Topics

ACT Classes, ideas welcome


Dan Margulis
 

I’ve been running Applied Color Theory classes with what is now Ledet Graphics Training for 25 years now. The typical student has changed a lot in that time, and the images we work on change regularly. And more than ten years ago, we switched from three long days to four—there was that much new content.

In 2019 we scheduled a class but I had to cancel a couple of months in advance when I decided to get myself a new pair of knees. That took care of the rest of the year as well.

With the Chevreul book finished Sterling and I are thinking about reviving the class, considering that there may now be more interest. But that comes with a price. In the past, all students were either professional retouchers or people who wanted to be just as good as professionals. They weren’t always Photoshop experts but then again most of color correction doesn’t require a whole lot of Photoshop expertise.

Now, however, there may be a different audience, one that wishes to talk more about color and less about technique. They may not know much about computers at all.

And besides, things have changed a lot in terms of the type of images we face. So I’m trying to come up with a plan for offering one or more new classes, possibly targeting the Chevreul audience, probably in June in Atlanta. And I could use some advice.

I thought briefly about doing a five-day class where people could sign up for either the first or the second half or both but dismissed it as impractical. What would we do if we had to cancel one half for lack of attendance?

The obvious choice is to update the existing ACT curriculum.

We might also think about something along the lines of the advanced course, open to those who have taken ACT before, but presumably with completely new images and discussions.

There’s no shortage of interesting images: I’ve thought about basing a curriculum on the MIT study that I’ve been writing about off and on in my blog at moderncolorworkflow.com. The advantage of that is that we get to compare to a group of moderately talented retouchers who were paid to correct them, and we can even select topics: with 5,000 images to choose from we can specify architectural interiors or desert scenes or nightscapes or whatever we like.

Anyhow, I’d be happy for suggestions, or expressions of interest in attending something fairly new like this.

Dan Margulis


Thomas Hurd,MD
 

As I missed out on the class in San Diego I am definitely interested in another ACT class.
I’m free to travel but also live in the Atlanta area, so any thing done here is easy for me.
Now, to answer the real question:
Does all the material you have to offer constitute more than a single course of four days?
Putting it that way, of course you do.
Depending on how you want to parse out your time, the logical structure, based upon your message, is to offer 3 classes.
One, a less rigorous (Photoshop-wise) class on color theory, based along the lines of the new book.
Two, a more standard intro course for those who aspire in the more traditional way to be professional or highly skilled color correction amateur practitioners.
Three, the advanced course, which I would suppose you have been producing from time to time, but not as rigorously scheduled as the Ledet ACT course has been.
The other benefit of breaking it up, is you could possibly shorten the class back to three days but have a published pathway to getting to completion.
I don’t have any baseline for a comparison of the syllabus content, but I have read along on your adventures into the MIT image database. I’ve enjoyed learning through it. It’s also interesting to see that any workflow is never perfect for every situation. I love your commentary on your own work that starts with: “if only I had realized in advance...”
The advice you have given on starting over and make multiple stabs at correcting the image and blending them is helpful and is almost always a good approach.
My background is a professional physician and an amateur photographer who is practicing a life long learning path. I’ve gotten as deeply as I can stand into your written word and would love the chance to attend the standard ACT course, as well as the other two, if I were to be qualified for an advanced ACT class. My photography has a lot more to it than color, but nothing ever made as much of a leap in my work as learning to draw two steep a and b curves.



Tom

On Feb 16, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been running Applied Color Theory classes with what is now Ledet Graphics Training for 25 years now. The typical student has changed a lot in that time, and the images we work on change regularly. And more than ten years ago, we switched from three long days to four—there was that much new content.

In 2019 we scheduled a class but I had to cancel a couple of months in advance when I decided to get myself a new pair of knees. That took care of the rest of the year as well.

With the Chevreul book finished Sterling and I are thinking about reviving the class, considering that there may now be more interest. But that comes with a price. In the past, all students were either professional retouchers or people who wanted to be just as good as professionals. They weren’t always Photoshop experts but then again most of color correction doesn’t require a whole lot of Photoshop expertise.

Now, however, there may be a different audience, one that wishes to talk more about color and less about technique. They may not know much about computers at all.

And besides, things have changed a lot in terms of the type of images we face. So I’m trying to come up with a plan for offering one or more new classes, possibly targeting the Chevreul audience, probably in June in Atlanta. And I could use some advice.

I thought briefly about doing a five-day class where people could sign up for either the first or the second half or both but dismissed it as impractical. What would we do if we had to cancel one half for lack of attendance?

The obvious choice is to update the existing ACT curriculum.

We might also think about something along the lines of the advanced course, open to those who have taken ACT before, but presumably with completely new images and discussions.

