moderated Case study: Carnival


Dan Margulis
 

You are invited to participate in an exercise looking for solutions to a problem that doesn’t come up that often, but when it does, can be a nightmare, especially for those without a lot of CMYK experience.

 

The situation: you have a photo, or other artwork, featuring a large, brilliantly colored object upon which the success of the reproduction depends. The file is in RGB. So far, so good, but unfortunately you are asked to bring the result into print, in this case, into a book.

 

The problem is that the object is well out of the gamut of the destination. Matching the RGB in print is therefore impossible. Clients often find it very difficult to believe this, and demand that we try harder. So we try to force more color into the CMYK file. Normally this doesn’t create more believable color but it does smash detail into smithereens.

 

The objective, then: make it as colorful as possible in CMYK, subject to retaining enough detail for believability. This is a tougher assignment than it seems. I always have one file of this nature in my advanced class and it is usually voted one of the most instructive.

 

Our new example comes from our Roberto Tartaglione, in southern Italy. He writes,

 

I took advantage of the lockdown to study (mostly your books) and to collect pictures shot in almost a decade in Lucania, a lovely region in South Italy for a photographic project about Carnival. I found problems with a group of pictures regarding the costume of "Domino", a deep red (more yellow than magenta) that converting in CMYK as you often emphasise, loses almost all its shape.

I’m not interested in the exact color reproduction, my book (if I Will succeed in my project) will never be a fabric catalog, 
what I want is the feeling of the costume, his shape indeed.

 

Below is a low-res version of what he is talking about. The original (in Adobe RGB) is in a folder in our Photos section, titled Case Study: Carnival. Download it and convert it to CMYK and you’ll see the magnitude of the problem Roberto faces. 

 

If you’d like to play, the rules of engagement, which have worked well in the past, are appended.

 

In a time where so many of us are faced with impossible tasks in matters unrelated to imaging, it is oddly appropriate to be given such an impossible chore in reproduction. But let’s, as in life, play the cards we are dealt, without blaming them on an international conspiracy against photographers, or saying that photographs like this don’t exist in real life and must have been created in a lab by sinister Italian forces.

 

Good luck!

 

Dan Margulis 

*You can use whatever methods you like to improve the picture, but please keep clear records of what you did for discussion. List members find these very valuable.

 

*Use the sizes designated. Do not crop, rotate, or alter the sizing.

 

*The designated printing condition is CMYK, Coated FOGRA27. The profile is available within Photoshop. Do not try to outguess the printer by saying that you don’t know whether they really will print to this profile. For our purposes, what we see is what we’re going to get.

 

*Your final file is to be CMYK with the FOGRA27 tag embedded. We are not interested in RGB files with the statement that “it’s up to the printer to get it right.”

 

*When finished, save in JPEG form, quality level 9. E-mail it to me, with a brief explanation of how you produced it.

 

*Entries close Saturday, 16 May, at  06:00 Eastern time, 1100Z, 12:00 ora italiana.

 

*Rather than confirm every entrant I've received, I will periodically post the initials of everyone whose file I have.

 

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: Last time several contestants got so into the spirit of things that they sent me a new file almost every day. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it isn’t fair to me. If you think you might be reviewing/reworking the file, keep it for a day until you’re sure that what you have is good, *then* send it.





Jim Sanderson
 

Current addition of PS didn't have FOGRA27 but does have FOGRA28.  Should we download 27 and not use 28?


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 9, 2020 9:28 am
Subject: [colortheory] Case study: Carnival

You are invited to participate in an exercise looking for solutions to a problem that doesn’t come up that often, but when it does, can be a nightmare, especially for those without a lot of CMYK experience.
 
The situation: you have a photo, or other artwork, featuring a large, brilliantly colored object upon which the success of the reproduction depends. The file is in RGB. So far, so good, but unfortunately you are asked to bring the result into print, in this case, into a book.
 
The problem is that the object is well out of the gamut of the destination. Matching the RGB in print is therefore impossible. Clients often find it very difficult to believe this, and demand that we try harder. So we try to force more color into the CMYK file. Normally this doesn’t create more believable color but it does smash detail into smithereens.
 
The objective, then: make it as colorful as possible in CMYK, subject to retaining enough detail for believability. This is a tougher assignment than it seems. I always have one file of this nature in my advanced class and it is usually voted one of the most instructive.
 
Our new example comes from our Roberto Tartaglione, in southern Italy. He writes,
 
I took advantage of the lockdown to study (mostly your books) and to collect pictures shot in almost a decade in Lucania, a lovely region in South Italy for a photographic project about Carnival. I found problems with a group of pictures regarding the costume of "Domino", a deep red (more yellow than magenta) that converting in CMYK as you often emphasise, loses almost all its shape.

