Topics

A unique color-testing opportunity


Dan Margulis
 



On Nov 11, 2020, at 7:27 PM, Robert S Baldassano <robsbphotog@...> wrote:

Dan I have my cataract surgery done about 4 years ago by the surgeon who invented the minimalist method of doing the surgery where they insert the lens folded so a smaller incision is used. If I recall correctly, I did each eye a day apart. He also did an astigmatism  correction in the process. Since I used standard lenses, I had to choose if I wanted near or far vision without glasses. I chose far and had perfect distance vision, but needed a very small correction for close up work. So over 4 years, I have only had a very small correction to my near vision and an infinitesimal correction for astigmatism in my left eye. That required a minimal correction for my glasses. I still can drive legally without glasses. After surgery, the main difference I noticed were 2 things. First everything was much brighter, often requiring sunglasses out doors. The second thing I noticed was all colors were much more vivid. I did not notice any color shifts if there were any, only an increase in saturation.  

Well, there ought to be a hue change because the cataract is yellow. But it would only be detectable if the two eyes were basically in good shape except for the cataract. In that case, rapidly opening one eye and closing the other makes the hue shift evident.

My new eye tested out as nearly perfect in the doctor’s office Monday, so I am going ahead with my testing, as follows.

I have taken the freebie version of the Farnsworth-Munsell Hue test, which you can try for yourself at,

It’s a simpler version of the 100-peg test that one takes in a light booth, involving arranging colored squares of very similar hues in the correct order between two known endpoints. Using only the old eye to take this test, I made three mistakes, getting confused in the gradation between orange and red and, in a validation of the opponent color theory, it its complementary, the gradation between blue and cyan. I also screwed up in the transition between yellow-green and lime-green, but not in its complementary, which would be magenta to violet.

Using only the new eye, I got a perfect score the next day. And just now, I got another perfect score with both eyes open, although I found the test more difficult. This suggests that one eye can compensate for another to some extent. We shall see.

I also have created a set of curves that alters an original so that when I see it through the good eye it resembles what I recall it looking like when viewed through the bad eye. What good this does is unknown since it would only be accurate for me personally.

For the main test I take advantage of the archives of the Applied Color Theory class. As those who have taken it will know, it consists of a series of image challenges similar to the case studies we’ve done here. All students submit a version, and we compare. But with a maximum of eight students in a class, it’s possible that nobody gets a really good result. I therefore always save the best results, so that when the next classes come along I can show them as “ringers”.

However, as new challenging images become available, I retire some of the older ones. But I keep the folders of the best versions—the equivalent of the versions chosen to make par in our case studies. I have more than 50 of these folders, most more than 10 years old so that I have no memory of what they contain. I limit my testing to folders with at least four versions, and separate them into three piles, one each for one eye, the other eye, and both eyes together.

Each time I look at a set, I make notes as I did during our case studies, and furthermore I try to rate the best, second best, and third best.

When I am finished with all those in a single series, let’s say the ones I evaluated with the old eye, I then split them in two and send half to the other eye and half to both eyes. And when those are finished they go to the third condition. So eventually I will have evaluated each set three times, and then will compare notes.

I went through a complete run of first passes before trying a second condition, thinking it will help me forget what I saw the first time. And I’m not comparing any notes until all three passes are finished. Still, with the few second passes I’ve completed, I think I recall having different preferences with different eyes.

I decided to use these older images specifically because they were unlikely to have used MMM, which I suspect would alter some preferences. So, if there’s time, I’m going to turn to our case studies and do the same thing with the images that I commented on back then.

Any other suggestions? We’re running out of time. Tomorrow I get to find out whether I’ve caught Covid in the two weeks since my last test.

Dan




Robert S Baldassano
 

Dan thanks for the link. I took the test and scored a 10.

Test Results


Michael Colby
 

ditto

 

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert S Baldassano
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 5:37 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A unique color-testing opportunity

 

Dan thanks for the link. I took the test and scored a 10.



