Date   
Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Tor-Eirik Lunde
 

Wanted to find out how to redraw a PCB in KiCAD, so I made an attempt at it (https://github.com/tebl/RC1980-VICA/). Have no illusions that it'll work right away since it was drawn by sight and guesstimation. Can't afford to make such a  large PCB at the moment, so not sure if I'll do any more work on it. Anyway it's there for the moment, in the hope that the files can be used for something down the line.

fre. 3. jan. 2020 kl. 15:04 skrev Rick <rppolicy@...>:

Thanks for uploading these files Rizal!  Definitely a nice piece of history.

Re: OT: Great Retro Computing show

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Likely standing next to me.

I have the record as well.

Allison

Re: OT: Great Retro Computing show

cmdrcosmac
 


>> Actually there was a lot of that going on int he late 70 and early 80s.

Example: https://www.vintagecomputermusic.com/

 I saw the booth at a Computer Faire where this album was sold (and played).
It drew a crowd. Still have the record.

-Chuck

Re: OT: Great Retro Computing show

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Actually there was a lot of that going on int he late 70 and early 80s.

I fondly remember a Cosmac (several) doing very good music with only a 
transistor and speaker off the Q output.  They shared a common heartbeat
using EF lines to keep the music in sync across 4 fairly simple 1802 boards.
(they had more memory than an elf and small rom likely UT4).  That was
PCC76 in philly.

Of course there was a half dozen other using S100 and various soundcards
of the day that took that several notches up.

Heck my PDP-11/02 (LSI-11 cpu) has a Gigolo (DEC internal build, never sold,
for various DECUS and other events) card (two channels) of sound 
based on the AY-mumble sound chips of the late 70s,

Another system I worked on for a company still in use for process control
for a production line has a Cromemco Dazzler color video card from 1976
in a S100 crate.

One of the system I still use a Visual 1050 uses a 6502 for the CRT
rendering (monochrome, 320x240) graphics and text as a slave to the Z80.
That runs CPM+ and DRI GSX/display manager.

So music and graphics are not PC new.  If anything it took a few years for
PCs to catch up to that.  I think we forget that.  During the between times
before the PC (and others) was the dominant graphic engine the Amiga
was the hot machine.  Maybe many don't remember the workstation wars
( 1Megapixel display, many megabytes ram, and 1 MIPS (1 million instructions
a second)  of the mid later half of the 80s (pre 386cpu). 

Allison

Re: OT: Great Retro Computing show

Lee Hart
 

Arthur Elsenaar wrote:
Hi,
Just a pointer to a totally great retro computing show by artist Robert
Henke.
For three years they worked on resurrecting five PET CBM 8032 (6502)
computers.
They went to meticulous detail to create an audio-visual show that could
have been done in 1980.
Wow; this is really fantastic work!

It proves that true art comes from the artist; not the medium. A talented painter can create a masterpiece with nothing but canvas and paint. Or a great musician can create beautiful music with ancient instruments.

Lee Hart

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

OT: Great Retro Computing show

Arthur Elsenaar
 

Hi,
Just a pointer to a totally great retro computing show by artist Robert Henke.
For three years they worked on resurrecting five PET CBM 8032 (6502) computers.
They went to meticulous detail to create an audio-visual show that could have been done in 1980.
If you get a chance to see their show --am sure it will travel the world over-- be sure to get a ticket.
Here's the website for the project: https://roberthenke.com/concerts/cbm8032av.html
And here an extensive inside view of technical details that went into the project: https://roberthenke.com/technology/inside8032av.html
Enjoy,
Arthur

Re: Happy New Year!

Lee Hart
 

cellarcat wrote:
A belated Happy New Year to everyone! I don't know about you but I am
really looking forward to multiple new projects this year. I am coming
back to the 1802 after decades of playing with the Z80 and CP/M.
Welcome back! I think the ol' 1802 will be able to provide you with some new and interesting projects.

