Date   

Re: The group's future

James Gray
 

I would like to see the group continue and would pay for that privilege.

James Gray

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:44 PM Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
It’s been almost a year since our group moved here from yahoogroups. And a good thing, too: yahoogroups has announced that it is shutting down completely effective 16 December.

Now is therefore the appropriate time to ask whether our group still serves a useful purpose and ought to continue. Our group dates from before the turn of the century. The world has changed, and with it the way we communicate. At the moment, we also have enough other things on our mind. I certainly have a tough time working up the enthusiasm to talk about color right now. Also, our group is usually well-equipped for a work-at-home career, and I know that some have a lot of business in this time of pandemic. Others, however, are in sad straits. So are many other members who are not graphics professionals per se.

Anyhow, in about ten days I have to decide whether to shell out the $$ to keep the group running as at present for another year. We also have the option of downgrading to a free plan, which has a few unpleasant features, the worst of which is a hard 1gb limit on all stored materials. Now, after our case studies, we’re at 2.5 gb. Our current paid plan allows 20 gb, so we don’t have to worry about space, but if we shift to the free plan much of our archived material will have to go.

If anyone wants to see the actual rules, they’re at
https://groups.io/static/pricing

We’re now 21 years old. That’s the legal age for drinking in my country. We’ve accomplished a lot in that time. Perhaps it’s time to call it quits. What say you?

Dan







Re: The group's future

Michael Colby
 

I'd donate to the cause to keep it running

-----Original Message-----
From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Margulis via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:44 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io
Subject: [colortheory] The group's future

It’s been almost a year since our group moved here from yahoogroups. And a good thing, too: yahoogroups has announced that it is shutting down completely effective 16 December.

Now is therefore the appropriate time to ask whether our group still serves a useful purpose and ought to continue. Our group dates from before the turn of the century. The world has changed, and with it the way we communicate. At the moment, we also have enough other things on our mind. I certainly have a tough time working up the enthusiasm to talk about color right now. Also, our group is usually well-equipped for a work-at-home career, and I know that some have a lot of business in this time of pandemic. Others, however, are in sad straits. So are many other members who are not graphics professionals per se.

Anyhow, in about ten days I have to decide whether to shell out the $$ to keep the group running as at present for another year. We also have the option of downgrading to a free plan, which has a few unpleasant features, the worst of which is a hard 1gb limit on all stored materials. Now, after our case studies, we’re at 2.5 gb. Our current paid plan allows 20 gb, so we don’t have to worry about space, but if we shift to the free plan much of our archived material will have to go.

If anyone wants to see the actual rules, they’re at https://groups.io/static/pricing

We’re now 21 years old. That’s the legal age for drinking in my country. We’ve accomplished a lot in that time. Perhaps it’s time to call it quits. What say you?

Dan








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The group's future

Dan Margulis
 

It’s been almost a year since our group moved here from yahoogroups. And a good thing, too: yahoogroups has announced that it is shutting down completely effective 16 December.

Now is therefore the appropriate time to ask whether our group still serves a useful purpose and ought to continue. Our group dates from before the turn of the century. The world has changed, and with it the way we communicate. At the moment, we also have enough other things on our mind. I certainly have a tough time working up the enthusiasm to talk about color right now. Also, our group is usually well-equipped for a work-at-home career, and I know that some have a lot of business in this time of pandemic. Others, however, are in sad straits. So are many other members who are not graphics professionals per se.

Anyhow, in about ten days I have to decide whether to shell out the $$ to keep the group running as at present for another year. We also have the option of downgrading to a free plan, which has a few unpleasant features, the worst of which is a hard 1gb limit on all stored materials. Now, after our case studies, we’re at 2.5 gb. Our current paid plan allows 20 gb, so we don’t have to worry about space, but if we shift to the free plan much of our archived material will have to go.

If anyone wants to see the actual rules, they’re at
https://groups.io/static/pricing

We’re now 21 years old. That’s the legal age for drinking in my country. We’ve accomplished a lot in that time. Perhaps it’s time to call it quits. What say you?