Virus-free. www.avast.com


____________________________________________________________

Top News - Sponsored By Newser


Robert Wheeler
 
Edited

When Dan posted the link, I took the test and received a score of 4. That was a bit better than in earlier years, perhaps helped by now having a 4K hardware-calibrated Benq monitor, and also helped by knowing how to properly set up the Firefox browser to mange color correctly. It was challenging because my glasses are several years past due for updated lenses (delayed in part due to pandemic, other changing circumstances, and most recently by surgery for normal pressure glaucoma). I do have cataracts in both eyes, but not quite time for removal. Seems that any yellow filtering from the cataracts has not made color sorting impossible. All in all, reassuring to have a good score despite early cataracts in both eyes.

Stimulated by posting of scores, I took the test again, this time assisted by the magnifier built into Windows. With the magnifier, my new score is zero, somewhat to my surprise. Supposed to get new glasses by the first of next year, but meanwhile, I find that I use the magnifier (shortcut Windows key along with "+" key) many times per day, often with great benefit.


Kent Sutorius
 

I also scored a zero. I am 68.

A few years ago you could take the Farnsworth-Munsell 100 hue test online. One of the places you can take it now is the link below but you have to have software to run a .swf file.


Kent Sutorius




On 11/14/2020 8:13 AM, Robert Wheeler wrote:
When Dan posted the link, I took the test and received a score of 4. That was a bit higher than in earlier years, perhaps helped by now having a 4K hardware-calibrated Benq monitor, and also helped by knowing how to properly set up the Firefox browser to mange color correctly. It was challenging because my glasses are several years past due for updated lenses (delayed in part due to pandemic, other changing circumstances, and most recently by surgery for normal pressure glaucoma). I do have cataracts in both eyes, but not quite time for removal. Seems that any yellow filtering from the cataracts has not made color sorting impossible. All in all, reassuring to have a good score despite early cataracts in both eyes.

Stimulated by posting of scores, I took the test again, this time assisted by the magnifier built into Windows. With the magnifier, my new score is zero, somewhat to my surprise. Supposed to get new glasses by the first of next year, but meanwhile, I find that I use the magnifier (shortcut Windows key along with "+" key) many times per day, often with great benefit.



Michael Colby
 

Took it again.  This time zoomed in the web page.  Its easier to see the color differentiation between each cell when they’re displayed larger on the screen

 

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Colby
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:14 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A unique color-testing opportunity

 

ditto

 

 

 

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert S Baldassano
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 5:37 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A unique color-testing opportunity

 

Dan thanks for the link. I took the test and scored a 10.

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com



____________________________________________________________

Top News - Sponsored By Newser



____________________________________________________________

Top News - Sponsored By Newser


john c.
 

I’m 73 and I scored a 4 when using an inexpensive display in a home environment, but an easy 0 using my calibrated NEC display with neutral surroundings. It should be no surprise to this group that we’re measuring more than our eyes; the whole visual system is in play.
 
john castronovo


jorgeparraphotography
 

One thing I clearly remember is a discussion I had in a meeting with a Creative Director, Client, account executive, etc in regards to a specific color code for some images. The Client showed up in the meeting, carrying a plastic ball-pen which had a blue color and he wanted THAT BLUE as the background color for all images. There was very little time for retouching, so they were expecting me to generate that blue during the shoot and not waste time in color corrections before publishing.
 
Those days I was reading Josef Alber’s books ( The Interaction of Color) and other scientific and literary publications about color perception, especially since the use of some drugs like psilocybin and mescaline (see Aldous Huxley)  and others introduce temporary distortions in the perception of color in the same person, and it occurred to me at that moment that everyone in that meeting was agreeing verbally to that same blue color, BUT all of us may be basically seeing a similar blue, but NOT exactly the same blue!!  
 
