Re: Retired need to sell off some kit


Hi Jeff,

I sold on eBay and also donated as much as possible to the school of plastic arts.

If you can do without the money, then just donate it or give it away to whomever will want it.

I have friends who are tired of the digital capture and are shooting film, specially B&W. One friend is shooting 8x10 Polaroids! There are probably a whole bunch of these people around you. If you feel you can help them by donating equipment so they can get better at it, do it.

I'm for sure, not going back to the lab! 😁

All the best!


Re: Retired need to sell off some kit

Robert Wheeler

We did not explore options outside of our local area.
Robert Wheeler

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

Frederick Yocum

Mine was 513.   This the first time I saw the par as hands down the best of the bunch.  Though, I was also surprised at how many variations to which I responded positively in isolation from others. There was a lot of room for interpretation.

Frederick Yocum

Re: Retired need to sell off some kit

Said Nuseibeh

Did you try KEH?


Re: Retired need to sell off some kit

Robert Wheeler

This issue came up when a person wanted to donate darkroom equipment, printing papers, and chemicals to our local camera club (Vancouver, WA). The club does not have a physical presence and would need to dispose of the stuff and keep the cash. A camera store in Portland, OR, that sells used equipment stopped accepting darkroom equipment more than 10 years ago. The Portland Arts program has a community darkroom, but is shut down for the pandemic and not accepting donations. Another community darkroom also was unable to accept anything due to pandemic shut down. Another used camera equipment store still accepts selected darkroom equipment on consignment, and some supplies as donation, but they generally don't buy such stuff to resell. Could not find a high school, community college, or local college willing to even accept donated equipment. Such stuff shows up on Craigslist from time to time, but success rate for actually making a sale is not clear. We were not able to accept the donation, so the person is going to try selling online a bit at a time. Better opportunities may exist in other communities or other countries.Hope you are able to use this information, dismal though it may be.
Robert Wheeler

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

Edward Bateman

Hello all-

The aspect of this image that I puzzled over the most was the cyan around the base of the fountains... it made me wonder whether the fountain were illuminated by colored light... possibly because color in the bright fountains was beyond the camera's ability to capture due to exposure? I did try more color in the fountains, but rejected that because the larger reflection in the water didn't show a strong color bias and went with a more neutral color edging towards the warm.

Always something to lear, re-learn and puzzle over on these. Doing well always feels like an accomplishment. And as someone who teaches and gives critiques, it is a rare treat to get a meaningful critique from a master.

Mine was 516.

-Edward Bateman

Quoting Gerald Bakker <>:

Mine is 534. Unfortunately, it belongs to the worst entries. I spent a lot of time getting the fountain right, hesitating between white (as water is supposed to be), yellow (simulating some artificial illumination) and anything inbetween, while trying my best to make it look as much sparkling as I could. I forgot to pay attention to the rest of the image. Both the hotel and the sky are full of artifacts. The hotel has a dull color. Add to this the fact that I completely forgot to sharpen...

My favorites are 503, 516, 530 and, as usual, the par. I don't like the very colorful fountains like in versions 524 and 528, but this may be a matter of taste.
Gerald Bakker

moderated Re: Case Study: King of Beasts

Laurentiu Todie

I’ve seen the Aquarium. Not bad!

Laurentiu Todie

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

Gerald Bakker

Mine is 534. Unfortunately, it belongs to the worst entries. I spent a lot of time getting the fountain right, hesitating between white (as water is supposed to be), yellow (simulating some artificial illumination) and anything inbetween, while trying my best to make it look as much sparkling as I could. I forgot to pay attention to the rest of the image. Both the hotel and the sky are full of artifacts. The hotel has a dull color. Add to this the fact that I completely forgot to sharpen...

My favorites are 503, 516, 530 and, as usual, the par. I don't like the very colorful fountains like in versions 524 and 528, but this may be a matter of taste.
Gerald Bakker

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

john c.

I didn't enter this time, but I have to say that the one that really appeals to me is 528. The par version is a close second. I agree with Steve that any version that had dirty looking yellow or greenish water was displeasing. I do want to see a lot of blue in the sky and it all has to look rich and colorful, fun and exciting as possible to be appealing for Vegas clientele. i think 528 does all that without going overboard.

