Future of PPW panel


James Gray
 

What is known about the risk that Adobe may do something to totally break the PPW panel?  Is there a risk that Giuliani will not be able to fix it if Adobe breaks it?  I would certainly be willing to pay about 30 Euros for the PPW panel to have a working version if Adobe breaks it.

Jim Gray


Michael Colby
 

Its going to have to be re-written to for the new plug-in api/platform, UXP. At some point adobe will retire the old platform/sdk and all panels will have to, by that time, be ready re-written for the UPX platform.

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Gray
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:42 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

What is known about the risk that Adobe may do something to totally break the PPW panel?  Is there a risk that Giuliani will not be able to fix it if Adobe breaks it?  I would certainly be willing to pay about 30 Euros for the PPW panel to have a working version if Adobe breaks it.

 

Jim Gray


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Daniele Di Stanio
 

With one notable exception. If you buy a Mac with an Apple Silicon chip, the latest and native Ps version you can install is UXP-only.

You can still use CEP extensions only running an older version of Ps via Rosetta.

More on this:

Daniele Di Stanio
fabbricacinema.com, Founder / CdA



On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 4:46 AM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:

Its going to have to be re-written to for the new plug-in api/platform, UXP. At some point adobe will retire the old platform/sdk and all panels will have to, by that time, be ready re-written for the UPX platform.

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Gray
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:42 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

What is known about the risk that Adobe may do something to totally break the PPW panel?  Is there a risk that Giuliani will not be able to fix it if Adobe breaks it?  I would certainly be willing to pay about 30 Euros for the PPW panel to have a working version if Adobe breaks it.

 

Jim Gray


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Kirk West
 

Hi All

 

I know Daniele raised this point late last year to the group. However I concur with Jame’s point of view and would also be prepared to pay for the panel as it is part of a workflow that solves most of my post processing challenges and gives me very presentable images. Daniele has a work around but a lot of us are getting on and to learn new methods might just remove the enjoyment we get from our photography.

 

Kirk West

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Michael Colby
Sent: 19 April 2021 04:46
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

Its going to have to be re-written to for the new plug-in api/platform, UXP. At some point adobe will retire the old platform/sdk and all panels will have to, by that time, be ready re-written for the UPX platform.

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Gray
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:42 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

What is known about the risk that Adobe may do something to totally break the PPW panel?  Is there a risk that Giuliani will not be able to fix it if Adobe breaks it?  I would certainly be willing to pay about 30 Euros for the PPW panel to have a working version if Adobe breaks it.

 

Jim Gray

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


Davide Barranca
 

Hi,
at the very bottom of the article that Daniele has mentioned there's a link to an Adobe document explaining Photoshop support changes (for those who want to know more).
That one is mostly targeted to C++ plugin developers, but Adobe's released a post specifically about the Silicon/ARM transition for CEP products such as the PPW panel: 

https://medium.com/adobetech/in-app-extensibility-support-for-arm-apple-silicon-devices-4f5e69f72eab

The relevant part is this table:



Where you see that CEP won't work on both Windows ARM and Apple Silicon (native) devices, nor for that matter Adobe Generator—which is a technology that some third-party panels may rely upon (a notable example is the Doco panel). 

TL;DR
Daniele is correct: CEP won't work but via Rosetta (Intel) emulation. But there's more: with Generator it is the same, and no luck on Win/ARM devices.

Davide Barranca


Michael Colby
 

I see a mac mini 2018 in my near future to replace my 2010 mac pro.  Not an M-chip powered mac.

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniele Di Stanio
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 1:02 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

With one notable exception. If you buy a Mac with an Apple Silicon chip, the latest and native Ps version you can install is UXP-only.

 

You can still use CEP extensions only running an older version of Ps via Rosetta.

 

More on this:


Daniele Di Stanio

fabbricacinema.com, Founder / CdA

 

 

 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 4:46 AM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:

Its going to have to be re-written to for the new plug-in api/platform, UXP. At some point adobe will retire the old platform/sdk and all panels will have to, by that time, be ready re-written for the UPX platform.