There’s no shortage of interesting images: I’ve thought about basing a curriculum on the MIT study that I’ve been writing about off and on in my blog at moderncolorworkflow.com. The advantage of that is that we get to compare to a group of moderately talented retouchers who were paid to correct them, and we can even select topics: with 5,000 images to choose from we can specify architectural interiors or desert scenes or nightscapes or whatever we like.

Anyhow, I’d be happy for suggestions, or expressions of interest in attending something fairly new like this.

Dan Margulis





Dean Wilmot
 

Ha Dan

Any idea when the second release to purchase your book will be open?

Regards

Dean Wilmot
0416 264 230

On 17 Feb 2020, at 08:26, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been running Applied Color Theory classes with what is now Ledet Graphics Training for 25 years now. The typical student has changed a lot in that time, and the images we work on change regularly. And more than ten years ago, we switched from three long days to four—there was that much new content.

In 2019 we scheduled a class but I had to cancel a couple of months in advance when I decided to get myself a new pair of knees. That took care of the rest of the year as well.

With the Chevreul book finished Sterling and I are thinking about reviving the class, considering that there may now be more interest. But that comes with a price. In the past, all students were either professional retouchers or people who wanted to be just as good as professionals. They weren’t always Photoshop experts but then again most of color correction doesn’t require a whole lot of Photoshop expertise.

Now, however, there may be a different audience, one that wishes to talk more about color and less about technique. They may not know much about computers at all.

And besides, things have changed a lot in terms of the type of images we face. So I’m trying to come up with a plan for offering one or more new classes, possibly targeting the Chevreul audience, probably in June in Atlanta. And I could use some advice.

I thought briefly about doing a five-day class where people could sign up for either the first or the second half or both but dismissed it as impractical. What would we do if we had to cancel one half for lack of attendance?

The obvious choice is to update the existing ACT curriculum.

We might also think about something along the lines of the advanced course, open to those who have taken ACT before, but presumably with completely new images and discussions.

There’s no shortage of interesting images: I’ve thought about basing a curriculum on the MIT study that I’ve been writing about off and on in my blog at moderncolorworkflow.com. The advantage of that is that we get to compare to a group of moderately talented retouchers who were paid to correct them, and we can even select topics: with 5,000 images to choose from we can specify architectural interiors or desert scenes or nightscapes or whatever we like.

Anyhow, I’d be happy for suggestions, or expressions of interest in attending something fairly new like this.

Dan Margulis





Dean Wilmot
 

Hi Dan

Any idea when the second release to purchase your book will be open?

Regards

Dean Wilmot
0416 264 230

On 17 Feb 2020, at 10:09, Dean Wilmot via Groups.Io <deanwilmot=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Ha Dan

Any idea when the second release to purchase your book will be open?

Regards

Dean Wilmot
0416 264 230

On 17 Feb 2020, at 08:26, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been running Applied Color Theory classes with what is now Ledet Graphics Training for 25 years now. The typical student has changed a lot in that time, and the images we work on change regularly. And more than ten years ago, we switched from three long days to four—there was that much new content.

In 2019 we scheduled a class but I had to cancel a couple of months in advance when I decided to get myself a new pair of knees. That took care of the rest of the year as well.

With the Chevreul book finished Sterling and I are thinking about reviving the class, considering that there may now be more interest. But that comes with a price. In the past, all students were either professional retouchers or people who wanted to be just as good as professionals. They weren’t always Photoshop experts but then again most of color correction doesn’t require a whole lot of Photoshop expertise.

Now, however, there may be a different audience, one that wishes to talk more about color and less about technique. They may not know much about computers at all.

And besides, things have changed a lot in terms of the type of images we face. So I’m trying to come up with a plan for offering one or more new classes, possibly targeting the Chevreul audience, probably in June in Atlanta. And I could use some advice.

I thought briefly about doing a five-day class where people could sign up for either the first or the second half or both but dismissed it as impractical. What would we do if we had to cancel one half for lack of attendance?

The obvious choice is to update the existing ACT curriculum.

We might also think about something along the lines of the advanced course, open to those who have taken ACT before, but presumably with completely new images and discussions.

There’s no shortage of interesting images: I’ve thought about basing a curriculum on the MIT study that I’ve been writing about off and on in my blog at moderncolorworkflow.com. The advantage of that is that we get to compare to a group of moderately talented retouchers who were paid to correct them, and we can even select topics: with 5,000 images to choose from we can specify architectural interiors or desert scenes or nightscapes or whatever we like.

Anyhow, I’d be happy for suggestions, or expressions of interest in attending something fairly new like this.

Dan Margulis






John M. Henry
 

Dan could you not do a this as a only course also? I know I can work along
with the books and dvd but the live interaction would be better.