Dan


Re: list Rules and Objectives

Jim Sanderson
 

Always good to know the rules. 

Jim Sanderson 

, with purpose and great thought. 

On Oct 2, 2020, at 7:09 AM, Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis@...> wrote:



On Oct 1, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Michael Jahn <michaelejahn@...> wrote:

Do you actually think anyone opens and reads this ?

Apparently so, but probably many more people don’t open it but do note that the list is still operational during times when there haven’t been messages in the last week or so.



Re: list Rules and Objectives

Dan Margulis
 



On Oct 1, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Michael Jahn <michaelejahn@...> wrote:

Do you actually think anyone opens and reads this ?

Apparently so, but probably many more people don’t open it but do note that the list is still operational during times when there haven’t been messages in the last week or so.



Re: list Rules and Objectives

Kent Sutorius
 

Yes

On 10/1/2020 5:28 PM, Michael Jahn wrote:
Do you actually think anyone opens and reads this ?


Respectfully,

Michael Jahn
2718 Cimmaron Ave
Simi Valley, CA 93065

805 416 6946


On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:04 PM Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Applied Color Theory list
General Description and Rules
(This document is posted monthly)

THE MOVE TO GROUPS.IO
In November 2019, this list moved from yahoogroups to groups.io. The yahoo group will remain open due to the large number of links to it. All message and file archives have been moved to the new group.

The main changes:
*A member now has the ability to “mute” a thread or hashtag so that additions to it will no longer be received. Also, a member who uses Digest mode or does not normally receive e-mails can override the setting and receive a certain thread or hashtag.
*Attachments of images etc. within posts are now allowed.
*Although the archive of messages from yahoogroups has been transferred, the numbering system is no longer the same. Therefore, searching for a message based on a number found in another yahoogroups message won’t work. Search for an appropriate text stream, if there is one, instead.
*A more flexible suite of moderation tools enables us to allow many messages to get to the list immediately, without moderator intervention.
*Hashtags are now supported although we haven’t done anything to implement them.
*We are now an open group. The general public can read our messages. This was not the case at yahoogroups.
*Due to it becoming overcrowded, I have reorganized the Files section. All content from 2015 and previous is now in a subfolder. Furthermore, the many Actions that were uploaded in that timeframe have been put in their own sub-subfolder.

OBJECTIVE
The objective of this list is to exchange information that may benefit those who have taken or are considering taking my Applied Color Theory courses, or who are interested in techniques covered in my books, plus related topics. This roughly comprises color correction and other methods that aim at creating satisfactory images, normally for print purposes, occasionally elsewhere.

ANONYMOUS POSTS PROHIBITED
Our tradition is that all messages to this group must be signed with the member's full name. First names only or "handles" are not acceptable, nor is quoting an anonymous third party. We request that you configure groups.io to include your full name automatically as the sender of any message. That will insure that each post will have your name at the top and make it unnecessary for you to sign the post. If you don’t do this, you risk having your posts rejected or having your moderation status changed if you forget to add your signature.

To implement this, find whatever your current name is in the upper right of the groups.io site, click/hold and choose your Account settings. Then, on the left side, click Identity. On the resulting screen choose Account Profile: Edit. On the next screen change Display Name to your own full name, followed by Update Account Profile.

Alternatively, if you are using other groups.io groups, you can create a group-specific signature line that will apply to everything you post.

There are certain valid reasons why a list member might wish to avoid signing his name. For example, the late Ralph Adam Fine was an appeals court judge. He had to be exceedingly cautious about anything he posted, therefore he normally went through me. Others have been granted anonymity because what they posted reflected badly on a boss or a client. 

In such cases, please forward the message to me and I will post it if appropriate with a note of explanation and I will, if appropriate, post it the name deleted. If a person has been granted anonymity, I always use “he” on second reference, regardless of the poster’s actual gender. Persons who have been granted anonymity will not be permitted to attack other list members by name. 

PLEASE SNIP YOUR QUOTES
Many e-mail programs by default append a complete copy of the message being replied to. Unless that message is a short one, the practice is inappropriate for our group. It becomes a particular problem when the appended message itself appends another. Please be sure that the length of any message being appended is appropriate compared to your own original content.

