Date   
Re: Using the BG 1802 kit

Paul Schmidt
 

Also, for what it is worth, you can take a look at the ELF manual and build details that are downloadable here:

http://cosmacelf.com/news/new-cosmac-elf-group-owner.html

Once there, you need to Publications | Books & Papers, then click the link "COSMAC ELF Manual & Build Details". This was my effort to as accurately as possible replicate the original magazine ELF, with none of the later add-ons and expansions. I know a number of people have successfully built their ELFs starting with the various documents in the ZIP file....

Paul Schmidt

-----Original Message-----
From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 10:23 AM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Using the BG 1802 kit

From: ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...>
Paul,

Take advantage of the web interface to this group as the files section
is loaded with information and code.

As to firmware depends on what you building. Check Lee's site as that
can make life easier.
My web site is <http://www.sunrise-ev.com>. In particular, see <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/1802.htm> for the 1802 Membership Card, <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/vcf-elf.htm> to build the classic Elf, <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/vip2k.htm> for an RCA VIP, <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/projects.htm> for other 1802 projects.

You'll find manuals, schematics, parts lists, part sources, software, bare boards, and complete kits for many 1802 projects.

Herb Johnson's website starts at <http://www.retrotechnology.com>. There is so much information there on hundreds of vintage computers that it's best to use Google's search capability to find specific information. For example, google "site:www.retrotechnology.com 1802"

As to directions, that depends on where you are starting from, and where you'd like to end up! Can you provide a little more information on what you have now, and what you want to build?

Happy New Year,
Lee Hart

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: Using the BG 1802 kit

Lee Hart
 

From: ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...>
Paul,

Take advantage of the web interface to this group as the files section is loaded
with information and code.

As to firmware depends on what you building.  Check Lee's site as that can make
life easier.
My web site is <http://www.sunrise-ev.com>. In particular, see
<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/1802.htm> for the 1802 Membership Card,
<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/vcf-elf.htm> to build the classic Elf,
<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/vip2k.htm> for an RCA VIP,
<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/projects.htm> for other 1802 projects.

You'll find manuals, schematics, parts lists, part sources, software, bare boards, and complete kits for many 1802 projects.

Herb Johnson's website starts at <http://www.retrotechnology.com>. There is so much information there on hundreds of vintage computers that it's best to use Google's search capability to find specific information. For example, google "site:www.retrotechnology.com 1802"

As to directions, that depends on where you are starting from, and where you'd like to end up! Can you provide a little more information on what you have now, and what you want to build?

Happy New Year,
Lee Hart

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: Using the BG 1802 kit

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Paul,

Take advantage of the web interface to this group as the files section is loaded
with information and code.

As to firmware depends on what you building.  Check Lee's site as that can make
life easier.

Allison

Re: Using the BG 1802 kit

cmdrcosmac
 


Paul,
Welcome to the group! Here you will meet interesting people and learn interesting things.
 The parts you'll need depend on what kind of Elf system you are building.
I assume you are familiar with the "classical" Elf, with the 8 switches and 256 bytes
of RAM. If you do the switches, may I recommend rocker- or paddle switches as they are
easier on the fingers.

 The BG kit includes a large RAM and an EPROM (presumably blank). To use these you will
need a high-address latch eg.74HC373. Usually these systems place the ROM at #0000 and
the RAM at #8000, sometimes these addresses are reversed. There are reasons for each setup.
 Go to Herb Johnson's website and read about Lee Hart's "Membership Card" Elf kit.
It's an interesting design example to show how to set up a system with EPROM and large RAM.
 If you want a serial monitor setup, Lee can supply a EPROM containing the IDIOT monitor.
This is a good choice for a first system. The serial I/O uses the EF and Q signals and a
software UART to keep the hardware simple. You'll need a MAX-232 chip to interface the EF
and Q lines to a PC's serial port, and run a terminal program to talk to IDIOT.
This will allow you to load and save memory and examine and change the CPU registers.

 Many folks on the group run systems with video and sound hardware, cassette storage,
hardware UART serial and other advanced peripherals. There exist assemblers that run on the
PC so you don't have to assemble with pencil and paper. (I've done that)

 Some of us design systems with vintage parts, some prefer the modern parts.
Retrocomputing is as much a work of art as it is electronic design.