John M. Henry

Speedway Press . Mitchell Printing & Mailing Inc. .The Phoenix Press
1 Burkle Street
Oswego NY 13126
315-343-3531


Thomas Hurd,MD
 

How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!

Tom Hurd

On Feb 16, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been running Applied Color Theory classes with what is now Ledet Graphics Training for 25 years now. The typical student has changed a lot in that time, and the images we work on change regularly. And more than ten years ago, we switched from three long days to four—there was that much new content.

In 2019 we scheduled a class but I had to cancel a couple of months in advance when I decided to get myself a new pair of knees. That took care of the rest of the year as well.

With the Chevreul book finished Sterling and I are thinking about reviving the class, considering that there may now be more interest. But that comes with a price. In the past, all students were either professional retouchers or people who wanted to be just as good as professionals. They weren’t always Photoshop experts but then again most of color correction doesn’t require a whole lot of Photoshop expertise.

Now, however, there may be a different audience, one that wishes to talk more about color and less about technique. They may not know much about computers at all.

And besides, things have changed a lot in terms of the type of images we face. So I’m trying to come up with a plan for offering one or more new classes, possibly targeting the Chevreul audience, probably in June in Atlanta. And I could use some advice.

I thought briefly about doing a five-day class where people could sign up for either the first or the second half or both but dismissed it as impractical. What would we do if we had to cancel one half for lack of attendance?

The obvious choice is to update the existing ACT curriculum.

We might also think about something along the lines of the advanced course, open to those who have taken ACT before, but presumably with completely new images and discussions.

There’s no shortage of interesting images: I’ve thought about basing a curriculum on the MIT study that I’ve been writing about off and on in my blog at moderncolorworkflow.com. The advantage of that is that we get to compare to a group of moderately talented retouchers who were paid to correct them, and we can even select topics: with 5,000 images to choose from we can specify architectural interiors or desert scenes or nightscapes or whatever we like.

Anyhow, I’d be happy for suggestions, or expressions of interest in attending something fairly new like this.

Dan Margulis





Gerald Bakker
 

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 06:03 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD wrote:
How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!
Well, it could certainly draw me, even more so if Dan would visit Amsterdam as well. What about the Van Gogh museum? - after all, one of the painters who plays a prominent role in the new book!
On a more serious note, I find it doubtful if the "Chevreul audience" (whatever that is) would be inclined to go to an "Apple and Adobe training center" (i.e. Ledet) for a course. We here in the group understand the connection between Chevreul and Photoshop, but in the "outside world" this may not be the case. "Chevreul" is an interesting study for artists, historians, etc. but why would they go to a color correction course?

The current content of the ACT class - https://www.ledet.com/margulis/ - looks like a lot to learn (and enjoy) for anyone interested in the subject. So why the decreasing interest? That's a question you need to answer first, to understand what a more favorable offer could be. Maybe the subject "color correction" is too wide and vague to lure potential students. The current versions of Lightroom and other tools are so effective and simple to use that most retouchers may not realize they can do a lot better. A suggestion could be to search for a more specific subject and make that the focus of a course. "Color" could be a candidate, encompassing both the perception side and the digital side. Or dedicate a full class on the Picture Postcard Workflow only: I believe the PPW provides enough material to keep teacher and students busy for at least 3 days. Whether it's commercially viable, I don't know.

I don't think the choice of images matters much. A comparison with the MIT retouchers is IMHO of limited interest, because we don't know the motivations that led to their corrections. A comparison gets interesting and can trigger a valuable discussion when other contestants (fellow students) are present and can explain their choices.
--
Gerald Bakker
http://geraldbakker.nl


Dan Derousie
 

I for one would be interested in a course on the PPW workflow itself, as Gerald suggests.

 

Dan Derousie

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Bakker
Sent: February 18, 2020 3:11 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] ACT Classes, ideas welcome

 

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 06:03 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD wrote:

How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!

Well, it could certainly draw me, even more so if Dan would visit Amsterdam as well. What about the Van Gogh museum? - after all, one of the painters who plays a prominent role in the new book!
On a more serious note, I find it doubtful if the "Chevreul audience" (whatever that is) would be inclined to go to an "Apple and Adobe training center" (i.e. Ledet) for a course. We here in the group understand the connection between Chevreul and Photoshop, but in the "outside world" this may not be the case. "Chevreul" is an interesting study for artists, historians, etc. but why would they go to a color correction course?