Particularly, if you’re replying to a post that includes an image or other attachment, make sure it doesn’t get repeated in yours. We get charged by the space we use, and one image may take up the space of a thousand text messages.

CROSS-POSTINGS TO OTHER GROUPS
It is a breach of etiquette for list members to post the same question to multiple on-line groups simultaneously. People who answer questions on these lists are often experts in the field who are donating generous amounts of their time to assisting those who need guidance. Nobody wants to waste time responding to a question that's already been satisfactorily answered elsewhere.

Instead, please post the question here or to whatever other group you think is most likely to be helpful. If you haven't gotten an answer you can live with in, say, 48 hours, by all means try a different list. In such a case, it's only courteous to say something like "I have tried the XXX list, and got no reply" or "I asked this on the YYY list, and was told ZZZ, I'm not sure I accept this, would anyone here care to comment?" 

POSTING OF IMAGES and FILES
If you need to refer us to an image, and do not wish to link to some other site, please put it (JPEG only, can be either RGB or CMYK) into the Photos section of the group, setting up a folder if need be.

If you need to post a PDF, an action, or any other type of file that is not an image, use the Files section. Unlike yahoogroups, groups.io will not permit you to post a JPEG or anything else that it identifies as an image there. In the event that you have to post some form of image in the Files section, you’ll need to zip it first.

If you only have one or two images to post, and they don’t belong in a specific folder, please put them into the Miscellaneous folder within the Photos section.

Some folders set up by the moderators are locked, i.e. you can look at, download, and comment on pictures, but not add or delete any. Other folders are open and anyone can post pictures to them.

The direct link to our Photos section is
The direct link to our Files section is

In the transfer process from yahoogroups, all the dates associated with the Photos archive were lost, but they have now been reinstated manually.

AN INTERNATIONAL GROUP
English is not the first language for many subscribers. If you are using acronyms, please be sure that everyone understands what they mean. Also, the preferred format for dates is 5 March; if you write 3/5/12 this means March 5 in the United States, but it means May 3 in most of the rest of the world.

ADVERTISING and COMMERCIAL POSTS
Nobody wants this to become an advertising list, but in practice it is difficult to draw a fine line between a comment and a product plug. Members are requested to use restraint and to ask themselves whether what they are posting is something that a significant number of readers would be interested in. That said, brief plugs are permitted. Similarly, new product announcements are permitted, but the preferred form is to announce briefly and indicate to the list members where further information is available.

Repeated commercial posts are prohibited. Also, there will be little to no tolerance for commercial posts from persons who are not otherwise participating in the list. This includes "public service announcements" or posts promoting private websites.

Unnecessarily lengthy signature blocks that advertise services are discouraged.

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Members are entitled to know if posters have commercial affiliations that might affect their views as to the products and topics they post about. If you have such an affiliation, you are expected to disclose it. This doesn't mean in every post, but often enough so that the readers will be in no doubt as to what your biases might be. For the purpose of this list, if you're writing about a certain product, and you've accepted more than $300 from that company within the last five years, that's something that should be disclosed. Similarly, if you have received freebies worth more than $300 during that time, it should be disclosed.

Furthermore, if you in the last five years have been a developer of or otherwise represented a certain product, and you are writing about a product that might reasonably said to compete with it, you are expected to disclose this.

These rules are not intended to stop you from posting on whatever you like, nor are they intended to force you to give any details at all about the payment. If your signature or company identification (e.g. an adobe.com address) makes your affiliation obvious, there's no need for anything more. Otherwise, a "DISCLOSURE: I have received payments/freebies from this company in the recent past" will suffice.

DIGEST MODE
Members who do not want a high volume of single messages may sign up for this list in digest mode. groups.io offers three choices:
1) Full-featured: you get a full copy of all messages sent, including links and attachments, once a day or after 12 new messages have been posted, whichever comes first.
2) Plain digest: same as above, no links or attachments.
3) Daily summary: once a day, shows topics being discussed only, no text.

