Date   
Re: RCA Engineer mag Vol 22 1977 Feb/Mar issue

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Has anyone printed out the FRED System 00 manual?  I have and its a amazing simple and 
clearly a subset of 1802.

It keep tugging on me to build it.  Using modern ram and eprom the core processor
is under 100 pieces of ttl.  

Allison

Re: RCA Engineer mag Vol 22 1977 Feb/Mar issue

bill rowe
 

that's a great find ian.  Thanks for posting.  I know you did a lot of speed/voltage testing of 1802's.  were any of them the SOS types?


From: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io> on behalf of ian may via Groups.Io <fps16xn3@...>
Sent: October 23, 2019 8:44 AM
To: cosmacelf@groups.io <cosmacelf@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] RCA Engineer mag Vol 22 1977 Feb/Mar issue
 
Just over 2 years ago whd_whd_whd wrote: "Does anyone have this issue? There are PDFs of many of them, and they skip around this one issue that has some great 1802 articles in it.
That's the Computer Gods messing with us."

The URL is now https://americanradiohistory.com/RCA_Engineer_Issue_Key.htm and they have a near complete set of RCA Engineer. The one that whd_whd_whd was looking for is here https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1977-02-03.pdf .

A few items that I thought were interesting in this CDP1802 centric edition:
1) The normal 1802 version article has a graph of maximum clock frequency versus supply voltage which shows supply voltages up to 12 Volts. At 12 Volts 7 MHz @ 25C and just over 5 MHz @ 100C - so nothing wrong about 12 Volts at the time.
2) The SOS version article states "preliminary results indicate operation to 30 MHz is possible at 15 V". There are details of the VCC to VDD level shifter circuit and the inputs are listed as TTL compatible.

Interesting things I have read in other issues:
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1974-02-03.pdf  "Simplifying microcomputer architecture" by Joseph Weisbecker - describes the COSMAC architecture.
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1975-02-03.pdf  "A practical, low-cost home/school microcomputer system" by Joseph Weisbecker - describes the TTL "FRED" system (more info here - http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/cosmac_system_00.html ).
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1975-10-11.pdf  "COSMAC - a microprocessor for minimum cost systems" by N.P. Swales and J.A. Weisbecker - describes the 1801 system. In a box-out announces availability of the CDP1801, the "Microkit", manuals and software. Full voltage chips (15V) $56, 5V chips $40 (quantities of 1-99).
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1976-08-09.pdf  "A microcomputer-controlled spark advance system" by A.D. Robbi and J.W. Tuska - uses a CDP1801 Microkit as controller.

Regarding the recent discussion "RCA COS/MOS versus CMOS" https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf/message/24941 issues with articles about COS/MOS :
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1971-06-07.pdf  see pdf page 42 "New low -voltage COS /MOS IC's offer 25-ns speed and direct interfacing with saturated logic".
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1971-08-09.pdf  see pdf page 5 "Solid state: where it's been and where it's headed". pdf page 6 has the following text :
"Clearly, RCA has been the chief mover of cos/mos technology since the David Sarnoff Research Laboratories announced the scientific breakthrough in 1963. We have strung together an impressive list of cos/mos firsts since then: first to introduce developmental types (1967) first to announce circuits capable of operating in the 6-to-15 volt range (1968) first to make available plastic packages (1970) and, last March, first to offer circuits operating in the 3-to-15 volt range."
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1972-12-01.pdf  see pdf page 28 "Development of COS /MOS technology". Author T.G. Athanas "holds five U.S. patents on MOS technology with several others pending."

Using the search function on this page https://americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Site-Technical/Company-Pubications/Archive-RCA-Engineer-IDX/search.cgi with the string "cos/mos" generates lots of results.

Cheers, Ian.

--
Bill Rowe
Olduino - an arduino for the first of us
https://olduino.wordpress.com/about-2/about/

Re: RCA Engineer mag Vol 22 1977 Feb/Mar issue

ian may
 

Just over 2 years ago whd_whd_whd wrote: "Does anyone have this issue? There are PDFs of many of them, and they skip around this one issue that has some great 1802 articles in it.
That's the Computer Gods messing with us."

The URL is now https://americanradiohistory.com/RCA_Engineer_Issue_Key.htm and they have a near complete set of RCA Engineer. The one that whd_whd_whd was looking for is here https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1977-02-03.pdf .