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Gray
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:42 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

What is known about the risk that Adobe may do something to totally break the PPW panel?  Is there a risk that Giuliani will not be able to fix it if Adobe breaks it?  I would certainly be willing to pay about 30 Euros for the PPW panel to have a working version if Adobe breaks it.

 

Jim Gray

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


bill_iverson_washington
 

I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Jim Sanderson
 

I would also be happy to pay for an update. I use the panel almost daily. 

Jim Sanderson 

, with purpose and great thought. 

On Apr 19, 2021, at 8:43 AM, bill_iverson_washington <bill@...> wrote:



I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Michael Colby
 

I’d happily pay for an update or pay for it as if was a new panel. 

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Sanderson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:13 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

I would also be happy to pay for an update. I use the panel almost daily. 

 

Jim Sanderson 

, with purpose and great thought. 



On Apr 19, 2021, at 8:43 AM, bill_iverson_washington <bill@...> wrote:



I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Michael Colby
 

I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Virus-free. www.avast.com


bill bane
 

I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:
First, how long will the existing panel work?
Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?
Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?
Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?
Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.
Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.
Bill


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:

I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Kent Sutorius
 

If PPW were to be rewritten, could it be made available to more than one platform? How about Affinity Photo?

Kent Sutorius


On 4/19/2021 4:20 PM, bill bane wrote:
I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:
First, how long will the existing panel work?
Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?
Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?
Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?
Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.
Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.
Bill


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:

I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


Virus-free. www.avast.com



Glenn Smith
 

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will correct me, but my understanding is that at some point the Panel will stop working.  The Actions should still work and be available for manual use from the Actions menu.  If this is correct, it also suggests that it is a much smaller effort than starting from scratch.

I am a semi-retired software engineer, and while I have always avoided UI work in my professional career I am familiar with the technologies Adobe uses.  I am open to contributing in some way to development of a replacement, but I cannot commit to doing it all.

Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: bill bane <bill.bane@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:
First, how long will the existing panel work?
Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?
Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?
Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?
Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.
Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.
Bill


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:
I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊
 
From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel
 
I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.
 
Bill Iverson

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Daniele Di Stanio
 

Hi Glenn!

UXP is using ES6, while ExtendScript in CEP was using ES3. We are talking about sixteen years of differences. I have no knowledge of how the panel was built, but I'm pretty sure it is quite more than a set of actions (MMM for example).

At this link:

you can find some directions depending on your experience.

Also, our friend Davide is recording a very good series of free videos you find here:

Hope it helps!

Daniele Di Stanio
fabbricacinema.com, Founder / CdA



On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 6:16 PM Glenn Smith via groups.io <glenncsmith=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will correct me, but my understanding is that at some point the Panel will stop working.  The Actions should still work and be available for manual use from the Actions menu.  If this is correct, it also suggests that it is a much smaller effort than starting from scratch.

I am a semi-retired software engineer, and while I have always avoided UI work in my professional career I am familiar with the technologies Adobe uses.  I am open to contributing in some way to development of a replacement, but I cannot commit to doing it all.

Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: bill bane <bill.bane@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:
First, how long will the existing panel work?
Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?
Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?
Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?
Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.
Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.
Bill


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:
I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊
 
From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel
 
I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.
 
Bill Iverson

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Glenn Smith
 

Daniele,

   Yes I assumed that it is more than simply running the actions.  When building any user software, designing the User interaction is often the biggest task, often bigger than implementing it.  If we use the existing panel as the design goal, then the effort and risk are greatly reduced.  I am setting up an environment for UXP development and will do some experiments to get a feel for what effort is involved.

   Thanks for the link to Davide's videos.

Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: Daniele Di Stanio <daniele.distanio@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2021 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

Hi Glenn!

UXP is using ES6, while ExtendScript in CEP was using ES3. We are talking about sixteen years of differences. I have no knowledge of how the panel was built, but I'm pretty sure it is quite more than a set of actions (MMM for example).

At this link:

you can find some directions depending on your experience.

Also, our friend Davide is recording a very good series of free videos you find here:

Hope it helps!