 Herb Johnson's and Lee Hart's websites contain a wealth of knowledge about the COSMAC;
and searching the Web you'll be able to find Ipso Facto, Questdata, and the Viper.
as well as many original RCA documents about their COSMAC products and development
systems. These publications from back in the day are a goldmine of information about
the 1802 and the systems then built around it.

Happy New Year!
-Chuck

Using the BG 1802 kit

paul.ashley@...
 

Hi.  I am new to the group.  I taught digital electronics using the Cosmac Elf in the late 70"s.  I am trying to catch up.  I have purchased several boards and parts.  I purchased from BG the kit of parts.  Is there a specific board that can be used with the parts?  Also firmware ?

Thanks

Paul

Re: CDP1802 "Kit"

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Happy camper here as my 1802s are on the way and Lee's Board kit #2 finally arrived
(slow postal delivery here).

Now to assemble.  Should go fast once all the parts are pulled from the various bins.

Allison

Re: CDP1802 "Kit"

Bob
 

Re: CDP1802 "Kit"

 

  Just got an email from BG Micro - the $9.99 "kit" sale price is back in effect until midnight (EST) on Sunday 12/29.

  They're calling it "RetroComputing with the COSMAC" :)

Bob

Re: Off topic: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age

Lee Hart
 

From: "Hank Riley via Groups.Io" <n1ltv=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Off topic, but Chuck Peddle is such a bedrock visionary, although of a different temperament than fellow
microprocessor pioneer Joseph Weisbecker.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/24/technology/chuck-peddle-dead.html
Temperment; yes. But both were pioneers and visionaries that saw before many others how revolutionary the microcomputer would be. I corresponded with Chuck a couple years ago, and he said he knew Joe Weisbecker.

Even two years ago, he was working on a multicore 6502-based design with internal I/O. Imagine something like the Parallax Propeller, but with internally networked 6502 cores, each with its own I/O.

We sent him one of our 6502 Badges <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/6502.htm>. We built a special version for him, with a MOS Technology 6502, and software to work as a clock (in addition to the built-in monitor and BASIC).

Here's a poem I wrote for him. He liked it, though said it's "Chuck", not Charlie (but he appreciated that "Charlie" fit the Beatles song rhythm better. :-)

Charlie Peddle's Lowly Parts Club Plan

It was 40 years ago today
That computers taught the kids to play
With chips to make a new kind of game
And the world has never been the same
So let me introduce to you
The micro called the 6502!

(...my apologies to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely
Hearts Club Band and the Beatles...)

--
Lee Hart

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com

Off topic: Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age

Hank Riley
 

Off topic, but Chuck Peddle is such a bedrock visionary, although of a different temperament than fellow microprocessor pioneer Joseph Weisbecker.






Only the first few paragraphs follow of the full New York Times Dec. 24 Peddle obituary which is fairly detailed and which contains photographs:


Chuck Peddle Dies at 82; His $25 Chip Helped Start the PC Age

His invention brought digital technology to a new breed of consumer devices and powered early Apple and Commodore computers.


  • Dec. 24, 2019

Chuck Peddle, the engineer and entrepreneur who helped launch the age of the personal computer after designing a microprocessor that sold for a mere $25, died on Dec. 15 at his home in Santa Cruz, Calif. He was 82.

His partner, Kathleen Shaeffer, said the cause was pancreatic cancer.

In 1974, Mr. Peddle and several other engineers were designing a new silicon chip at the Motorola Corporation in Phoenix when the company sent him a letter demanding that he shut the project down.

Mr. Peddle envisioned an ultra-low-cost chip that could bring digital technology to a new breed of consumer devices, from cash registers to personal computers. But his bosses saw it as unwanted in-house competition for the $300 processor Motorola had unveiled that year.

So Mr. Peddle moved the project to MOS Technology, a rival chip maker near Valley Forge, Pa., taking seven other Motorola engineers with him. There they built a processor called the 6502. Priced at $25 — the cost of a dinner for four, and the equivalent of about $130 today — this chip soon powered the first big wave of personal computers in both the United States and Britain, including the Apple II and the Commodore PET.

Re: BASIC3 #BASIC

Jeff Truck <jeff.truck@...>
 

Thanks Everyone for the replies.   I've discovered the address mapping of the various ROMs on the 695 board.   I've also matched up the command section between UT62 and UT71.  I have UT71 running on my system already so I've got something to chew on, provided the task master of the house allows it.   Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Festivus!