You are not permitted to reply directly to a Digest file, because groups.io doesn’t want you to append the whole digest to your reply. Your own e-mail client may seem to allow it, but your attempt will be directed to a dead mailbox at groups.io. Instead, within the Digest, click Reply below the specific message that you wish to reply to.

MODERATION AND INAPPROPRIATE POSTS
This list is moderated, currently by five persons. Traditionally, all posts had to be approved by one of us (Gerald Bakker, Darren Bernaerdt, Sterling Ledet, Dan Margulis, Stephen Marsh), before they were distributed to the group.  With groups.io we implement a more liberal policy: the first post from any member requires moderator approval (otherwise we might be subjected to spam) but once one message has been approved the user may post directly to the list without our intervention.

That said, we anticipate that certain users will remain subject to moderation due to having crossed the line on one of the items listed below. Additionally, certain threads will become subject to moderation if they threaten to get out of control.

If you are subject to moderation we will reject the following types of message without prior warning. If you are not currently subject to moderation, posting one of these is a good way to change that status. NOTE: If we reject a post, we send a message to the sender indicating why. If your post hasn't appeared, and you haven't gotten a rejection message, probably the message got lost in cyberspace.

1) Spam; press releases, product announcements or "classified advertising" from people who haven't participated in the list in at least six months or who are recent signups; form letters; posts from people who don't otherwise participate in the list referring us to private websites; and posts from anyone referring us to links without a reasonably full explanation of what is to be found there.

2) Messages in which a full name does not appear.

3) Messages that do not have an informative title, e.g. "No Subject" or "Digest #1234"

4) Messages responding to messages that are extremely dated or that the rest of the list has not seen at all. Typically, this occurs when Party B replies to Party A offline, and Party A responds to the list.

5) Messages that would subject the group to an unreasonable amount of quoted material, such as reposting lengthy, unedited material from other sources, the attachment of a complete message which itself attached additional messages, or simply appending an entire lengthy message rather than snipping the specific material that is of interest.

6) Technical questions that the moderator is aware are simultaneously crossposted to other group(s). The moderator will generally not approve other types of simultaneous crossposts but may use discretion in exceptional cases.

7) Messages that contain a copyright notice or may present legal problems if posted to the group. 

8) Messages that may be hoaxes.

9) Messages containing attempts at ethnic or sexual humor, whether or not there is other relevant content.

10) Other attempts at humor that the moderator doesn't think are funny and that contain no content relevant to an existing thread.

11) Messages that are derisive or dismissive of another member’s skills in photography or color correction. Constructive criticism is welcome but must be framed in a respectful fashion, even if the person being criticized is a beginner.

12) "Repeats" of recent posts hoping to get responses that the first ones did not.

13) Messages from persons who have been list members for less than six months or who have not posted to the list in the past six months, and which in the judgment of the moderator show a lack of understanding of what the list is about or which duplicate something that has been covered recently. Examples: questions like "how do I calibrate my monitor?"; messages of introduction to the list; questions on topics in which the list does not specialize, and questions on a topic about which a thread has just ended.

14) Messages that do not respond to an existing thread and have nothing to do with color or the purposes of this group, e.g. corrections of people's grammar, needless quibbling over terminology or political correctness, statements in support of some political cause, attempts to unsubscribe, virus warnings, or change of address notifications.

15) Today's web etiquette countenances certain acronyms (e.g. POS, FUBAR, SOL, BFD) where an off-color word is implied. As long as these words are not spelled out there is no objection. In the interest of decorum, however, we ask members to refrain from undisguised use of locutions found on the commonly available "Seven Filthy Words" list.

MODERATION AND CENSORSHIP
We do not wish to censor posts based on their content or to cause people to pull their punches in what they write. We are willing to have reasonably brief threads on almost any color-related topic. Intervention by a moderator to restrict discussion is rare. It will become even rarer in groups.io, since now members have the option of muting a thread that doesn’t interest them. However, it may take place under the following circumstances.