Daniele Di Stanio
fabbricacinema.com, Founder / CdA



On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 6:16 PM Glenn Smith via groups.io <glenncsmith=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will correct me, but my understanding is that at some point the Panel will stop working.  The Actions should still work and be available for manual use from the Actions menu.  If this is correct, it also suggests that it is a much smaller effort than starting from scratch.

I am a semi-retired software engineer, and while I have always avoided UI work in my professional career I am familiar with the technologies Adobe uses.  I am open to contributing in some way to development of a replacement, but I cannot commit to doing it all.

Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: bill bane <bill.bane@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:
First, how long will the existing panel work?
Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?
Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?
Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?
Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.
Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.
Bill


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:
I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊
 
From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel
 
I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.
 
Bill Iverson

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Dan Derousie
 

Just curious, but who actually “owns” PPW?

 

Dan

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn Smith via groups.io
Sent: April 21, 2021 2:12 PM
To: daniele.distanio@...; colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

Daniele,

 

   Yes I assumed that it is more than simply running the actions.  When building any user software, designing the User interaction is often the biggest task, often bigger than implementing it.  If we use the existing panel as the design goal, then the effort and risk are greatly reduced.  I am setting up an environment for UXP development and will do some experiments to get a feel for what effort is involved.

 

   Thanks for the link to Davide's videos.

 

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniele Di Stanio <daniele.distanio@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2021 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

Hi Glenn!

 

UXP is using ES6, while ExtendScript in CEP was using ES3. We are talking about sixteen years of differences. I have no knowledge of how the panel was built, but I'm pretty sure it is quite more than a set of actions (MMM for example).

 

At this link:

 

you can find some directions depending on your experience.

 

Also, our friend Davide is recording a very good series of free videos you find here:

 

Hope it helps!


Daniele Di Stanio

fabbricacinema.com, Founder / CdA

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 6:16 PM Glenn Smith via groups.io <glenncsmith=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will correct me, but my understanding is that at some point the Panel will stop working.  The Actions should still work and be available for manual use from the Actions menu.  If this is correct, it also suggests that it is a much smaller effort than starting from scratch.

 

I am a semi-retired software engineer, and while I have always avoided UI work in my professional career I am familiar with the technologies Adobe uses.  I am open to contributing in some way to development of a replacement, but I cannot commit to doing it all.

 

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: bill bane <bill.bane@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

I think I and many others would pay this amount and even more. But, I suspect, that this is not the first question. Here are some questions I think are relevant but I do not know the answer to:

First, how long will the existing panel work?

Second, when will it be the case that Adobe's support for the new method, perhaps a SDK, is ready, stable, mature, etc?

Third, is there anyone with both the competence and interest in undertaking this task?

Fourth, if there is such a person, what would be necessary to induce them to give it a try? If a certain amount of money, which would make sense to me, maybe we might be given a target?

Fifth, then, perhaps we could each and all commit some of our money into some suitable web account.

Sixth, as this might be all speculation and the person might later change their mind, or we might not meet the needed target, I might suggest we place this money into Dan's kitty that he has used for providing his books to schools and such, and if a developer does not emerge, Dan could usefully use the money otherwise. However, I have no idea if this would be acceptable to Dan.

Bill

 

 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:59 PM Michael Colby <mcolby@...> wrote:

I’d be happy to pay $50 US 😊

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of bill_iverson_washington
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:44 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Future of PPW panel

 

I too would be willing to pay for the PPW panel, at least 30 dollars or euros.