So I decided to make a simple proposal: The Art Director and his eyes who were going to be with me at the photo-shoot was THE reference person and eyes as to confirm when had I matched the background color (with gels) exactly like the blue plastic ball pen that should be matched to perfection. As the decisive color was chosen by the agency, all images were approved immediately and my work was safe. 
 I clearly recall that if that task was left to me alone, I would have come with a darker tone and all the shoot would have failed. 
 
The tests you guys are doing at this point,  including before/after surgery, which go deeper into exploring this situation, seem to be implying the same trend: 
Any modification in the -already complex- perceptual systems generates a change in the way you are seeing and processing the same colors.  In addition to that, the many different levels of color blindness that is revealed in all tests seem to verify that we can agree only to some extent about what color are we all seeing, and it may certainly be a different one for each one, all the more so when pastel tones, violets, purples, pinks, blue-greens, and yellow-greens are involved. It will depend on how blind the individual is to some red and green tones, and then a big group of colors is compromised.
 
Technically, when you are color blind, that means that you do NOT have the receptors in the retina to capture those specific wavelengths corresponding to the missing colors, therefore, your eyes are merely capturing the remaining color elements that your eye can catch, hence the color confusion. You just can not see those shades and tones of some colors, your scanner simply does not capture them. You have a reduced color gamut!!
 
That is, IMHO, one of the reasons you send the same image to 8 retouchers and you will get 8 annoyingly different interpretations of the same file and most likely, you will not like any of them! 
 
Probably, that has also been happening to all of us with the Summer Test Files, at least to some extent. 
The creation of multiple versions to be layered up and mixed in varying levels of opacity until each individual finds HIS/HER BEST version will almost always be different to each user. Of course, we have density values in either LAB or RGB, or CMYK for comparison purposes, but if we leave it all to our subjective interpretation -our personal perception of color-  results may certainly be different.

--
Jorge Parra 
www.jJorgeParraPhotography.com
Miami


John Furnes
 

I have been a bit on-and-off lately, but now it seems like I can spend some time with colours again.

 

I took the X-Rite test, and scored 2 in the first attempt, then reduced indirect light onto the screen, and did 0-zero.

I am 67 years, use glasses (myopic) and have one of those “floating” nuisances in the right eye. Also, the right eye sees more yellow colours than the left.

Otherwise I am happy.

Also, I would donate some amount to keep the group going, once I find out how.

 

Regards

John Furnes

 

 


john c.
 

Revisiting this thread, I recently took the Farnsworth-Munsell 100 hue test using my best calibrated display and did fairly well, but then I realized that I was wearing my reading glasses that have a slight yellow coating on them to guard against u.v. exposure. I switched to a clear pair and did amazingly better, nearly a perfect score. I’m guessing that cataract surgery would produce a similar improvement. Even though our visual system adapts to a white balance with or without a filter, it’s not the same result. Looking through a filter exaggerates some hues and diminishes the brightness of others even though the same overall white balance is achieved.
 
John Castronovo
 

Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A unique color-testing opportunity
 

I have been a bit on-and-off lately, but now it seems like I can spend some time with colours again.

 

I took the X-Rite test, and scored 2 in the first attempt, then reduced indirect light onto the screen, and did 0-zero.

I am 67 years, use glasses (myopic) and have one of those “floating” nuisances in the right eye. Also, the right eye sees more yellow colours than the left.

Otherwise I am happy.

Also, I would donate some amount to keep the group going, once I find out how.

 

Regards

John Furnes

 

 


David
 

I had some troubles with the top line of colors, but after I decided that I was done, I scored a 0. I was surprised. I'm 70 and use reading glasses over contact lenses (the old hard, gas permeable type).

David Kessler


john c.
 

Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A unique color-testing opportunity
 
I had some troubles with the top line of colors, but after I decided that I was done, I scored a 0. I was surprised. I'm 70 and use reading glasses over contact lenses (the old hard, gas permeable type).

David Kessler