The current content of the ACT class - https://www.ledet.com/margulis/ - looks like a lot to learn (and enjoy) for anyone interested in the subject. So why the decreasing interest? That's a question you need to answer first, to understand what a more favorable offer could be. Maybe the subject "color correction" is too wide and vague to lure potential students. The current versions of Lightroom and other tools are so effective and simple to use that most retouchers may not realize they can do a lot better. A suggestion could be to search for a more specific subject and make that the focus of a course. "Color" could be a candidate, encompassing both the perception side and the digital side. Or dedicate a full class on the Picture Postcard Workflow only: I believe the PPW provides enough material to keep teacher and students busy for at least 3 days. Whether it's commercially viable, I don't know.

I don't think the choice of images matters much. A comparison with the MIT retouchers is IMHO of limited interest, because we don't know the motivations that led to their corrections. A comparison gets interesting and can trigger a valuable discussion when other contestants (fellow students) are present and can explain their choices.
--
Gerald Bakker
http://geraldbakker.nl


--
Dan Derousie


Alec Dann
 

You might also consider doing the PPW class using an online streaming platform like Teachable.  That would allow people to get up to speed before taking the actual class or to combine with a shorter in-person class.


jorgeparraphotography
 

As I see it, ( just one more point of view I guess), a Workshop about Chevreul, COlor theory and the applications and implications in so many fields would certainly bring many people from different areas of the visual arts and markets.

I have quite a few students of Art Direction at the Miami Ad School, and I am teaching advanced photography and Lighting classes, and those AD's are all interested in knowing more about Dan's book ( waiting for Amazon) and get deeper into Color knowledge. Same for my cinematographers and video friends who are trying to read to old PDF translation (kindly provided by Dan) for the curious, and now wait for the book to be available.

It follows that a single workshop dedicated only to Color, where advanced Photoshop skills are not a requisite, might be a hit and then, for those Photoshop self-appointed "experts", there would be the chance to register and get into the Pshop Workflow in detail, with the full advanced training that has already happened. 

I got Dan's Photoshop book to actually catch up with all the technical details regarding the PPW workflow, etc since I entered very late in those discussions. I lost contact with Yahoo groups -long ago- for too many months, and got back in very late in the workflow discussions, so I am still catching up in that area, but I feel I (and everyone) would largely benefit  from the Chevreul/Dan's color training by itself.

In short, I don't see any specific need to see them glued together for training purposes. Amazon's book presentation clearly states you do not need any expertise in digital processing to understand the whole thing, and this could be precisely the hook to bring many people from different areas of the visual arts. 

My 2 cents here.

Jorge


Dan Margulis
 


On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:

How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!

A tempting thought that I take as facetious, but I will avail myself of the opportunity to offer some free travel advice.

Teaching in Europe, and I’ve done it a lot, has been a great experience. But I would never do an itinerary like this one because it caters to the worst practice of non-European tourists: trying to see everything in one trip. Now granted that most people make only one or two trans-oceanic trips, if that many, they are greatly inclined to pack all the “must sees” sites into one visit. The result is that instead of seeing “everything” they see almost nothing except the inside of trains, and hordes of tour groups packing into the aforementioned must-see sites.

The Louvre, the Uffizi (Florence, please, not Venice), and the Vatican Museum house some of the world’s greatest collections of art; maybe only the Met in New York, the Prado in Madrid, and the Hermitage in St. Petersburg could be mentioned in the same sentence. However, I can no longer recommend them to friends who don’t have an absolute need to see certain pieces in person. The mobs are just unmanageable. 

Venice itself? As that eminent color theorist, Yogi Berra, once said: “Nobody goes there any more. It’s too crowded.” I first started visiting it in the 1970s. It was then a vibrant city, rich in history. Now most of the locals have moved out, and it’s one big tourist trap, packed like sardines when a cruise ship comes in. I don’t recommend it to friends any more, except possibly in February when the weather is bad enough to keep the crowds down.

Italy itself has an infinite number of first-rate attractions. Florence has scads of smaller museums with astounding painting, sculpture, and architecture. it would take weeks to explore them all without ever setting foot in the Uffizi. I would be less inclined to skip the Vatican, but if I did Rome has enough history to keep one busy for months.

Now that I’ve trashed the museums, let me put in a good word for the guides. Italy has a strict licensing system for tourist guides and my experience is that they all know what they’re talking about, not to mention eager to exchange views with clients who they think know what they’re talking about. They can give the nitty-gritty about each piece of art much better than I could. I can no doubt give a better explanation of where the art fits into a broader cultural experience. Probably, though, my best attribute as a guide in one of these clogged edifices is, that as a lifelong patron of NYC subways, I am highly skillful with judicious use of the elbows.