A few items that I thought were interesting in this CDP1802 centric edition:
1) The normal 1802 version article has a graph of maximum clock frequency versus supply voltage which shows supply voltages up to 12 Volts. At 12 Volts 7 MHz @ 25C and just over 5 MHz @ 100C - so nothing wrong about 12 Volts at the time.
2) The SOS version article states "preliminary results indicate operation to 30 MHz is possible at 15 V". There are details of the VCC to VDD level shifter circuit and the inputs are listed as TTL compatible.

Interesting things I have read in other issues:
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1974-02-03.pdf  "Simplifying microcomputer architecture" by Joseph Weisbecker - describes the COSMAC architecture.
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1975-02-03.pdf  "A practical, low-cost home/school microcomputer system" by Joseph Weisbecker - describes the TTL "FRED" system (more info here - http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/cosmac_system_00.html ).
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1975-10-11.pdf  "COSMAC - a microprocessor for minimum cost systems" by N.P. Swales and J.A. Weisbecker - describes the 1801 system. In a box-out announces availability of the CDP1801, the "Microkit", manuals and software. Full voltage chips (15V) $56, 5V chips $40 (quantities of 1-99).
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1976-08-09.pdf  "A microcomputer-controlled spark advance system" by A.D. Robbi and J.W. Tuska - uses a CDP1801 Microkit as controller.

Regarding the recent discussion "RCA COS/MOS versus CMOS" https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf/message/24941 issues with articles about COS/MOS :
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1971-06-07.pdf  see pdf page 42 "New low -voltage COS /MOS IC's offer 25-ns speed and direct interfacing with saturated logic".
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1971-08-09.pdf  see pdf page 5 "Solid state: where it's been and where it's headed". pdf page 6 has the following text :
"Clearly, RCA has been the chief mover of cos/mos technology since the David Sarnoff Research Laboratories announced the scientific breakthrough in 1963. We have strung together an impressive list of cos/mos firsts since then: first to introduce developmental types (1967) first to announce circuits capable of operating in the 6-to-15 volt range (1968) first to make available plastic packages (1970) and, last March, first to offer circuits operating in the 3-to-15 volt range."
https://americanradiohistory.com/ARCHIVE-RCA/RCA-Engineer/1972-12-01.pdf  see pdf page 28 "Development of COS /MOS technology". Author T.G. Athanas "holds five U.S. patents on MOS technology with several others pending."

Using the search function on this page https://americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Site-Technical/Company-Pubications/Archive-RCA-Engineer-IDX/search.cgi with the string "cos/mos" generates lots of results.

Cheers, Ian.

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

thinkpast
 

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 01:18 AM, Dave Ruske wrote:
I'd just add that there are a lot of different email clients out there --- not
all of them make the actual email address obvious, even knowing about that "="
substitution. It's hard to guess what a message is looking like on someone
else's system.
I'll add some more. Some of us, do not receive this group by email. I read these messages through the Web "server" at groups.io for cosmacelf with my Web browser. That's my choice. Reasons include: groups.io archives all the emails I want; I can read them on their site when I want; less email for me to process and delete. Why is this mode so hard to for others to consider as a plausible means for other people?

Also: people who are not members of this group, read archived messages also via Web pages. Web search with the added " site:groups.io cosmacelf" will find specific groups.io messages with some cosmacelf flavors (and when you add additional search terms of course). Web search may be how "new people" find this group.

So: telling (people like) me repeatedly "just look", is not helpful. If those posting, are not familiar with the Web interface and display for groups.io's support of cosmacelf, ahem, "just look". what you'll see, is what will be archived and is available to "the world". For the most part, email addresses are obscured on the Web-interface of groups.io messages.

regards
Herb Johnson

Re: Yahoo Groups Closing, Please Update Links #ThisGroup

Gregg Levine
 

Hello!
Yes indeed.
However.... In truth they are becoming an incompetent list server
service, instead of an incompetent list server service and badly done
file hosting service for it. There's a <DELETED!> big mess being
raised on a lot of the others I belong to who have not moved. Or do
not know how, which is worse.

Bill can you e-mail later regarding that CDP1802 based bar code reader
device off list if you want, but we can keep in here, and with the
right subject. I still do not have the right hardware for making
EPROMS and even to erase them...........

Now that I've read again what I do have on it, I know now what I want
to try and get to do with it.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 8:48 AM joshbensadon via Groups.Io
<joshbensadon=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Bill,

That's too funny! But indeed, I think Dave saw the writing on the wall and made a great choice to move ahead of the inevitable shutdown.