What I realized last year after getting ZS-DOS and ZCPR running on several
different computers was that there really is not much more to do with
CP/M. Writing applications software for CP/M is a dead end. There are
already multiple versions of everything you could conceivably want.
Well now, I wouldn't say that! :-)

The 1802 and Z80 are both computers. They can do anything that any other computer can do. They may be slower, and have less memory than a super-duper modern one; but that is both a blessing and a curse. More speed also means they consume a lot more power (short battery life). More memory means bigger programs, and that tends to lead to software bloat. You wind up with programs so big and inscrutible that you never can debug or use them the way you intended.

There were cellphones made with 1802's that ran for weeks; today, you have to charge them daily.

The TI-84 calculators are still using Z80-based CPUs. It's a far better match for the application than a cellphone or Raspberry Pi.

You say there are no "new" applications for the Z80 or CP/M (or the 1802, for that matter). I don't think that is true. You have to suit the task to the tool. What is the 1802 or Z80 *good* at? Build on its strengths! Small; simple; low power; dedicated to the task at hand; a good learning tool (readily programmed right down to the "bare metal").

As for the applications themselves: I do not believe we have invented even 1% of the things a microcomputer can do. I once had the privilege of working with Hans Camenzind on a project (he's the designer of the 555 timer). He kept a graph of the number of transistors in the world. It started at something like 3 in 1947. Like Noyce's law, you could see it grow exponentially at over 2:1 each year. You could see where it exceeded then number of people on the earth; then the number of animals, then the number of insects. You could see where the number of transistors on a chip made a gate possible; then a counter, then a memory, then a microprocessor.

One interesting aspect was that less than 10% of world's transistors are in computers (PCs, phones; things you would recognize as "computers". The vast majority are in all the other "gadgets" around us --
calculators, cars, appliances, etc. He saw the future as having far more "smart" products: Doorknobs that recognize your handprint and let you in. Lights that turn on when someone is present, and off otherwise.
Dataloggers to gather information, and present it in forms you can use. We have barely scratched the surface of applications like these!

Yes, there's the currently fashionable "internet of things". But that seems more like a way for big companies or governments to gather information on us for *their* benefit; not ours. Most of them are plagued by privacy issues. It's not the connection to the internet that's important; it's what the device does for YOU!

Systems software was the only really interesting thing left and the
Z-System basically topped that.
Z-System is just the operating system. The next step is what you *do* with the operating system. Look at linux, for example. :-)

Lee Hart

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: To Ring in the New Year

Lee Hart
 

David G Williams wrote:
A Happy New Year to you.

Just finished reading your rewrite of The Chimes.

Very moving. Thank you.
You're very welcome, David. I'm delighted that you found the time to read it. It blew me away, and I was amazed that no one seems to have ever heard of it. I cut the size about in half; but it's still too long. People just don't read any more. I guess they'll have to wait for the Disney movie. :-/

Anyway, have a Happy New Year!
Lee Hart

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Rick
 

Thanks for uploading these files Rizal!  Definitely a nice piece of history.

Re: Happy New Year!

Stuart Remphrey
 

Yet-another-fashionably-belated New Year all!

FYI, attached photo of Singapore fireworks, depicting an historic snapshot of our inner solar system showing Galileo commencing it's journey taking it's precious 1802 cargo towards Jupiter and beyond (those of us with older, more experienced, eyes may need to squint a bit harder); also an "outsider's" viewpoint.

-- Rgds, Stuart.

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

baljit@...
 

Rizal Thank you for all the effort you have put in. My initial glance and quick review of the documents you have uploaded shows that this is an excellent project, coming from a former Technical College and a recent Industrial Electronics Instructor.
I for sure will be recreating and updating the documents you have provided as a combined PDF,

Creating and producing a new PCB for sure. My initial inclination is to have a rechargeable Lithium Ion Battery and modify the Prototype Section to include some modern Surface Mount components and provide an area for an Arduino look alike assembly.

I look forward to suggestions from other members.
 

Re: To Ring in the New Year

David G Williams
 

Hello Lee,

A Happy New Year to you.

Just finished reading your rewrite of The Chimes.

Very moving. Thank you.