Dan Margulis


bill bane
 

Hear, hear to your remarks, Dan. My wife and I spent 7 years (10 months/year) on a 46’ trawler covering the Med, with us getting “stuck” to Italy if we got close. As a result, we saw lots, and loved all. The not-noted places in Italy are many and wonderful. I tell everyone to arrive, get hotel for first 2 nights, then rental, then at 5-6 in evening, look up hotels in whichever town you are in, ask to see available rooms that are inexpensive. You have no idea how much money you save. And you see everything. We found Italians to be the most nice, interesting, helpful people ever, without exception.

 

This trip led me to eventually finding Mr. Margolis. I came back with ~40,000 bad photos from various bad early generation digital cameras. They sit today awaiting my attention. I am finally beginning to believe that I am close to “ready.” It has taken me 3 repetitive readings (over 5 years) of both of Dan’s books, and that aged me considerably. Since I was born with all of my taste in my mouth (trained as an engineer), I am hoping that the new book might leaven my prospective photo cooking.

 

As a representative of a possibly very small customer segment, I would never wish to comingle “learning” with tourism. I would love the idea of Dan providing x students with the same image and saying get at it, with comparisons and discussions to follow. My impression is this is close to the past methodology. If there was such a course in Atlanta (I live in New Orleans), I would do everything I could to attend.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io [mailto:colortheory@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Margulis via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:23 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] ACT Classes, ideas welcome

 

 

On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:



How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!

 

A tempting thought that I take as facetious, but I will avail myself of the opportunity to offer some free travel advice.

 

Teaching in Europe, and I’ve done it a lot, has been a great experience. But I would never do an itinerary like this one because it caters to the worst practice of non-European tourists: trying to see everything in one trip. Now granted that most people make only one or two trans-oceanic trips, if that many, they are greatly inclined to pack all the “must sees” sites into one visit. The result is that instead of seeing “everything” they see almost nothing except the inside of trains, and hordes of tour groups packing into the aforementioned must-see sites.

 

The Louvre, the Uffizi (Florence, please, not Venice), and the Vatican Museum house some of the world’s greatest collections of art; maybe only the Met in New York, the Prado in Madrid, and the Hermitage in St. Petersburg could be mentioned in the same sentence. However, I can no longer recommend them to friends who don’t have an absolute need to see certain pieces in person. The mobs are just unmanageable. 

 

Venice itself? As that eminent color theorist, Yogi Berra, once said: “Nobody goes there any more. It’s too crowded.” I first started visiting it in the 1970s. It was then a vibrant city, rich in history. Now most of the locals have moved out, and it’s one big tourist trap, packed like sardines when a cruise ship comes in. I don’t recommend it to friends any more, except possibly in February when the weather is bad enough to keep the crowds down.

 

Italy itself has an infinite number of first-rate attractions. Florence has scads of smaller museums with astounding painting, sculpture, and architecture. it would take weeks to explore them all without ever setting foot in the Uffizi. I would be less inclined to skip the Vatican, but if I did Rome has enough history to keep one busy for months.

 

Now that I’ve trashed the museums, let me put in a good word for the guides. Italy has a strict licensing system for tourist guides and my experience is that they all know what they’re talking about, not to mention eager to exchange views with clients who they think know what they’re talking about. They can give the nitty-gritty about each piece of art much better than I could. I can no doubt give a better explanation of where the art fits into a broader cultural experience. Probably, though, my best attribute as a guide in one of these clogged edifices is, that as a lifelong patron of NYC subways, I am highly skillful with judicious use of the elbows.

 

Dan Margulis


Thomas Hurd,MD
 

Never discount elbows!

I agree with your assessment of European “package” tours.

I was trapped inside of one in Italy last year, because my wife scheduled it through her mother’s favorite travel agency. My mother-in-law is a wonderful woman, but our travel tastes are quite a bit different. 

I had been to Italy 20 years previously and went on my own all Michelangelo tour, with only Rome and Florence stops. The trip was made all the more special because my neighbor’s nephew was assigned to the Vatican and was able to spend a few hours during our week to show us some local flavor. 

The only thing I can recommend with delight in the 2019 “package” tour was I discovered private tours and night time hours in the Vatican.

I wasn’t being facetious however. That itinerary just happens to be my plan for  a 2020 tour. As my dominant focus is art admiration, I plan to visit in depth those same museums. 

The Louvre is my wife’s favorite, all  of Italy is mine. But I do love the access at the Musee d’orsay where you stick your nose and camera lens up to an inch from the canvas. I could be easily persuaded to add Amsterdam.

Let us all know if you do plan to teach in Europe (well, for me, in English. I’m no polyglot, except for a few Latin leftovers from 3 years in high school and anatomy classes). 

Even so, a color course in Atlanta is something that I would alter my itinerary to include before I go.