Things keep going this way, then someday there will be a new world wide web and they can finally close the internet.
Perhaps they should call it Earth Everywhere and sites can start with ee.???? See, it's already 1/3 more efficient than www.????

Cheers,
Josh





On Wednesday, October 16, 2019, 8:14:29 AM EDT, bill rowe <@bill2009> wrote:


Wow! I guess they were so hurt when we moved that they just couldn’t keep going!

Seriously though, this will be a big deal - lots of groups still there.

On Oct 16, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Dave Ruske <@druske> wrote:

I don't think there's much impact to our community as we've migrated all content to groups.io, but I wanted to make everyone aware that Yahoo Groups will be closing and removing content on December 14th, 2019. Here's their announcement:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN31010.html

The only impact of note is that people who might follow an old hyperlink to the Yahoo group won't see our "we've moved" notice anymore. I'd ask people with content on the web that might link to the group to check and see if the links are up-to-date. The link to the cosmacelf group here should be:
https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf

Thanks,
Dave


--
Bill Rowe
Olduino - an arduino for the first of us
https://olduino.wordpress.com/about-2/about/

Re: Yahoo Groups Closing, Please Update Links #ThisGroup

joshbensadon
 

Bill, 

That's too funny! But indeed, I think Dave saw the writing on the wall and made a great choice to move ahead of the inevitable shutdown.

Things keep going this way, then someday there will be a new world wide web and they can finally close the internet.
Perhaps they should call it Earth Everywhere and sites can start with ee.????  See, it's already 1/3 more efficient than www.????

Cheers,
Josh





On Wednesday, October 16, 2019, 8:14:29 AM EDT, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:


Wow! I guess they were so hurt when we moved that they just couldn’t keep going!

Seriously though, this will be a big deal - lots of groups still there.

On Oct 16, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Dave Ruske <dave@...> wrote:

I don't think there's much impact to our community as we've migrated all content to groups.io, but I wanted to make everyone aware that Yahoo Groups will be closing and removing content on December 14th, 2019. Here's their announcement:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN31010.html

The only impact of note is that people who might follow an old hyperlink to the Yahoo group won't see our "we've moved" notice anymore. I'd ask people with content on the web that might link to the group to check and see if the links are up-to-date. The link to the cosmacelf group here should be:
https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf

Thanks,
Dave

--
Bill Rowe
Olduino - an arduino for the first of us
https://olduino.wordpress.com/about-2/about/

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Gregg Levine
 

Hello!
It actually helps a lot. Thanks, That does explain a lot regarding
what is going on here. To the TheEagle, take a look at what he wrote.
And I can actually see the footer functions that Dave mentioned.
Depending on what client you are using look at the footer.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 1:18 AM Dave Ruske <@druske> wrote:

I'd just add that there are a lot of different email clients out there --- not all of them make the actual email address obvious, even knowing about that "=" substitution. It's hard to guess what a message is looking like on someone else's system. This is especially true on a site geared towards lovers of vintage computing equipment, who may be using a machine that the rest of the world considers obsolete!

One other thing that can be done to contact someone: in the footer of emails from the cosmacelf group you'll usually see some links --- though exactly what displays and how seems to vary a little, probably due to individual user settings, whether the message originated from the web interface, email, etc. I confess I don't know the formula, but the links are useful when present.

There is usually a link for "View/Reply Online" that'll open the message in a browser. At the top of the message on the groups.io site, there's a link to the sender; click it and you should see some information about the user, and very likely a button to email the individual.

Even better, there is usually a link in the footer that says "Reply To Sender"; click that one, and a modern email client should open up a window to let you compose a new email response directly to the sender. (I think that link is a general feature and not just something exposed to a moderator or list owner --- but I'm not 100% certain and I'm too dead tired to make a fake account and test it right now, so please forgive me if I'm mistaken!)

Hope this helps a little! :)

Dave



On Oct 18, 2019, at 10:47 PM, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@...> wrote:

Look at the line which contains his e-mail address or should be. The
list server bot substitutes an = sign for an @ one. It does that to
protect our e-mail addresses. And in that case you will be able to
e-mail friend regarding his collection of WW sockets.


Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Dave Ruske
 

I'd just add that there are a lot of different email clients out there --- not all of them make the actual email address obvious, even knowing about that "=" substitution. It's hard to guess what a message is looking like on someone else's system. This is especially true on a site geared towards lovers of vintage computing equipment, who may be using a machine that the rest of the world considers obsolete!

