Date   

Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Dan Margulis
 



On Jan 13, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

My wife and I held a Halloween party for 38 consecutive years (1982-2019) and we've collected extensive documentation of it. For the first 20 or so, I was still using film. The photos from first three years (roughly 100 of them) are the worst. After that, I must have used a different photo processor -- those prints have held up a lot better, and I haven't had to resort to such measures to restore them. 

If those first hundred all have approximately the same defect (sounds like the magenta colorant didn’t hold up as well as the others) then the smart thing would be to find one of the images that happens to be easy to correct, and then apply the same correction to the others. That will at least get you close.

Look for a picture that has large dark objects that are known specifically to be *black*. Probably at the moment they’re greenish. Then on a curves adjustment layer, use the eyedropper tool to force them to become black. That should get the image a lot closer to where it should be. And that adjustment layer can be dragged onto any number of other similar images.

One of the many problems with this kind of work is that the deterioration isn’t uniform. Some of these hundred won’t really show the same defect as the others. Also, the defect can be worse in a certain range (say the highlights) or in a certain area (say the upper right of the print). In such cases there’s nothing to do but suck it up and correct manually.


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Doug Schafer
 

Also, you can try the Ps ai/neural tool/filter 'colorize' to auto color images....try converting to B&W and then adjust colors to match your "correct" lo-res sample.


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Jamieson
 

Hector knows what’s up!
–B

On Jan 12, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Hector Davila <amerphoto@...> wrote:

You would have to read ALL of
Dan Margulis books to win the contest.


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
 

Folks -- Just wanted to thank those who have responded to my inquiry. 

My wife and I held a Halloween party for 38 consecutive years (1982-2019) and we've collected extensive documentation of it. For the first 20 or so, I was still using film. The photos from first three years (roughly 100 of them) are the worst. After that, I must have used a different photo processor -- those prints have held up a lot better, and I haven't had to resort to such measures to restore them.

And yes, I am fortunate to have those previous images. With a lot of people in makeup (or other forms of gaudy disarray), I can't always count on "flesh tone" to gauge what the original may have looked like! And as you might imagine, I have a number of other photos in need of this kind of work but don't have any older scans to help me.  :-(

Anyway, I now have everything I need and also some good advice. I plan to tackle this sometime over the next month or so (i.e.: after I get done re-scanning the remaining 17 years). When that's done I intend to report back on my findings.

Thanks again,
Bruce


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Hector Davila
 

You are lucky to have
low-resolution scans of these same photos
with good color balance.

But imagine if you didn't.

Then you would have to
color correct without
knowing what the other
same photo with
good color balance
looks like.

It would make a good contest photo.

See who comes closer
to the original photo
good color balance
without looking at it.


You would have to read ALL of
Dan Margulis books to win the contest.




Hector Davila






On 1/12/2022 1:35 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Hi. New member, new topic, but perhaps familiar to many of you.

I have some old photos whose dyes have faded terribly...especially the blue. People's blue jeans look green. Using auto-levelling helps some, but you can't boost blue that just isn't there.

 

I also have some low-resolution scans of these same photos that were done many years ago. The image scale is bad, but the color balance is good.

 

What I'd like to do is somehow merge the hi-resolution scans I'm doing now with the colors from the older images. Any thoughts on how this could be done?

 

Thanks,

Bruce

_._,_._,_


 


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Doug Schafer
 

Others have good ideas and maybe combine those with:

Try up-sampling (like gigapixel ai or other program to increase resolution; including Ps) on the lo-res images to match the other image size/resolution and blend the color of up-scaled lo res with the luminosity of the larger/hi-res image.


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Jamieson
 

Photoshop. I think you could also do this with Affinity Photo. As long as whatever program has a layer blending mode called “Color” you should be good. Gimp, or maybe try out https://www.photopea.com.

Working in the Lab color space would let you do something very similar, which Photoshop and Affinity Photo are capable of, but you might have to do some further reading.

Good luck!
Bruce

On Jan 12, 2022, at 11:06 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 09:01 AM, Bruce Jamieson wrote:
A secret technique from one Bruce to another. Can the two images be reasonably aligned? Put the better-color-but-low-res image on top of the high-res-but-lousy scan, and set the blending mode to “Color.” Magic.
Thanks Bruce. I will need to know what software we are talking about.

Thanks,
Bruce (the other one)


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
 

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 09:01 AM, Bruce Jamieson wrote:
A secret technique from one Bruce to another. Can the two images be reasonably aligned? Put the better-color-but-low-res image on top of the high-res-but-lousy scan, and set the blending mode to “Color.” Magic.
Thanks Bruce. I will need to know what software we are talking about.