Re: BASIC3 #BASIC

Lee Hart
 

From: Jeff Truck <jeff.truck@...>
Does anyone have the original BASIC3 source code or HEX file?   I've done some searches
on this site (files / messages) and even hit up the archive but alas - nothing so far.
Hi Jeff,

I have it. But it's at home, and I'm in MI for the holidays. Email me after New Year, and I'll send it to you. :-)

Merry Christmas!
Lee Hart

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: BASIC3 #BASIC

cmdrcosmac
 


Jeff,
I never found a Basic3 source file, but the ROM dump and a disassembly
can be found at:

http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/cosmac_dev_sys.html

Basic calls UT62 for its serial I/O so you'll need to load that up and then
the Basic.
 UT62 has a bit-bang serial I/O on Q & /EF4.
Here's the patch I used to get it going on my system.
It has a MAX-232 connected to ?EF3 and Q.

.. Save of UT62 serial Patch.
.. READ Patch for UT62on Elf.
..
..        Original  Patch            Original    Patch.
.. !M8143    3F      36              .. BN4       B3
.. !M8145    37      3E              .. B4        BN3
.. !M814F    37      3E              .. B4        BN3
.. !M8151    7B      7A              .. SEQ       REQ
.. !M8154    7A      7B              .. REQ       SEQ
.. !M8164    3F      36              .. BN4       B3
.. !M8169    7A      7B              .. REQ       SEQ
..
.. TYPE Patch.
..
.. !M81C4    7B      7A              .. SEQ       REQ
.. !M81D0    7B      7A              .. SEQ       REQ
.. !M81D4    7A      7B              .. REQ       SEQ
..
.. The RCA -601 CPU board appears to have a non-inverting
.. RS232 interface on /EF4. The Elf/MAX232 interface inverts
.. on /EF3.
..
..
..                Patch            Original    Patch
8143          36;              .. BN4       B3
8145          3E;              .. B4        BN3
814F          3E;              .. B4        BN3
8151          7A;              .. SEQ       REQ
8154          7B;              .. REQ       SEQ
8164          36;              .. BN4       B3
8169          7B;              .. REQ       SEQ
..
..
.. TYPE Patch.
..
81C4          7A;              .. SEQ       REQ
81D0          7A;              .. SEQ       REQ
81D3          7B;              .. REQ       SEQ
81D4          7B;              .. REQ       SEQ
..
.. TIMALC Patch
..
8107          3E;
8109          36;
8114          3E;
8126          36;
8117          3E;
..
.. 8000 C4C4

 Note also that the same Basic will run under UT71, which uses a CDP1854 UART.
 Whichever utility you use you may have to mess with B4/BN4 instructions within the
Basic ROM. Basic uses /EF4 as a BREAK key to get you out of a loop.
 The SuperElf uses /EF4 as the INPUT key. When I tried Basic on the Elf, programs
would run one line and break. When I held the INPUT key, the program would run.
So I disassembled the Basic and found the addresses in the patch below.

.. Save of Basic BREAK Patch.

.. To run on the Elf these need to be inverted, B4<->BN4.
..
B138 3F;

B13A 37;

 This is my $0.02 worth and should get you going.
Happy Holidays!
-Chuck


BASIC3 #BASIC

Jeff Truck <jeff.truck@...>
 

Does anyone have the original BASIC3 source code or HEX file?   I've done some searches on this site (files / messages) and even hit up the archive but alas - nothing so far.

Thanks,

Jeff

Re: Todd's ELF-ish to get an FDC #Homebrew #microboards

taf123
 

Hi Guys -

Santa has come a bit early - RCA Media acquired.











Regards,
Todd

Re: A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

Hans Liss
 

I've designed a board now. Will get a small set of prototypes made to verify that it works, and then I'll publish the design so anyone can order their own boards. I'm not looking to make a business out of this, of course, but I guess I might be able to sell kits at cost if anyone is interested. It would be best to use a ZIF socket on this thing, but other than that it's going to be a very easy build with a few standard components.

/Hans

On 2019-12-23 00:03, joshbensadon via Groups.Io wrote:
Hans,

Are you going to be making a board for it?  Selling any extras?