One other thing that can be done to contact someone: in the footer of emails from the cosmacelf group you'll usually see some links --- though exactly what displays and how seems to vary a little, probably due to individual user settings, whether the message originated from the web interface, email, etc. I confess I don't know the formula, but the links are useful when present.

There is usually a link for "View/Reply Online" that'll open the message in a browser. At the top of the message on the groups.io site, there's a link to the sender; click it and you should see some information about the user, and very likely a button to email the individual.

Even better, there is usually a link in the footer that says "Reply To Sender"; click that one, and a modern email client should open up a window to let you compose a new email response directly to the sender. (I think that link is a general feature and not just something exposed to a moderator or list owner --- but I'm not 100% certain and I'm too dead tired to make a fake account and test it right now, so please forgive me if I'm mistaken!)

Hope this helps a little! :)

Dave



On Oct 18, 2019, at 10:47 PM, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@...> wrote:

Look at the line which contains his e-mail address or should be. The
list server bot substitutes an = sign for an @ one. It does that to
protect our e-mail addresses. And in that case you will be able to
e-mail friend regarding his collection of WW sockets.

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Gregg Levine
 

Hello!
Look at the line which contains his e-mail address or should be. The
list server bot substitutes an = sign for an @ one. It does that to
protect our e-mail addresses. And in that case you will be able to
e-mail friend regarding his collection of WW sockets. I would of
course, but at the moment I do not need an amazing collection like
that. Sadly my CDP1802 based project idea decided to become a former
project. (It was not based on that fellow's idea to use an Arduino to
do the heavy lifting and the CDP1802 sat on it as part of a shield.)
Oddly enough it was based on that fellow's idea to use the S100 bus
for the CDP1802 and I could not find a source of prototype boards for
that size and a good backplane.

Actually Bill it now seems as if that terminal as a CDP1802 generic
system seems to be more and more interesting. I'll e-mail about that
one later on.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 8:56 PM the-eagle@... <The-Eagle@...> wrote:

Is this a private email server forum, OR a public open website forum? Just my two cent question.

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Gregg Levine
 

Hello!
Normally I'd snap up this offer. But I'd rather these sockets go to
someone who either has or will have an active ELF (Or CDP1802 based)
project taking shape.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 6:41 PM Hank Riley via Groups.Io
<n1ltv=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Mark,

If you look closely at the email sender you'll see Scott's email address in faint gray.

Change the = symbol to the @ symbol to get his real address. That = substitution is done by groups.io.

[Mark does receive email from this group.]

Hank
________________________________________________________________________


On Friday, October 18, 2019, 01:41:21 PM EDT, Mark Huffstutter <mhuffstutter@...> wrote:


Hi Scott,

I would love to have the sockets, but I can't find Your private
email addie in the header to reply.

Thank You,
Mark

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Hank Riley
 

Mark,

If you look closely at the email sender you'll see Scott's email address in faint gray.

Change the = symbol to the @ symbol to get his real address.  That = substitution is done by groups.io.

[Mark does receive email from this group.]

Hank
________________________________________________________________________


On Friday, October 18, 2019, 01:41:21 PM EDT, Mark Huffstutter <mhuffstutter@...> wrote:


Hi Scott,

          I would love to have the sockets, but I can't find Your private
email addie in the header to reply.

Thank You,
Mark

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Lee Hart
 

somaspack via Groups.Io wrote:
Cleaning out my boxes of stuff found a set of wire wrap sockets I had
bought about ten years ago with the intention of making an Elf. I never
used them and never will. FREE + $8 USPS shipping in US. Contact me
privately. Scott
Hi Scott,

I still build things with wire-wrap, so I'd be more than happy to take you up on your offer. The last thing I built was a vintage Elf for VCFMW <www.sunrise-ev.com/vcf-elf.htm> :-)

My address is in my signature lines below. I can Paypal you the funds for postage if you provide a Paypal address, or can mail them to you if you send me your mailing address.

--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

Re: FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

Mark Huffstutter
 

Hi Scott,

I would love to have the sockets, but I can't find Your private
email addie in the header to reply.