One thing I have wondered is how did Buonarroti make the curved ceiling look flat and yet three dimensional at once? When I look at those prophets and Sybils with there limbs seeming to extend in space, I feel it must have been the way he used his incredibly intense colors manipulate my retina and visual cortex! As I look today on my illustrated books following the restoration the photos hint but don’t give the full glory. The new OLSCC book mentions Michelangelo twice but different works; I’m sure it will be a pleasure to figure it out if the answers are in there. I notice he did use a lot of warmer orange tones contrasted to blue, cyan and greens. Not unlike popular film grading today. 

And as a one off the ceiling panel of Isaiah is a classic study of the a and b channel opposites!

Tom Hurd

On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:22 PM, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis@...> wrote:


On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:

How about a two week course in Paris, Venice and Rome?
You could have classes at the beginning and end and have on site demonstrations in the Louvre and Musee d’orsay in Paris.
The Uffizi in Venice.
Vatican Museum in Rome.
It would certainly lend itself wonderfully for the Chevreul aficionados. You could put an ACT course in there too somewhere I’m sure. So the participant’s European vacation pictures would get plenty of color correction.
The lure of a European vacation will get spouses along to help pay for the overhead of the course(s).
And it would draw fans from the Old World of course!

A tempting thought that I take as facetious, but I will avail myself of the opportunity to offer some free travel advice.

Teaching in Europe, and I’ve done it a lot, has been a great experience. But I would never do an itinerary like this one because it caters to the worst practice of non-European tourists: trying to see everything in one trip. Now granted that most people make only one or two trans-oceanic trips, if that many, they are greatly inclined to pack all the “must sees” sites into one visit. The result is that instead of seeing “everything” they see almost nothing except the inside of trains, and hordes of tour groups packing into the aforementioned must-see sites.

The Louvre, the Uffizi (Florence, please, not Venice), and the Vatican Museum house some of the world’s greatest collections of art; maybe only the Met in New York, the Prado in Madrid, and the Hermitage in St. Petersburg could be mentioned in the same sentence. However, I can no longer recommend them to friends who don’t have an absolute need to see certain pieces in person. The mobs are just unmanageable. 

Venice itself? As that eminent color theorist, Yogi Berra, once said: “Nobody goes there any more. It’s too crowded.” I first started visiting it in the 1970s. It was then a vibrant city, rich in history. Now most of the locals have moved out, and it’s one big tourist trap, packed like sardines when a cruise ship comes in. I don’t recommend it to friends any more, except possibly in February when the weather is bad enough to keep the crowds down.

Italy itself has an infinite number of first-rate attractions. Florence has scads of smaller museums with astounding painting, sculpture, and architecture. it would take weeks to explore them all without ever setting foot in the Uffizi. I would be less inclined to skip the Vatican, but if I did Rome has enough history to keep one busy for months.

Now that I’ve trashed the museums, let me put in a good word for the guides. Italy has a strict licensing system for tourist guides and my experience is that they all know what they’re talking about, not to mention eager to exchange views with clients who they think know what they’re talking about. They can give the nitty-gritty about each piece of art much better than I could. I can no doubt give a better explanation of where the art fits into a broader cultural experience. Probably, though, my best attribute as a guide in one of these clogged edifices is, that as a lifelong patron of NYC subways, I am highly skillful with judicious use of the elbows.

Dan Margulis


Dan Margulis
 


On Feb 20, 2020, at 9:36 AM, jorgeparraphotography <jorgeparraphotography@...> wrote:

As I see it, ( just one more point of view I guess), a Workshop about Chevreul, COlor theory and the applications and implications in so many fields would certainly bring many people from different areas of the visual arts and markets.

I have quite a few students of Art Direction at the Miami Ad School, and I am teaching advanced photography and Lighting classes, and those AD's are all interested in knowing more about Dan's book ( waiting for Amazon) and get deeper into Color knowledge. Same for my cinematographers and video friends who are trying to read to old PDF translation (kindly provided by Dan) for the curious, and now wait for the book to be available.

It follows that a single workshop dedicated only to Color, where advanced Photoshop skills are not a requisite, might be a hit and then, for those Photoshop self-appointed "experts", there would be the chance to register and get into the Pshop Workflow in detail, with the full advanced training that has already happened. 

Jorge,

Thanks a lot, this has suddenly clarified an obvious point for me. For a retouching class we have an absolute limit of eight people. The reason: people at that level are very confident of their own skills and somewhat resistant to adopting new methods—until they see firsthand that their own work doesn’t really stack up against the competition. And it’s important to get feedback from other members of the small group. Some things are matters of taste and appeal to certain people and not others. So if the group splits on whether a certain correction is good, that’s fine. But if the whole group says it’s bad, why, then it is. Plus, in a small group I can grab a student’s final effort and show how certain small steps would make it better.