David Williams

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <leeahart@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>; <cosmacelf@groups.io>; "SEBHC" <sebhc@...>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2020 5:24 AM
Subject: [cosmacelf] To Ring in the New Year


Charles Dickens was a gifted writer and masterful storyteller. Everyone knows his holiday classic "A Christmas Carol". But he wrote another masterpiece for the New Year's holiday that is all but forgotten.

"The Chimes" was written in 1844, and tells the tale of Toby Veck, a simple honest man adrift in a cold, cruel world. The message is timeless, and amazingly relevant to our situation today. The original is rather long, and the span of years has made the language difficult. My gift to you for this New Year's Day is my abridged version of "The Chimes", shortened and with some of the words updated for modern readers.

Please enjoy it with my compliments. If you do, I promise you'll never hear the chimes of a clock the same again!

<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/poems/thechimes.htm>

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com


Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Rizal Acob
 
Edited

I just completed the upload of 10 PDF files in the folder which basically are the documents needed to complete the 1980 VICA 1802 Assembly competition. What I have not included are the reference materials (technical specs ) for the parts used in the project.
IMO, all parts are still available or can be sourced...except the project case (of course) and the HP-5032 (which probably can be replaced by TIL311 with some rewiring.
The display, psu, Hex keypad and switches are all wired and does not use a specific PCB. One mod already in my mind is put a bypass the PSU assembly and just use a 5V switching PSU. To keep the authenticity...will still wire the 0riginal PSU but put a bypass input to use a modern psu.

Please review, and if anyone in the community will take the initiative to generate a PCB gerber or (?), please include me as one buyer for the copy.

Thanks to all
P.S.: As a token of thanks, I am sending a CD of the PDF files to SkillUSA for historical purposes.

Rizal Acob

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

wrcooke@...
 

Thanks for doing this.  I recommend scanning all the documents.  I know that is a lot of work, but it may be the only chance.
Do the documents include the schematics?  I haven't seen them in the files you have uploaded so far.

Thanks,
Will

On January 2, 2020 at 1:41 PM Rizal Acob <racob@...> wrote:

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

 

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." --  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"The names of global variables should start with    // "  -- https://isocpp.org


Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Dave Everett
 

On 3/01/2020 6:41 am, Rizal Acob wrote:
I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

Thanks Rizal, this very much appreciated.

Dave

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

David Madole
 

This is a very simple board, it would be easy to re-draw it by hand. Way less complex than the Super Elf!

 

It’s interesting how it’s divided into four sections that could be cut apart and then re-connected with wires or connectors.

 

David

 

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rizal Acob
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2020 2:42 PM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

 

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

wrcooke@...
 

Some PCB programs will allow you to place an image underneath, which makes it fairly easy to "trace" the tracks exactly as the originals.  gEDA under Linux allows this.  I will try to take a look at the scans and see how hard it would be to reproduce the board.

Will

On January 2, 2020 at 1:41 PM Rizal Acob <racob@...> wrote:

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

 

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." --  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"The names of global variables should start with    // "  -- https://isocpp.org


Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Tor-Eirik Lunde
 

Looking forward to the rest of this, the projects look like fun and with everything online it'd be fun to check out!

Especially the schematic diagram / list of parts is of interest initially, that way we can have a look at if all the parts still exists somewhere. Hopefully already in a members basement stash :-)

tor. 2. jan. 2020, 20:41 skrev Rizal Acob <racob@...>:

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

jeff.birt
 

I have watched a couple of videos where a guy in Hungary used a program called ‘SPRINT Layout’ to reproduce old PCBs. It has the ability to import images and recognize PCB features to help semi-automate the process. I have not used it myself.

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rizal Acob
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2020 1:42 PM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

 

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..

_._,_._,_


Re: VICA 1980 Contest...assembling a Cosmac Elf 1802 system

Rizal Acob
 

I have uploaded so far 4 PDF files to a folder called 1980 VICA 1802...
There is a scan of the PCB which I have uploaded first, hoping to ask community's opinion if there is a chance to have it reproduced or if there is even any interest on it. I have decided to hold off on the assembly in the hope that the main PCB can be duplicated for preservation. The rest are hard wiring of parts, panels, etc...

I will try to complete the upload of the other files....soon..