Thank You,
Mark

Cleaning out my boxes of stuff found a set of wire wrap sockets I had
bought about ten years ago with the intention of making an  Elf. I never
used them and never will. FREE + $8 USPS shipping in US. Contact me
privately. Scott



FREE: Wire-wrap sockets need home

somaspack
 

Cleaning out my boxes of stuff found a set of wire wrap sockets I had bought about ten years ago with the intention of making an  Elf. I never used them and never will. FREE + $8 USPS shipping in US. Contact me privately. Scott

Re: Frankenstein UART Board #Serial #Homebrew

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

RE: Eprom programmers. 

the problem is I have 4 of them, one lives on S100 bus and can do any 27xxx part
thats handy for a lot of parts even programming 8755 and 8748/9.
Another requires a PC with parallel port and old Winders (98 and maybe XP) ,
Fortunately I have a box for that.   A stand alone Kontron that can only do
2708 and 2716, and a Arduino USB serial gadget made for 27C256.

I have nothing that is for linux and USB save for the Arduino based quickie unit.

And I've generally move to 28xxx parts EEPROM and flash so one off
programmers are generally the rule now.  Arduino makes that fairly easy.

Allison

Re: Yahoo Groups Closing, Please Update Links #ThisGroup

awasson2001
 

Holy smokes. Good work on getting the group moved early on Dave. I’m sure a lot of groups are just now busy jumping through hoops to manage that. I’m in several other Yahoo Groups that have not done so and as of yet, there is no discussion to do so. Kudos for taking the initiative to move us when you did. 

Cheers,
Andrew



On Oct 16, 2019, at 5:08 AM, Dave Ruske <dave@...> wrote:

I don't think there's much impact to our community as we've migrated all content to groups.io, but I wanted to make everyone aware that Yahoo Groups will be closing and removing content on December 14th, 2019. Here's their announcement:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN31010.html

The only impact of note is that people who might follow an old hyperlink to the Yahoo group won't see our "we've moved" notice anymore. I'd ask people with content on the web that might link to the group to check and see if the links are up-to-date. The link to the cosmacelf group here should be:
https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf

Thanks,
Dave

Re: Yahoo Groups Closing, Please Update Links #ThisGroup

bill rowe
 

Wow! I guess they were so hurt when we moved that they just couldn’t keep going!

Seriously though, this will be a big deal - lots of groups still there.

On Oct 16, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Dave Ruske <dave@...> wrote:

I don't think there's much impact to our community as we've migrated all content to groups.io, but I wanted to make everyone aware that Yahoo Groups will be closing and removing content on December 14th, 2019. Here's their announcement:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN31010.html

The only impact of note is that people who might follow an old hyperlink to the Yahoo group won't see our "we've moved" notice anymore. I'd ask people with content on the web that might link to the group to check and see if the links are up-to-date. The link to the cosmacelf group here should be:
https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf

Thanks,
Dave

--
Bill Rowe
Olduino - an arduino for the first of us
https://olduino.wordpress.com/about-2/about/

Yahoo Groups Closing, Please Update Links #ThisGroup

Dave Ruske
 

I don't think there's much impact to our community as we've migrated all content to groups.io, but I wanted to make everyone aware that Yahoo Groups will be closing and removing content on December 14th, 2019. Here's their announcement:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN31010.html

The only impact of note is that people who might follow an old hyperlink to the Yahoo group won't see our "we've moved" notice anymore. I'd ask people with content on the web that might link to the group to check and see if the links are up-to-date. The link to the cosmacelf group here should be:
https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf

Thanks,
Dave

Re: Frankenstein UART Board #Serial #Homebrew

Jeff Truck
 

Allison,

Regarding your comment on loose wires with Frankie.   Yes - they pop up from time to time and I have to deal with that when it happens.  It helps to have super accurate mapping documents which I maintain on record just in case.   

The UART and Video boards utilize strip boards for which the wires and sockets are all soldered.  No loose wires in this case.   Since these functions came later in Frankie's life I have learned from the burn of using breadboards hence the usage of strip boards.  As additional circuits on the breadboard mature, they will be converted over to strip board as well.   I have two major projects planned for Frankie and they will also be strip board.

Thank you regarding your comments on the wire colors and work of art.   It does indeed look colorful.  I tried to keep colors grouped based on origination points.   The art effect just comes around naturally.   Jameco has certainly had a good year of sales when it comes to wire thanks to me.

Jeff


Re: Frankenstein UART Board #Serial #Homebrew

somaspack
 

For me an EPROM programmer is a required tool. I highly recommend "mcumall dot com" and their 'true USB Willem' EPROM/EEPROM programmer for $95. I've had one of these for near a decade and it works great - programs dang near anything on the planet from 2716 up.

Scott