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

Bill Theis

mine is 524

The fountains at the Bellagio are numerous, impressive in their height and patterns, and colorfully lit from below with lights.  Since I couldn't make bigger or more fountains, I went for color.  After all this is Vegas, baby.  This involved a mask and I added a second MMM+CB and went extreme with the settings.  So the colors that were there, were there. No painting in anything. However, the color looked posterized like it does in 505 so I did a blur of both A and B channels to distribute it using a radial blur at 90.  If you are going to photograph one small fountain out of many at a point when it is not tall and powerful, go for color.  Artistic choice.  Replacing the color on the par version with my color looks pretty good (and maybe 50% of my luminosity?)  IMHO

I also went with something I heard someone say that "when everything is colorful, nothing is colorful" so I intentionally didn't go overboard with the building behind the fountains or the sky.  In fact I removed all the purple at the lower part of the building so as not to distract from the fountain as well as keeping the entire background a bit dark

comparing mine to the other entries, I took the fountain color way over the top (the most colorful of any fountain) because, hey, it's Vegas and that's one of the things that impressed me about Bellagio's fountains.  others that went this way were 528 (which looks like the colors may have been painted it-they were not the actual residual colors) as well as 501 523, 529, 531 so I am not alone in the approach.  Colorless water is for waterfalls, not Vegas.

Re: Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results


Hi all,
First impression: I can't imagine a fountain that sprays pee colored liquid is ever going to look inviting. Unfortunately a large number of entries had this interpretation.

moderated Case Study: King of Beasts

Dan Margulis

Halfway through our case studies, we head west from Las Vegas to visit the San Diego Zoo.
*This is our final challenge from the MIT study, with which we are now all familiar. As you know, there are no specific instructions, but it doesn't look like we need a lot of hints here about what's we're looking for.
*In the Photos section, 2021 Case Study: King of Beasts,
I have uploaded a version opened with Camera Raw defaults, and another where the settings were much flatter. You may use either, or fetch the .dng as below. DO NOT WORK ON THE THUMBNAIL ATTACHED TO THIS MESSAGE.
* does not allow .dng format in the Photos section. If you want the .dng, you must download a zipped file from the Files section. NOTE: the zipped file contains the two default images as well, you don't need to download them separately.
*The designated size of this exercise is 3000 x 2000 pixels. If you use the .dng image be sure to open into the correct size. Do not crop, rotate, alter the sizing, apply any lens correction, or delete any tangible objects, because doing any of these things will make it impossible to use your version as part of a par assembly. We recommend that as soon as you acquire, you apply one of the default versions to it to make sure that all pixels line up.
Except as indicated in the above paragraph, you can use whatever methods you like to improve the picture.
*Please keep clear records of what you did for discussion. List members find these very valuable.
*Your final file is to be sRGB with a proper tag. If you work in a different RGB you must Edit: Convert to Profile>sRGB before submitting the file.
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*Entries close Monday morning, 8 March, at 06:00 Eastern/1100Z/12:00 ora italiana.
*Rather than confirm every entrant I've received, I will periodically post the initials of everyone whose file I have.
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*If the filename of your version contains your name or initials, they will be deleted before posting. If you want to be able to identify your version by name once posted, throw in a few extra letters at the end of the filename; I won't delete them.
*I will leave discussion of the results to the group for the first two days after posting, and will then weigh in with my own opinion.

Bellagio at Night: Results #case-study-results

Dan Margulis

I’ve posted the results of the Bellagio exercise, the fifth in a series of 11 case studies.
Reviewing: This image was part of the MIT study. We are not given guidance as to what is wanted.
We have 35 entries. Most people also submitted a list of their steps, thanks very much. I haven’t read these, because I’d rather get a sense of who was successful and who wasn’t before investigating why.
The files don’t have people’s names on them, and were random-generator numbered from #501 to #535. As with past studies, we also have a “par” version, #536. To get it, I chose five that I thought were among the best entrants, and averaged them, each one weighted 20%. This often creates a version that is superior to most if not all of its parents.
Normally I don't comment on results for two days after they're posted. Meanwhile, if you’d like to know how your own version stacked up, download the par version and compare the two directly. Do you think you got the same kind of quality? If not, I hope you’ll find further discussion useful.
The Folder is in the group's Photos section, Case Study 2021: Bellagio at Night,
I also have zipped all 36 entries and uploaded a 68 mb file to our Files section,
Search for
If you are going to study these versions I strongly encourage you to download these files. Many of these entrants vary only in a minor way and it is hard to see the impact of a change without toggling back and forth between them.
I look forward to your comments.
Dan Margulis
P.S. Our next case study will be announced today, look for a separate post.

Retired need to sell off some kit

Jeff Robins

Hi,  Having retired and down sized I find myself with quite a lot of analogue large format kit.  I'm am sure that some of you have been through this and I wonder where might the best place be to sell on. All is is in good condition and working fine, I just have no use for any of it any more, it all needs a good home.  Thanks

List Rules and Objectives

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Re: A growing career

Henry Davis

I come from a commercial printing background from the 70’s, not photography.

Maybe my point would have been clearer had I mentioned my favorite tactile photo album experiences. Those would be the old family albums, many of them with brittle bindings and B&W photos trying to remain on the paper pages, corners stuck down with those little triangles. Even repairing them is a treat, everybody gathered around handling our personal history.

I’m not anti-digital it’s just that digital doesn’t offer me the same experience. I have adapted. I even enjoyed days past when the slide projector came on the scene.