Thanks,
Bruce (the other one)


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
 

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 08:14 AM, Stephen Marsh wrote:
Of course, the L channel of Lab or the luminosity component of RGB will have an effect on the colour, so it is not always "that easy".
Agreed. My experience so far with freeware software suggests that it's not going to be a trivial exercise. I can enlarge the old scan to match the new one's image scale, but getting the two images completely in register will no doubt be part of the challenge.

Bruce


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Jamieson
 

A secret technique from one Bruce to another. Can the two images be reasonably aligned? Put the better-color-but-low-res image on top of the high-res-but-lousy scan, and set the blending mode to “Color.” Magic.

–Bruce

On Jan 12, 2022, at 4:35 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

Hi. New member, new topic, but perhaps familiar to many of you.

I have some old photos whose dyes have faded terribly...especially the blue. People's blue jeans look green. Using auto-levelling helps some, but you can't boost blue that just isn't there.

 

I also have some low-resolution scans of these same photos that were done many years ago. The image scale is bad, but the color balance is good.

 

What I'd like to do is somehow merge the hi-resolution scans I'm doing now with the colors from the older images. Any thoughts on how this could be done?

 

Thanks,

Bruce



Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Stephen Marsh
 

I don't have forum access anymore, so I'm not sure if this email reply will make it through or not...

Detail in the "a" and "b" channels of a Lab mode file is not so critical, so smaller images can be enlarged for their colour component and aligned to larger high resolution images. This does not have to be performed in Lab mode, it could also be done in RGB with "color" blend mode.

Of course, the L channel of Lab or the luminosity component of RGB will have an effect on the colour, so it is not always "that easy".


Regards,

Stephen Marsh


Re: Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Dan Derousie
 

A good alternative solution: try software called negative lab pro which does a good job in Lightroom. Quick, and you can adjust from there.

 

Dan Derousie

 

From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Bowman
Sent: January 12, 2022 4:35 AM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] Scanning old photos with faded dyes

 

Hi. New member, new topic, but perhaps familiar to many of you.

I have some old photos whose dyes have faded terribly...especially the blue. People's blue jeans look green. Using auto-levelling helps some, but you can't boost blue that just isn't there.

 

I also have some low-resolution scans of these same photos that were done many years ago. The image scale is bad, but the color balance is good.

 

What I'd like to do is somehow merge the hi-resolution scans I'm doing now with the colors from the older images. Any thoughts on how this could be done?

 

Thanks,

Bruce


--
Dan Derousie


Scanning old photos with faded dyes

Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
 

Hi. New member, new topic, but perhaps familiar to many of you.

I have some old photos whose dyes have faded terribly...especially the blue. People's blue jeans look green. Using auto-levelling helps some, but you can't boost blue that just isn't there.

 

I also have some low-resolution scans of these same photos that were done many years ago. The image scale is bad, but the color balance is good.

 

What I'd like to do is somehow merge the hi-resolution scans I'm doing now with the colors from the older images. Any thoughts on how this could be done?

 

Thanks,

Bruce


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Colour and still/moving image display - lessons from cinematography

Michael King
 

As more of us get involved in displaying images on screen for public consumption and also video; How the movies handle colour is an interesting reference point.

A recent thread on a 3D VFX site threw up some interesting references that I thought might be of interest to some of this forum's members.

With thanks to the members of 3DPRO, here are their suggestions ....

Charles Poynton's site is a great starting point: http://poynton.ca/


The Cinematic Color (v2) is the best resource for this from the perspective of our industry: 

https://ciechanow.ski/color-spaces/ (check out his other explainers, they're all great)
https://hg2dc.com/ (comprehensive and fun)

Happy Holidays.

Mike King


Re: The Colors of the Pandemic Year 2022, Part 2

 
Edited

First off Happy Holidays to Dan and the entire gang!!

Dan, thanks for the review! Any search in Google brings up tittles like "230 Color Trends for 2022",  how can anyone say 230 choices be a trend at all, and who is right?? The "corporate  descriptions" of the colors was almost poetic, to then show us colors that  I am not sure large populations would engage in to "change:" the look and feel of their homes, clothing, etc.

I want to start by being ironic, but I have to ask: maybe the well-reported industry problems forecasted in November, announcing serious  issues to generate Blue pigments and inks -at all levels-  might be the actual reason so why many companies  suddenly "organically switched" to Greenish tones? I would not see myself painting even one wall with any of the greens, at all! 
At the very least, the producers of the Cream Moonstone acknowledged that the color could be "something that plays a supportive role to complement other colors", so that seems  humble in comparison to all other descriptions.