 

Bill Iverson


--
Dan Derousie


Davide Barranca
 

Hello list members,
I didn't plan to chime in before having discussed this privately (and extensively) with Giuliana, but the conversation's escalated quickly so let me clarify a few points. To the best of my knowledge:

  • the PPW as a concept, workflow, and possibly actions too is entirely owned by Dan.
  • The IP of the PPW as a panel is Giuliana's. She wrote the entirety of the code, which is not open-source, built the installers, etc.
  • The PPW panel is not in the slightest an "actions panel" (i.e. buttons triggering Actions' play). It's an awfully complex set of scripts and dialogs.
I'm in touch with Giuliana (a dear friend of mine), who's asked me to brainstorm together about the UXP port of the PPW. We've yet to start because of life in general: her line of work (not coding) involves a full commitment and I'm doing stuff to keep afloat during these pandemic years too, but we'll surely have this discussion in due time. Inevitably it'll touch also the commercial side of things: there are multiple ways to fund a project now (e.g. kickstart campaigns, subscriptions, etc.) and there will be minimum requirements for sure. At the moment I've nothing else to say about the porting re: my involvement, at least not before having talked with Giuliana. 

My take on questions found in this thread as follows.

  • PPW for other apps: it strictly depends on the extensibility of such apps. Affinity Photo hasn't exposed a scripting interface yet.
  • PPW support as is in PS: only Adobe knows, but my best bet is a couple of years before Adobe shuts down CEP entirely. As stated earlier, CEP/Generator do not work on AppleSilicon/M1 machines natively, you've got to run PS in Intel emulation mode via Rosetta 2.
  • Stable/mature SDK: (insert laughs) UXP is in its infancy, and the PS scripting API is being rewritten from the ground up too. Meaning that both the plugin architecture and the script layer under the hood are sub-par at the moment. Alas, we're nowhere near stable/mature. The team is working really hard and there are very good developers, but Adobe being Adobe (despite being a rolling-in-cash-Adobe) they're understaffed, IMHO.
I hope this clarifies.
Best,

Davide Barranca


Kent Sutorius
 

Davide,
I appreciate your comments regarding PPW. Thank you.

Kent Sutorius

On 4/22/2021 4:48 AM, Davide Barranca wrote:
Hello list members,
I didn't plan to chime in before having discussed this privately (and extensively) with Giuliana, but the conversation's escalated quickly so let me clarify a few points. To the best of my knowledge:

  • the PPW as a concept, workflow, and possibly actions too is entirely owned by Dan.
  • The IP of the PPW as a panel is Giuliana's. She wrote the entirety of the code, which is not open-source, built the installers, etc.
  • The PPW panel is not in the slightest an "actions panel" (i.e. buttons triggering Actions' play). It's an awfully complex set of scripts and dialogs.
I'm in touch with Giuliana (a dear friend of mine), who's asked me to brainstorm together about the UXP port of the PPW. We've yet to start because of life in general: her line of work (not coding) involves a full commitment and I'm doing stuff to keep afloat during these pandemic years too, but we'll surely have this discussion in due time. Inevitably it'll touch also the commercial side of things: there are multiple ways to fund a project now (e.g. kickstart campaigns, subscriptions, etc.) and there will be minimum requirements for sure. At the moment I've nothing else to say about the porting re: my involvement, at least not before having talked with Giuliana. 

My take on questions found in this thread as follows.

  • PPW for other apps: it strictly depends on the extensibility of such apps. Affinity Photo hasn't exposed a scripting interface yet.
  • PPW support as is in PS: only Adobe knows, but my best bet is a couple of years before Adobe shuts down CEP entirely. As stated earlier, CEP/Generator do not work on AppleSilicon/M1 machines natively, you've got to run PS in Intel emulation mode via Rosetta 2.
  • Stable/mature SDK: (insert laughs) UXP is in its infancy, and the PS scripting API is being rewritten from the ground up too. Meaning that both the plugin architecture and the script layer under the hood are sub-par at the moment. Alas, we're nowhere near stable/mature. The team is working really hard and there are very good developers, but Adobe being Adobe (despite being a rolling-in-cash-Adobe) they're understaffed, IMHO.
I hope this clarifies.
Best,

Davide Barranca



Frederick Yocum
 

Thanks David for that fulsome response to PPW users worries about the PPW being left behind in the rush to new technology. 

What I hear you saying is, Relax, we are not anywhere near the need to rush headlong into change. When the time comes, there are multiple ways to fund the work it will take to keep PPW functioning.

Thank you Guiliana,  David and Dan for developing and maintaining a tool that served me so well over the years.
 
regards,

Frederick Yocum
frederick@...