In a discussion of color theory there’s no compelling reason to have a small group. It’s true that I’d still be doing demonstrations, but they wouldn’t need the personal touch. For example, Chevreul advises that certain colors of clothing are flattering to certain skintones under certain conditions. And he blandly tells painters, if the subject has chosen the wrong color dress or whatever, then change it! That can be illustrated in a lot of ways (I think by altering some of the Impressionist work is best) but the point is for the student to keep the idea in mind for future reference.

So more and more I’m coming to the conclusion that a real color usage class shouldn’t try to intersect with a hard-nosed color correction one.

Dan Margulis


Dan Margulis
 


On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:12 PM, bill bane <bill.bane@...> wrote:

As a representative of a possibly very small customer segment, I would never wish to comingle “learning” with tourism. I would love the idea of Dan providing x students with the same image and saying get at it, with comparisons and discussions to follow. My impression is this is close to the past methodology.

That is indeed the methodology. Italian students call the “comparison and discussion” phase il bagno di sangue—the bloodbath.


bill bane
 

Dan,

 

I have participated in and benefited from such “comparisons and discussions.” In my terminology: “disillusionment is always progress.”

 

Bill

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io [mailto:colortheory@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Margulis via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:52 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] ACT Classes, ideas welcome

 

 

On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:12 PM, bill bane <bill.bane@...> wrote:



As a representative of a possibly very small customer segment, I would never wish to comingle “learning” with tourism. I would love the idea of Dan providing x students with the same image and saying get at it, with comparisons and discussions to follow. My impression is this is close to the past methodology.

 

That is indeed the methodology. Italian students call the “comparison and discussion” phase il bagno di sangue—the bloodbath.


StoryinPictures
 


Perhaps putting the classes back to back has an advantage: up to eight of those who want to take both only need to arrange one round-trip ticket and one period of time off. 

If demand for both is high enough, there could be a retouching class before the color class and another after, which would accommodate up to 16 students taking both. 

Derick Miller

On Feb 20, 2020, at 19:41, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis@...> wrote:


On Feb 20, 2020, at 9:36 AM, jorgeparraphotography <jorgeparraphotography@...> wrote:

As I see it, ( just one more point of view I guess), a Workshop about Chevreul, COlor theory and the applications and implications in so many fields would certainly bring many people from different areas of the visual arts and markets.

I have quite a few students of Art Direction at the Miami Ad School, and I am teaching advanced photography and Lighting classes, and those AD's are all interested in knowing more about Dan's book ( waiting for Amazon) and get deeper into Color knowledge. Same for my cinematographers and video friends who are trying to read to old PDF translation (kindly provided by Dan) for the curious, and now wait for the book to be available.

It follows that a single workshop dedicated only to Color, where advanced Photoshop skills are not a requisite, might be a hit and then, for those Photoshop self-appointed "experts", there would be the chance to register and get into the Pshop Workflow in detail, with the full advanced training that has already happened. 

Jorge,

Thanks a lot, this has suddenly clarified an obvious point for me. For a retouching class we have an absolute limit of eight people. The reason: people at that level are very confident of their own skills and somewhat resistant to adopting new methods—until they see firsthand that their own work doesn’t really stack up against the competition. And it’s important to get feedback from other members of the small group. Some things are matters of taste and appeal to certain people and not others. So if the group splits on whether a certain correction is good, that’s fine. But if the whole group says it’s bad, why, then it is. Plus, in a small group I can grab a student’s final effort and show how certain small steps would make it better.

In a discussion of color theory there’s no compelling reason to have a small group. It’s true that I’d still be doing demonstrations, but they wouldn’t need the personal touch. For example, Chevreul advises that certain colors of clothing are flattering to certain skintones under certain conditions. And he blandly tells painters, if the subject has chosen the wrong color dress or whatever, then change it! That can be illustrated in a lot of ways (I think by altering some of the Impressionist work is best) but the point is for the student to keep the idea in mind for future reference.

So more and more I’m coming to the conclusion that a real color usage class shouldn’t try to intersect with a hard-nosed color correction one.

Dan Margulis


Dan Margulis
 


On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:

One thing I have wondered is how did Buonarroti make the curved ceiling look flat and yet three dimensional at once? When I look at those prophets and Sybils with there limbs seeming to extend in space, I feel it must have been the way he used his incredibly intense colors manipulate my retina and visual cortex!

Deconstructing Impressionist paintings (and thereby enabling us to imitate their techniques) is feasible, as I hope the book shows. Deconstructing Michelangelo is like deconstructing Mozart: the form seems so simple and yet we can’t fathom how it came out so perfect. His control of dimension and perspective has not been surpassed. When he started work on the David, everyone told him that the idea was great but that the execution would be impossible because the marble he was working with was too narrow front to back. How exactly he did this things I don’t know.