I think most of us, after the pandemic lockdown have the gut feeling of looking for expansion "out there", closer to nature and human contact in person. I would not dare saying anything about the colors of human contact, but the colors of nature are something that has soothed the pressure for me and my family, since we live behind a small yet beautiful park and we go and walk there almost daily, a new routine, so we surround ourselves with green and earth tones, with the Miami blue skies as a backdrop technically  all year long, so I would not see myself looking for "alternative" colors for expansion.
A friend of mine traveled to Iceland and had a great time, but he immediately noticed the entire place is just dark grey volcanic rocks and snow with no trees, no vegetation of any kind. We had a short FaceTime  conversation while he was there, and when he came back, he mentioned how shocked and amazed he was to have seen all the greens of my backyard (overlooking the park) in my house, due to the absolute absence of Nature greens up there!

Finally, in order to detach from my own interpretations and going for a more general approach, I was lucky to stumble upon the Advertisng campaign for Amazon and Lego in the website called Behance.net by photographer Julia Johnson.

The images have been amazingly well produced and styled, both in terms if concept and color mixes, and I see Yellow, Red, Orange, Peach, Pinks,  all over the place, along with Blues and Purple, plus other in-between tones. Here are the link so you can check it out and see for yourself. The photographer also has a portfolio that she shot for  Lego, so I assume she is well known for this type of work, flat lighting and great color combinations.

Campaign for AMAZON:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/133812209/Amazon-Summer-And-Fall-2021-Campaigns?tracking_source=project_owner_other_projects

Campaign for LEGO:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/133811931/Target-x-LEGO-Holiday-Campaign?tracking_source=project_owner_other_projects

This is a Jewelry campaign, full of explosive colors, pretty much opposite to 2022 trends.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/128833263/Brazen-Beauty-for-Cast?tracking_source=project_owner_other_projects


I VERY MUCH doubt companies as big as Amazon or Lego would be missing the target in relation to the use of colors for their own global campaigns.

One last ironic comment: Pinterest has reported that  using AI to statistically evaluate the entire site, they found out the most seen pictures in the entire set of millions and millions of images  on the website are those which have Red as important part of the color mix. AI also concluded people stayed away from images with too much Yellow.

Go Figure...

Regards to all.

--
Jorge Parra 
www.jJorgeParraPhotography.com
Miami


The Colors of the Pandemic Year 2022, Part 2

Dan Margulis
 

Continuing the discussion of prediction of color trends, divided into two halves. The first showed five rather similar greens. We now move on to the non-greens, reminding you that in this unhappy year, nobody has picked anything warm, which I suspect is unprecedented. Almost all choices are ambiguous, in the sense that one of the AB channels is positive and the other negative, as opposed to an uplifting red or a warm yellow where both are positive, or a cool aqua/teal where both are negative.

The vendor descriptions of these non-green choices break new ground in pomposity. Be warned. With that, I turn the floor over to them.
 
Cream Moonstone, from Roommates Decor, which specializes in colorful wallpaper, but  here offers us something completely bland, at odds with their reputation: “This is a color that provides a restorative calm, while also offering a refreshing sense of energy and optimism to lead the way in 2022. It’s a versatile hue that can be both the gentle hero of a space–with a stylish neutral palette throughout–or something that plays a supportive role to complement other colors. It’s also unexpected–people often associate us with our bold, bright patterns, and we’re excited to show that peel and stick wallpaper can also yield spaces that promote calm and relaxation.”
 
Bright Skies, from AkzoNobel, a Dutch paint and coatings firm: “The airy, light blue feels like the breath of fresh air we all need. After a spell of feeling shut in, people are craving expansion. Extensive global trend research conducted by a team of in-house paints and coatings color experts and international design professionals reveals that we want open air, connections to the great outdoors and a fresh approach to everything.”
 
Cosmos, from Robert Kaufman Fabrics: “This extraplanetary purple embodies the majesty and mystery of the universe.” Wow.
 
Orchid Flower, from WGSN, a London-based consumer trend forecast firm: “Has an intense, hyper-real and energizing quality that will stand out in both real-life and digital settings. It is also versatile enough to work across seasons and continents. In a challenging time, this saturated magenta tone will be a great way to create a sense of positivity and escapism.”
 
Very Peri, (short for Periwinkle, from the most well-known authority of all): “A new Pantone color whose courageous presence encourages personal inventiveness and creativity."
 