Josh

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 1:20:05 p.m. EST, Hans Liss <hans@...> wrote:


This design is useful not only for testing the processors, but for actually learning about the 1802 and about microprocessors in general, so I've designed an Arduino Mega 2560 "shield" for this thing now. All the connections are there, and I added four buttons.

Any other ideas for useful things to add?

Hans

On 2019-12-21 15:04, jeff.birt wrote:

I’m glad it was helpful. Sorry for the bug on the DMA input. I never got around to actually wiring it up to the Arduino, so I did not find it 😊

There is a disassembly of all the test programs along with the Github project: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/RCA1802_Tester

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Hans Liss
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 3:32 AM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

 

Thanks Jeff for this brilliant test setup! I've now tested my own batch of Chinese 1802s - this was the only way I could do it at the moment. Turned out nine out of ten were in fact working!

One little detail that had me stumped for the longest time: When you initialize PORTK in setup(), you need to use "|" rather than "&", in order to set all the relevant pins high, otherwise the CPU may be stuck trying to do DMA from the start, like mine did.

I had lots of fun disassembling your EFx input test code to check what it was supposed to do, exactly. I also added a button and a randomization function for the EF pins, so that I can easily verify the functionality.

Best regards,

Hans

On 2019-11-25 01:47, jeff.birt wrote:

With a lot of help and encouragement form this mailing list I put together this Arduino Mega 2560 powered 1802 tester to test the lot of 10, 1802s I bought from a seller in China. While the initial simple set up was sufficient to find I had two bad chips it was fun to improve upon the test rig and I learned a lot about the 1802 in the process.

As luck would have it the serial command input quit responding during the video but has worked every time since. I left it in as that is what happens in real life, things always fail in a demo :)

https://youtu.be/XPwuwjtjXnk

Jeff Birt

 

Re: A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

Hans Liss
 

Good call on the reset button; I've added one now. Unfortunately, there isn't enough room to include any sort of prototyping area. I could probably add pin headers for the data and address buses but I'm not sure that would be very helpful.

One possible improvement would be to add jumpers for the Q and EF pins to allow those to be optionally connected to an external breadboard, along with exposing the remaining I/O pins from the Arduino. That would allow you to build some external circuitry to play with those pins. On the other hand, I realized you can always simulate anything like that in software on the Arduino as well, so it may not be so important after all.

Anyway, I guess I'll finish this up and order PCBs along with my next order to try it out. If it works, you can either include it with your test code or I'll upload it to my GitHub account and you can link to it.

/Hans

On 2019-12-22 22:37, jeff.birt wrote:

I bought a generic Arduino Mega prototyping shield with this sort of idea in mind. They included a small bread board that was not long enough to for a 40pin DIP. I thought that just being able to plug the chip in and easily run wires from the pass-through connectors would make something like the 1802 tester easy to do.

This is the one I bought which is not ideal

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071JDRGGR

I forgot until just now that I had left some of the correct sized small breadboards in my amazon wish list, so I just checked them out.

 

As for what else to add to a custom shield. An accessible reset button, your four buttons for general use, maybe with female headers to wire them as needed. With the small bread board in the center you can also add things as needed. Here is what I just bought. The side power buss strips come off.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07LFD4LT6

I did find the project did make it very handy for learning about the 1802 which was not my intent. The initial mental obstacle of thinking about one processor outputting something to another was interesting as well. It seemed more ‘difficult’ at first until I just went back to thinking of hooking a processor to ‘some I/O’ once that was worked out then I thought about implementing the ‘some I/O’ on the Arduino.

Jeff

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Hans Liss
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 12:20 PM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

 

This design is useful not only for testing the processors, but for actually learning about the 1802 and about microprocessors in general, so I've designed an Arduino Mega 2560 "shield" for this thing now. All the connections are there, and I added four buttons.

Any other ideas for useful things to add?

Hans

On 2019-12-21 15:04, jeff.birt wrote:

I’m glad it was helpful. Sorry for the bug on the DMA input. I never got around to actually wiring it up to the Arduino, so I did not find it 😊

There is a disassembly of all the test programs along with the Github project: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/RCA1802_Tester

 

Jeff Birt

 

Re: A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

joshbensadon
 

Hans,

Are you going to be making a board for it?  Selling any extras?