Henry Davis

On Feb 27, 2021, at 2:05 PM, James Gray <> wrote:

The new experience does a lot for me. I do not know what Henry's experience and background are . . .
. . . I have not bothered to mention the "photo album" that people carry around in their pockets most of the time.

James Gray

moderated Re: Case Study: Bellagio at Night

Dan Margulis

A reminder that entries are due in this case study in 24 hours, at 06:00 eastern time Monday/1100Z/12:00 ora italiana

I confirm receipt of entries from the following individuals:

*indicates that a corrected version was submitted

Entries from the following were at an incorrect size/cropping and would have to be resubmitted:

Dan Margulis

Re: A growing career

Doug Schafer

Our home photo album is a digital display that changes images every 15 seconds...turns off if nobody around, wakes up if you walk by, sleep mode at night. We simply manage a folder of images shared by the family. It couldn't be easier and we don't have to drag out a heavy book to see thousands of images. Yet we see them every day (randomly). Can remote control to hold, fast forward, etc. The digital age has some significant advantages. We can add/subtract images  or change view order via cell phone, tablet, or PC. Don't even need to be home to change or view.  OTOH I have many many boxes of slides and negatives from 40 years to review and scan to add to the digital collection of memories.
Doug Schafer

Re: A growing career

James Gray

The new experience does a lot for me.  I do not know what Henry's experience and background are.  So I will tell you what mine is.  I am purely an amateur at both photography and post-processing.  I acquired a Kodak Brownie in 1958.  I acquired my first SLR in about 1968.  I have a collection of over 30,000 slides.  I think I have sold about $500 worth of images, but the last sale was over 10 years ago.  I am retired and have no need to try to make any money off my photography.  I do enter competitions and juried shows.  I will also mention that I was a beta reader for two of Dan's books.

As another side note, a few years ago my wife was looking at websites recommending how to pack light for travel.  There were a couple of questions on one website.  The first question was "Do you really need your camera?"  As a follow up the question was. "How many times do you look at your photos from your vacations?"  Our answer to the last question is hundreds of times.  There are so many other ways to view and enjoy photos that were captured digitally than passing a tablet around.  We run a continuous slide show on a spare monitor near our dinette table.  It is attached to our laptop.  We do enjoy looking at the photos from our trips over and over.  Each of our other computers is set up to show photos when they switch to "screen saver".  Before the pandemic, there were many times we showed a collection of our photos on our TV screen.  In addition, I have made several photo books from places like Blurb and Shutterfly.  I like those better than old photo albums.  Back in film days, I would occasionally make 11X14 prints that cost about $30 each.  Now I can make an 11X14 print from my digital files for about $2.50.  I have some of those framed and hanging in our house.  Some are hanging up without being framed.  So for me, the digital age provides so many other ways to view and share images than in film days.  I have not bothered to mention the "photo album" that people carry around in their pockets most of the time.

James Gray

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 9:47 PM Henry Davis <davishr@...> wrote:
I understand that the experience of the family photo album must change with the times.  But I must express that it’s not the same now in major ways - touching, handling and passing.  Passing a tablet around the table just doesn’t evince the same feelings for me.  I hope the new experience offers more to others than it does for me.

I love the old photo album, a real page-turner.

Henry Davis

Re: A growing career

john c.

For most people, the future is called your own printer. With today's automated color management, it's no longer necessary to go to a lab to get pretty good and often great results. Extraordinary results still require an expert, but experts have less perceived value than in the past since home equipment does so much for so little. That leaves the cream of the crop all vying for the high end corporate work which naturally begets an over supply of high end talent for a small and diminishing market. The biggest labs have invested millions in grand format equipment to basically make signage and other display and industrial imaging products, not photofinishing. Retouching and restoration is quickly becoming automated through A.I. after having been outsourced to low wage foreign countries for years, so they aren't secure business models. Safe niche markets don't last long if they're profitable.

But it's not just our industry that's being hit. Artificial intelligence is replacing human workers of all types, not only drivers and factory workers, but now even doctors, lawyers and accountants stand to be replaced with systems that can do their jobs better, cheaper and faster. What we're seeing was the 20th century promise of a future where machines did the work while people enjoyed a life of leisure. Well we got both of those, but they forgot to include a way for most people to have incomes.

It's not all doom and gloom though. Stand up comics still have no competition from machines - yet! But I'm sure they're working on it. One day we'll all die laughing by algorithms.


-----Original Message-----
From: Hector Davila
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [colortheory] A growing career

On 2/26/2021 8:47 PM, Henry Davis wrote:

I love the old photo album, a real page-turner.
Henry Davis

The smartphone is a photo album.

Everybody is walking around with
a photo album in their pocket.
(thousand of photos)

I never seen so many people just
looking at photos every minute, hour,
every day on their smartphone.

Eventually, everyone is going to want to transfer
all those photos to some other place...

photofinishing of the future.

Hector Davila

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