Mobile: +1 717 341 2226
Skype: frederickyocum
Twitter: @frederickyocum
Website:frederickyocum.com





On Apr 22, 2021, at 4:48 AM, Davide Barranca <undavide@...> wrote:

Hello list members,
I didn't plan to chime in before having discussed this privately (and extensively) with Giuliana, but the conversation's escalated quickly so let me clarify a few points. To the best of my knowledge:

  • the PPW as a concept, workflow, and possibly actions too is entirely owned by Dan.
  • The IP of the PPW as a panel is Giuliana's. She wrote the entirety of the code, which is not open-source, built the installers, etc.
  • The PPW panel is not in the slightest an "actions panel" (i.e. buttons triggering Actions' play). It's an awfully complex set of scripts and dialogs.
I'm in touch with Giuliana (a dear friend of mine), who's asked me to brainstorm together about the UXP port of the PPW. We've yet to start because of life in general: her line of work (not coding) involves a full commitment and I'm doing stuff to keep afloat during these pandemic years too, but we'll surely have this discussion in due time. Inevitably it'll touch also the commercial side of things: there are multiple ways to fund a project now (e.g. kickstart campaigns, subscriptions, etc.) and there will be minimum requirements for sure. At the moment I've nothing else to say about the porting re: my involvement, at least not before having talked with Giuliana. 

My take on questions found in this thread as follows.

  • PPW for other apps: it strictly depends on the extensibility of such apps. Affinity Photo hasn't exposed a scripting interface yet.
  • PPW support as is in PS: only Adobe knows, but my best bet is a couple of years before Adobe shuts down CEP entirely. As stated earlier, CEP/Generator do not work on AppleSilicon/M1 machines natively, you've got to run PS in Intel emulation mode via Rosetta 2.
  • Stable/mature SDK: (insert laughs) UXP is in its infancy, and the PS scripting API is being rewritten from the ground up too. Meaning that both the plugin architecture and the script layer under the hood are sub-par at the moment. Alas, we're nowhere near stable/mature. The team is working really hard and there are very good developers, but Adobe being Adobe (despite being a rolling-in-cash-Adobe) they're understaffed, IMHO.
I hope this clarifies.
Best,

Davide Barranca


Dan Margulis
 



On Apr 22, 2021, at 4:48 AM, Davide Barranca <undavide@...> wrote:

Hello list members,
I didn't plan to chime in before having discussed this privately (and extensively) with Giuliana, but the conversation's escalated quickly so let me clarify a few points. To the best of my knowledge:

  • the PPW as a concept, workflow, and possibly actions too is entirely owned by Dan.
I don’t believe that concepts can ever be “owned,” nor Photoshop actions. The PPW name, I suppose, is mine.
  • The IP of the PPW as a panel is Giuliana's. She wrote the entirety of the code, which is not open-source, built the installers, etc.
Correct, and it was more work than most realize.
  • The PPW panel is not in the slightest an "actions panel" (i.e. buttons triggering Actions' play). It's an awfully complex set of scripts and dialogs.
That’s correct, too. We can make the underlying actions available, but almost all of the optional stuff would be gone, the Variants functionality, and all of the hidden stuff within the panel. Plus, the enormous benefit of having the scripts be cancellable by Command-Z. Without that, you’d better not run a large action by mistake, because your entire image history will be flushed.

I'm in touch with Giuliana (a dear friend of mine), who's asked me to brainstorm together about the UXP port of the PPW. We've yet to start because of life in general: her line of work (not coding) involves a full commitment and I'm doing stuff to keep afloat during these pandemic years too, but we'll surely have this discussion in due time. Inevitably it'll touch also the commercial side of things: there are multiple ways to fund a project now (e.g. kickstart campaigns, subscriptions, etc.) and there will be minimum requirements for sure. At the moment I've nothing else to say about the porting re: my involvement, at least not before having talked with Giuliana.

That’s a hard choice and I will support whatever Giuliana and Davide decide. These are demanding times.

Dan