These two posts, then, summarize vendor ideas of what constitutes courageous, intense, energizing, extraplanetary, organic. uplifting, relaxed, and soothing in this challenging year. Maybe so, but I find them depressing and at best, ambiguous. We'll see whether they are, in fact, the colors of the year.

Dan Margulis
 


The Colors of the Pandemic Year 2022, Part 1

Dan Margulis
 

“HINT: It’s inspired by the natural world’s ability to adapt and regenerate.”
 
That was a major paint manufacturer, announcing that it would shortly name its 2022 Color of the Year. 
 
We tend to associate the term Color of the Year with Pantone, but many companies offer competing nominees, trying to predict the trends of the forthcoming year. Some of these companies are thinking primarily of wall covering, others of furniture, still others of fashion and advertising, but as usual a color that is trendy in one of these areas is likely to be so in the others.
 
The predictions sometimes turn out wrong but more often they are at least somewhat correct. So I thought it useful to take a look at what's being forecast for our tastes in this most challenging of years. I've looked for all the 2022 Colors of the Year I could find--eleven of them--and how the companies choosing them explained their decisions.
 
So, what do you think the choices were? Would it be substantially different than in any other year?
 
Answer: yes, absolutely, both in how many companies chose almost the same color, and in the class of colors chosen.
 
For the first time I can recall, there's not a single warm color. No reds, no oranges, no yellows, nothing inviting, nothing optimistic. Only one, perhaps two, of the colors would be considered assertive. And the featured color, in 9 of 11 cases, is ambiguous: either A-negative B-positive, or vice versa.
 
I'll let these pandemic colors, and their advocates, speak for themselves, but here's the summary: six greens, two magentas, one purplish blue, one light blue, and one near-neutral. I can only show ten samples, because the eleventh was described by its advocate, Etsy, only in words: “Symbolizing harmony and growth, along with royalty and refinement, emerald green is the perfect color to remind us to find balance this year.”
 
Your guess is as good as mine for what emerald green means, but we don't have to guess at the other five greens being shown in this first of two posts. They're all quite similar: dull, yellowish, not reminding us of vegetation at all. Definitely not the hues one would consider uplifting; in my days as a retoucher my colleagues might have referred to any of them as puke green.
 
Anyway, here are what the vendors have to say about them.
 
Breezeway, from the paint company Behr:  “A relaxed and uplifting sea glass green expressing peace and tranquility for forward movement.”
 
Evergreen Fog, from paint company Sherwin-Williams:  “The pandemic certainly influenced where we are with colors. Consumers were seeking nourishing, meaningful, reassuring, and healing…organic, nature-inspired palettes like warm brown and cool green tones are essential to achieving a restorative state and satisfying a need for energizing positivity.” 
 
Guacamole, from paint company Glidden: “This spirited yet soothing green brings an organic energy to any space, which is needed because we all know you’ve probably killed at least three plants this year.”
 
October Mist, from paint company Benjamin Moore: “This gently shaded sage quietly anchors a space, while encouraging individual expression through color.”
 
Olive Sprig, from paint company PPG: “A midtone, neutral, lush green with an organic green undertone.”

I will treat the non-greens in a second post. 
 
Dan Margulis


Re: Miscellaneous

Hector Davila
 



On 12/7/2021 7:16 PM, Dan Margulis via groups.io wrote:

The consequence is not just that the phone captures are much better than they used to be. It’s that anybody who tries to explain “how to correct an iPhone photo” is on a fool’s errand. His advice may be correct today, but it won’t be for much longer.



I used to wonder how to color correct people's old Polaroids and Instamatic color photos before personal computers were invented. Now it's iPhone photos.

The answer is new tools, new processes, and new techniques needs to be implemented.

Hector Davila

 


Re: Miscellaneous

Dan Margulis
 



On Dec 4, 2021, at 4:30 AM, Frederick Yocum <frederick@...> wrote:

I think a technological process similar to this is already happening in iPhone. As someone who has had to suffer through trying to recover acceptable images from shaky phone photos in the field, the raw quality of output has gone up significantly in the last couple of years. 

Quite so. This is what you might expect when you have extremely smart developers who are nevertheless inexperienced in imaging, but have an unlimited budget for learning and for improvement. They’re capable of doing some great things and some stupid ones. But they have a tendency to correct those stupid things in later releases and it’s often pretty easy to do so.

The consequence is not just that the phone captures are much better than they used to be. It’s that anybody who tries to explain “how to correct an iPhone photo” is on a fool’s errand. His advice may be correct today, but it won’t be for much longer.

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