Josh

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 1:20:05 p.m. EST, Hans Liss <hans@...> wrote:


This design is useful not only for testing the processors, but for actually learning about the 1802 and about microprocessors in general, so I've designed an Arduino Mega 2560 "shield" for this thing now. All the connections are there, and I added four buttons.

Any other ideas for useful things to add?

Hans

On 2019-12-21 15:04, jeff.birt wrote:

I’m glad it was helpful. Sorry for the bug on the DMA input. I never got around to actually wiring it up to the Arduino, so I did not find it 😊

There is a disassembly of all the test programs along with the Github project: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/RCA1802_Tester

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Hans Liss
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 3:32 AM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

 

Thanks Jeff for this brilliant test setup! I've now tested my own batch of Chinese 1802s - this was the only way I could do it at the moment. Turned out nine out of ten were in fact working!

One little detail that had me stumped for the longest time: When you initialize PORTK in setup(), you need to use "|" rather than "&", in order to set all the relevant pins high, otherwise the CPU may be stuck trying to do DMA from the start, like mine did.

I had lots of fun disassembling your EFx input test code to check what it was supposed to do, exactly. I also added a button and a randomization function for the EF pins, so that I can easily verify the functionality.

Best regards,

Hans

On 2019-11-25 01:47, jeff.birt wrote:

With a lot of help and encouragement form this mailing list I put together this Arduino Mega 2560 powered 1802 tester to test the lot of 10, 1802s I bought from a seller in China. While the initial simple set up was sufficient to find I had two bad chips it was fun to improve upon the test rig and I learned a lot about the 1802 in the process.

As luck would have it the serial command input quit responding during the video but has worked every time since. I left it in as that is what happens in real life, things always fail in a demo :)

https://youtu.be/XPwuwjtjXnk

Jeff Birt

 

Re: MS2000 MicroDos Development System

cellarcat
 

Hallelujah!! Just in time for Xmas! I finally got Microdos to load but not from a floppy, from an HxC Floppy Emulator. I converted Dave's .img file to an .imd file, using the HxC software and then loaded that onto the SD card as an indexed DSKA0000.HFE file. The settings are IBM MFM, 600 rpm, and 500,000 data bit rate. I did buy a Sony OA-D33V disk drive (which has the 34 pin connector - the OA-D32V has the 26 pin connector) but can not yet get my disks to load. I am still working on that and I think timing may be an issue. The HxC would not work reliably with the CPU at a clock speed of 4.9152 but is working well at 2.4576. Clearly though there is nothing wrong with my 18S651 floppy disk controller so the disks are the most likely culprits. A big thank you to Dave and Allison for all of their suggestions and insights.

Re: A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

jeff.birt
 

I bought a generic Arduino Mega prototyping shield with this sort of idea in mind. They included a small bread board that was not long enough to for a 40pin DIP. I thought that just being able to plug the chip in and easily run wires from the pass-through connectors would make something like the 1802 tester easy to do.

This is the one I bought which is not ideal

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071JDRGGR

I forgot until just now that I had left some of the correct sized small breadboards in my amazon wish list, so I just checked them out.

 

As for what else to add to a custom shield. An accessible reset button, your four buttons for general use, maybe with female headers to wire them as needed. With the small bread board in the center you can also add things as needed. Here is what I just bought. The side power buss strips come off.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07LFD4LT6

I did find the project did make it very handy for learning about the 1802 which was not my intent. The initial mental obstacle of thinking about one processor outputting something to another was interesting as well. It seemed more ‘difficult’ at first until I just went back to thinking of hooking a processor to ‘some I/O’ once that was worked out then I thought about implementing the ‘some I/O’ on the Arduino.

Jeff

 

From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> On Behalf Of Hans Liss
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 12:20 PM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] A video of my 1802 tester made from Arduino Mega

 

This design is useful not only for testing the processors, but for actually learning about the 1802 and about microprocessors in general, so I've designed an Arduino Mega 2560 "shield" for this thing now. All the connections are there, and I added four buttons.

Any other ideas for useful things to add?

Hans

On 2019-12-21 15:04, jeff.birt wrote:

I’m glad it was helpful. Sorry for the bug on the DMA input. I never got around to actually wiring it up to the Arduino, so I did not find it 😊

There is a disassembly of all the test programs along with the Github project: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/RCA1802_Tester

 

Jeff Birt