1. If in the judgment of the moderators, a thread is going on too long, we will post publicly to the list and to all participants a request to bring it to a close. Our criteria in doing this may include: limited interest of the thread to the vast majority of the group; repetition of the same points over and over; participation only by a few members; or that there was a closely similar recent thread. Unless the list is being deluged, the moderators try to consult with one another before locking a thread. Ordinarily we give the list 24 hours notice that a thread will be ending so that those interested may post their final thoughts on the subject. In the interim, all posts to the thread will require moderator approval. Afterward, the thread will be locked so that no further posts can be accepted. 

2. Occasionally a thread has become so acid that a moderator posts a warning about civility, or about bringing in irrelevancies such as discussion of political events. In such cases the thread continues, but all additions to the thread will require moderator approval, and the list is on notice that offending posts are subject to rejection at the discretion of the moderators.

3. We reserve the right to limit the sheer volume of posting allowed by any list member or by any interest group that is posting substantially the same type of material.

ARCHIVING
This group has existed since 2/99, but in late 12/00 it shifted servers to egroups, later yahoogroups. In 11/19, it moved to groups,io. All yahoogroups messages, files, and photos are accessible at colortheory.groups.io. Note, however, that the yahoogroups message numbering scheme did not carry over to groups.io. Therefore, any archived message that refers to a different one by number will not link to the correct message. Search by text instead.

From time to time, we have post edited full threads, at
There are currently around 300 such threads available. The most recent update was August, 2013. 

THE MODERNCOLORWORKFLOW SITE
My book Modern Photoshop Color Workflow was released in March, 2013. In conjunction with it, we opened http://www.moderncolorworkflow.com, which has a variety of materials that might supplement the discussions of this list.

RE-USE OF POSTED MATERIAL
In today's information age, the assumption must be that comments posted to groups like this one are for public consumption, and may be freely quoted by others without further permission. Images referred to in group messages, whether posted to this group's photo section or posted on the web sites of others, are a different story. Such images are assumed to be copyrighted material, and no reuse is permissible without the consent of the owner.

AUTO-REPLIES
If you auto-reply to e-mail (typically to inform people that you are on vacation), be sure that the list is excluded. Among other ways, you can do this by setting your auto-reply to ignore either messages containing [colortheory] in the title, or "Precedence: bulk" in the header. If you auto-reply more than once to list messages, your posting privileges will be suspended so that moderators will not have to delete each auto-reply manually. If you subsequently wish to post to the list and receive an automated reply that you are not permitted to post, please contact a moderator.

QUESTIONS AS TO APPROPRIATENESS
If you have doubts as to the propriety of posting something, please feel free to contact me or another moderator directly.

UNSUBSCRIBING and POSTING DIFFICULTIES
Every list message contains an Unsubscribe link at the bottom. If you have any difficulty in either unsubscribing or in posting to the group, consider the possibility that you are no longer posting or receiving under the exact address with which you subscribed. 

If you attempt to post and receive a message stating that, although you are a member, you are not permitted to post, it means that a moderator has manually disallowed your posting privileges. We do this to members who have sent spam (often the result of a virus) or who have set their mailbox to auto-reply to the group explaining that they are out of the office. If you get this message and wish your rights restored, contact a moderator offline.

To change your email address, log into Groups.io. Then look for the dropdown in the top right corner of the page, which will be either your name or email address. Click that and then click Account.

On the edit profile page, you can change your email address. Once you do so, you will receive a new confirmation email. Once you reply to that, you will be all set.

If the email address you wish to change to is already registered with Groups.io, a page will come up explaining the account merge process and verifying that you would like to merge your accounts.


LEDET GRAPHICS TRAINING
This list is sponsored by Ledet Graphics Training, which offers a variety of Internet and graphic arts courses, with company-owned facilities in the Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington, DC areas. For further information, visit www.ledet.com or call 877-819-2665 (+1 770-414-5007 from outside U.S.)


Dan Margulis
Last revised 20 May 2020
Suggestions for revising this document are welcome.