As I look today on my illustrated books following the restoration the photos hint but don’t give the full glory.

They can’t. The scale is too massive, certain colors are too intense to print, and a book lacks the smells and sounds of a large religious space. Very comparable to the situation I describe in Chapter 16, which is trying to show a photo of Niagara Falls. There are just too many sensory factors that a camera can’t capture, so we have to compensate in different ways.

The new OLSCC book mentions Michelangelo twice but different works; I’m sure it will be a pleasure to figure it out if the answers are in there. I notice he did use a lot of warmer orange tones contrasted to blue, cyan and greens. Not unlike popular film grading today. 

Well, the Last Judgment was Chevreul’s choice and I explained why it wouldn’t have been mine. So I was stuck with showing it. My choice, the Doni Tondo, was not so much about the painting as that Michelangelo disregarded Chevreul’s advice about what kind of frame to put on it, and the Uffizi disregarded Chevreul’s advice as to the proper color of walls in a museum, yet both decisions were eminently correct.

And as a one off the ceiling panel of Isaiah is a classic study of the a and b channel opposites!

It looks that way at first glance but the truth is more subtle, for which reason this fresco almost made it into this book and will definitely make it if I ever do a third edition of LAB. The prophet is portrayed wearing striking warm robes. And for each warm color, Michelangelo found an excuse to show its complementary nearby, just as Chevreul or a retoucher familiar with LAB might have suggested.

But Michelangelo resisted the obvious, which is to make these complementary accents bright themselves. He reasoned that a duller green would do just as well next to reds and oranges than a more saturated one would, without calling as much attention to itself.

This can be used to eliminate any doubt about how much clothing color can affect a portrait, and also about the power of reds. The demonstration would be: convert file to LAB, add duplicate layer, invert it, change it to Color mode, and then exclude all the skintones so that they don’t turn green.

Result: instead of bright reds and oranges set off by duller blues and greens, the robes are now bright greens and blues set off by duller reds and oranges. Just as colorful, just as many uses of complementaries, no change in the subject’s skin—but the portrait is now a train wreck.

Dan Margulis


Dan Margulis
 


On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:

Even so, a color course in Atlanta is something that I would alter my itinerary to include before I go.

OK. It sounds from the traffic on this list and a couple of messages I have gotten off-line that we have enough people to run a four-day ACT class in Atlanta. The format in principle would be the same as always, as described at

As always, it would change to reflect advances in knowledge. The first two days traditionally are mine, using simple images chosen by me that test standard retouching abilities. The last two days belong to the group; we choose the images and the lecture topics together. So, if people want to talk about art, we can do that.

Sterling and I have discussed the schedule and it’s all pretty flexible. We suggested either the week of Monday June 8 or that of Monday June 15. Historically, we have always run these classes from Wednesday to Saturday, because some people want to miss as few days of work as possible. But Tuesday-Friday is doable. Monday-Thursday is not because I would need the Monday to set up.

The hours for this class are quite brutal, especially on the second and third days. Count on about 40 hours in the classroom.

The location is a northeastern suburb of Atlanta with inexpensive lodging.

If people are interested in doing this, let’s hear some date preferences.

Dan Margulis


Dean Wilmot
 

Hi Dan,

As I’m located in Australia and impossible for me to currently attend the ACT Class, have you ever considered recording the Classes and offering them online to purchase?

Thanks 

Kind regards 

Dean Wilmot


On 23 Feb 2020, at 07:12, Dan Margulis via Groups.Io <dmargulis@...> wrote:


On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Hurd,MD via Groups.Io <tomhurd@...> wrote:

Even so, a color course in Atlanta is something that I would alter my itinerary to include before I go.

OK. It sounds from the traffic on this list and a couple of messages I have gotten off-line that we have enough people to run a four-day ACT class in Atlanta. The format in principle would be the same as always, as described at

As always, it would change to reflect advances in knowledge. The first two days traditionally are mine, using simple images chosen by me that test standard retouching abilities. The last two days belong to the group; we choose the images and the lecture topics together. So, if people want to talk about art, we can do that.

Sterling and I have discussed the schedule and it’s all pretty flexible. We suggested either the week of Monday June 8 or that of Monday June 15. Historically, we have always run these classes from Wednesday to Saturday, because some people want to miss as few days of work as possible. But Tuesday-Friday is doable. Monday-Thursday is not because I would need the Monday to set up.

The hours for this class are quite brutal, especially on the second and third days. Count on about 40 hours in the classroom.

The location is a northeastern suburb of Atlanta with inexpensive lodging.

If people are interested in doing this, let’s hear some date preferences.

Dan Margulis