand.


On Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 11:39 PM Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
cmdrcosmac wrote:
> I wonder if it's not easier to design the board in KiCad and send it to
> OSH Park.

I thing that's what happened with me. It just got easier to use CAD
instead of mylar-and-tape, and to use the quick-turn PCB houses instead
of making my own. I think I made my last PCB by hand about 10 years ago.

Lee

--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com



Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

taf123
 

Hi Guys -

Once I get done building this this FDC, I'll need fresh copies of the MicroDOS and BASIC disks, but my only machine with real floppies has up and died on me.

Anyone willing to make me a set or two and port 'em out to Oregon before the New Year?  I'll PayPal you to cover cost/time/effort.

Just contact me todd . ferguson (at) gmx . net

Thanks!
Todd

Re: #Homebrew #Homebrew

btrenkoski@...
 

Found what was the problem.

CLEAR line was not connected. Set it to HIGH solve the problem :)

#Homebrew #Homebrew

btrenkoski@...
 

Hi all,

I'm trying to build an 1802 based computer, inspired by Pecom64, which is computer produces in country where I was born.

I have problem latching with CDP1852 chip. The one I have is Harris.

The problem is that when input data is less then 16DEC (or 10Hex) it does not set SR flag. If data is greater then 10HEX everything works fine.

I have 4 chips, 2 of them are CDP1852CE and other two are CDP1852E, and have the same problem with all of them.

I am using N0 as output, and can confirm that it is properly set, and also voltage is good enough.

Any idea what can cause this problem? BTW I am using CDP1852 as output only.

Thanks,
Branko

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

Lee Hart
 

cmdrcosmac wrote:
I wonder if it's not easier to design the board in KiCad and send it to
OSH Park.
I thing that's what happened with me. It just got easier to use CAD instead of mylar-and-tape, and to use the quick-turn PCB houses instead of making my own. I think I made my last PCB by hand about 10 years ago.

Lee

--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

cmdrcosmac
 


Lee,
I've read that some brands of laser printers work better than others with toner transfer.
Brother is said to work poorly, HP better. The Brother toner doesn't stick well to the copper surface.
 In the printer preferences set it to "Dark" rather than "Toner Saver" to get a thick toner layer.
 Also, it's said to print the pattern on the flimsy clay-coated paper found in the advertising stuffers
in the newspaper. When you soak the paper off the clay dissolves and takes the paper with it.
 Perhaps a brief dip in the echant to roughen the copper surface so as to hold the toner better.

Also check out:  inkjetprintedcircuitboardprinting@groups.io  and  homebrewpcbs@groups.io

I wonder if it's not easier to design the board in KiCad and send it to OSH Park.

--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall

Google "Phoebus Cartel"

-Chuck

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

Lee Hart
 

ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:

Hi Allison,

Thanks for some extra tips for the art of PCB artwork. Lots of ways! Gee, I wonder what Leonardo DaVinci would have used? :-)

There are several photo transfer. The one I used required a special very
yellow looking florescent tube
I never ran across that one. I used a resist that needed a UV light. I applied it with a little spray gun. It was tricky to apply because it was clear; you couldn't see how well the PCB was coated.

For front panels that wanted a distinctive look resist on aluminum then
etch it. There are several materials that work, ferric chloride was good.
Interesting. I never tried ferric chloride on aluminum. I used lye instead, usually with a reverse plating current to etch deeper.

The copier/toner was terrible but it helped me once to get something
however poor.
Yeah, they looked bad. Fuzzy edges from the leftover fibers.

There's a newer toner method I haven't tried; but it sounds promising. Use a toner that disolves in acetone. Mix 8 parts denatured alcohol with 3 parts acetone. This softens the toner to make it sticky, but does not quite disolve it off the paper. Wet the cleaned PCB with the mix. Place the paper+toner on top, so it is adhered just by the liquid. Give it 5-10 seconds to disolve the toner, then apply pressure to squeeze out the mix. Then place in water, and after a few minutes, peel the paper off the PCB+toner. The toner should have all transferred to the PCB; none on the paper. Now you can etch the board!

Good to know wider copper tape is available. I only found it up to 2" at "tape jungle" online. The narrower stuff is easy to get; it's used for security systems (on windows), making "flat" wiring, and various RF shielding purposes.

Here's yet another novel technique. CMOS has essentially zero input current. That means the interconnecting wires can have many K ohms of resistance and still work (at least at lower frequencies). So you can draw the traces on paper with a #2 or HB pencil, and they will conduct well enough to work! Lay the paper on a piece of nonconducting foam, punch the ICs through the paper+traces. Connect power, inputs, outputs and your other parts with paper clips. :-)

Lee

--
ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: Prototyping PCBs and Ipso Facto / ACE 1802 PCBs... #Electronics #IpsoFacto #Serial

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Lee,
two notes.

Sharpie bubbles are an indication the board was not clean, I found scrubbing with
power cleanser (comet) until it was bright solved that.

There are several photo transfer.  The one I used required a special very
yellow looking florescent tube that was fairly easy to get in 12/24/36 inch
lengths. The material could be put on from a can in low light (red light
was often used).   To get it even on the board, the board was mounted
in a spinner in a box and a bit was poured in the center and the board
spun to get it to the edges and even.  Worked well.  The resist was only
require to be opaque to visible light so clear plastic with drafting tape or
any tape and hand laid or even done with a paint brush and black enamel
(especially for larger areas).

For front panels that wanted a distinctive look resist on aluminum then
etch it. There are several materials that work, ferric chloride was good.

The copier/toner was terrible but it helped me once to get something
however poor.  Making the positives for the earlier photo method on
a copier worked well.

As as common trick for VHF G10/GR4 board bare is easy to get
and apply copper adhesive backed tape.  An Xacto knife to get
the desired pattern.  If your willing to pay up to 12 inch wide can
he had (not cheap!).  Used that to develop antenna prototypes
on various material (plastics, and even plywood.   I keep .25",
.5", 1" and 2" wide rolls for that.  Amazon as its common for arts
and crafts.  I've used that to 2ghz with acceptable results.

Note the .25" and .5" are really useful for computer hardware to do
DC buses that have low inductance.

 Allison