I’m not interested in the exact color reproduction, my book (if I Will succeed in my project) will never be a fabric catalog, 
what I want is the feeling of the costume, his shape indeed.
 
Below is a low-res version of what he is talking about. The original (in Adobe RGB) is in a folder in our Photos section, titled Case Study: Carnival. Download it and convert it to CMYK and you’ll see the magnitude of the problem Roberto faces. 
 
If you’d like to play, the rules of engagement, which have worked well in the past, are appended.
 
In a time where so many of us are faced with impossible tasks in matters unrelated to imaging, it is oddly appropriate to be given such an impossible chore in reproduction. But let’s, as in life, play the cards we are dealt, without blaming them on an international conspiracy against photographers, or saying that photographs like this don’t exist in real life and must have been created in a lab by sinister Italian forces.
 
Good luck!
 
Dan Margulis 

*You can use whatever methods you like to improve the picture, but please keep clear records of what you did for discussion. List members find these very valuable.
 
*Use the sizes designated. Do not crop, rotate, or alter the sizing.
 
*The designated printing condition is CMYK, Coated FOGRA27. The profile is available within Photoshop. Do not try to outguess the printer by saying that you don’t know whether they really will print to this profile. For our purposes, what we see is what we’re going to get.
 
*Your final file is to be CMYK with the FOGRA27 tag embedded. We are not interested in RGB files with the statement that “it’s up to the printer to get it right.”
 
*When finished, save in JPEG form, quality level 9. E-mail it to me, with a brief explanation of how you produced it.
 
*Entries close Saturday, 16 May, at  06:00 Eastern time, 1100Z, 12:00 ora italiana.
 
*Rather than confirm every entrant I've received, I will periodically post the initials of everyone whose file I have.
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: Last time several contestants got so into the spirit of things that they sent me a new file almost every day. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it isn’t fair to me. If you think you might be reviewing/reworking the file, keep it for a day until you’re sure that what you have is good, *then* send it.





Robert Wheeler
 

In my copy of Photoshop CC, build 21.1.2, the view menu/proof setup/custom produces a window with a drop down box under Proof Conditions/Device to Simulate. In that drop down I find “Coated FOGRA27 (ISO 12647-2:2004) which seems to be the closest match to what was given in the instructions. I’ll be using this one unless we hear otherwise.

 

However, the drop-down list also has a lot of choices relating to my Epson SC-P800 printer that might have been installed when I added my printer driver. I have not installed any CMYK printers, but I can’t be completely sure which choices came with Photoshop originally and which, if any, might be related to items added when printers were installed.

 

Robert Wheeler


Jim Sanderson
 

Thanks,  I found it.  I didn't see a noticeable difference when converted so all is well.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Wheeler <bwheeler350@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 9, 2020 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Case study: Carnival

In my copy of Photoshop CC, build 21.1.2, the view menu/proof setup/custom produces a window with a drop down box under Proof Conditions/Device to Simulate. In that drop down I find “Coated FOGRA27 (ISO 12647-2:2004) which seems to be the closest match to what was given in the instructions. I’ll be using this one unless we hear otherwise.
 
However, the drop-down list also has a lot of choices relating to my Epson SC-P800 printer that might have been installed when I added my printer driver. I have not installed any CMYK printers, but I can’t be completely sure which choices came with Photoshop originally and which, if any, might be related to items added when printers were installed.
 
Robert Wheeler


Rex Waygood
 


Jim Sanderson
 

I'm running the latest edition of PS on Windows and it is there on mine, for some reason I missed it the first time around and only found 28.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Waygood via groups.io <rex_waygood@...>
To: colortheory@groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 9, 2020 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Case study: Carnival


Dan Margulis
 

On May 9, 2020, at 12:28 PM, Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis@...> wrote:

The situation: you have a photo, or other artwork, featuring a large, brilliantly colored object upon which the success of the reproduction depends. The file is in RGB. So far, so good, but unfortunately you are asked to bring the result into print, in this case, into a book.


A reminder that the deadline for entries in this study is in just under 48 hours.

Another reminder, and since I’ve already made this request twice I’ll put it in bold:
DON’T POST YOUR ENTRY TO THIS LIST!
Nobody should have their own work influenced by what they saw from somebody else. Send the file to me, and I’ll post everything Saturday.

To date I have entries from the following:
BB
GB
MD
RG
BJ
PM
HN
RSA
RT
LV

Dan


Dan Margulis
 


On May 14, 2020, at 9:59 AM, Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis@...> wrote:


A reminder that the deadline for entries in this study is in just under 48 hours.

Entries for this case study are now closed. We have 19 corrected versions, plus the original, plus a default version that simply converts the Adobe RGB file to FOGRA27, plus I’ll probably make a par version.

I hope to get a folder up later today.

Dan