Re: list Rules and Objectives

clegel
 

I'm a newcomer. I read it. 🙂


From: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Wheeler via groups.io <bwheeler350@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2020 4:51 PM
To: colortheory@groups.io <colortheory@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [colortheory] list Rules and Objectives
 
Yes. Looked at rules when received the first time after joining the group. Useful for newcomers. Maybe less useful for regulars, but emailed notice is easy to quickly delete if not needed.
Robert Wheeler


Re: list Rules and Objectives

Robert Wheeler
 

Yes. Looked at rules when received the first time after joining the group. Useful for newcomers. Maybe less useful for regulars, but emailed notice is easy to quickly delete if not needed.
Robert Wheeler


Re: list Rules and Objectives

Michael Jahn
 

Do you actually think anyone opens and reads this ?


Respectfully,

Michael Jahn
2718 Cimmaron Ave
Simi Valley, CA 93065

805 416 6946


On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:04 PM Dan Margulis via groups.io <dmargulis=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Applied Color Theory list
General Description and Rules
(This document is posted monthly)

THE MOVE TO GROUPS.IO
In November 2019, this list moved from yahoogroups to groups.io. The yahoo group will remain open due to the large number of links to it. All message and file archives have been moved to the new group.

The main changes:
*A member now has the ability to “mute” a thread or hashtag so that additions to it will no longer be received. Also, a member who uses Digest mode or does not normally receive e-mails can override the setting and receive a certain thread or hashtag.
*Attachments of images etc. within posts are now allowed.
*Although the archive of messages from yahoogroups has been transferred, the numbering system is no longer the same. Therefore, searching for a message based on a number found in another yahoogroups message won’t work. Search for an appropriate text stream, if there is one, instead.
*A more flexible suite of moderation tools enables us to allow many messages to get to the list immediately, without moderator intervention.
*Hashtags are now supported although we haven’t done anything to implement them.
*We are now an open group. The general public can read our messages. This was not the case at yahoogroups.
*Due to it becoming overcrowded, I have reorganized the Files section. All content from 2015 and previous is now in a subfolder. Furthermore, the many Actions that were uploaded in that timeframe have been put in their own sub-subfolder.

OBJECTIVE
The objective of this list is to exchange information that may benefit those who have taken or are considering taking my Applied Color Theory courses, or who are interested in techniques covered in my books, plus related topics. This roughly comprises color correction and other methods that aim at creating satisfactory images, normally for print purposes, occasionally elsewhere.

ANONYMOUS POSTS PROHIBITED
Our tradition is that all messages to this group must be signed with the member's full name. First names only or "handles" are not acceptable, nor is quoting an anonymous third party. We request that you configure groups.io to include your full name automatically as the sender of any message. That will insure that each post will have your name at the top and make it unnecessary for you to sign the post. If you don’t do this, you risk having your posts rejected or having your moderation status changed if you forget to add your signature.

To implement this, find whatever your current name is in the upper right of the groups.io site, click/hold and choose your Account settings. Then, on the left side, click Identity. On the resulting screen choose Account Profile: Edit. On the next screen change Display Name to your own full name, followed by Update Account Profile.

Alternatively, if you are using other groups.io groups, you can create a group-specific signature line that will apply to everything you post.

There are certain valid reasons why a list member might wish to avoid signing his name. For example, the late Ralph Adam Fine was an appeals court judge. He had to be exceedingly cautious about anything he posted, therefore he normally went through me. Others have been granted anonymity because what they posted reflected badly on a boss or a client. 

In such cases, please forward the message to me and I will post it if appropriate with a note of explanation and I will, if appropriate, post it the name deleted. If a person has been granted anonymity, I always use “he” on second reference, regardless of the poster’s actual gender. Persons who have been granted anonymity will not be permitted to attack other list members by name. 

PLEASE SNIP YOUR QUOTES
Many e-mail programs by default append a complete copy of the message being replied to. Unless that message is a short one, the practice is inappropriate for our group. It becomes a particular problem when the appended message itself appends another. Please be sure that the length of any message being appended is appropriate compared to your own original content.

Particularly, if you’re replying to a post that includes an image or other attachment, make sure it doesn’t get repeated in yours. We get charged by the space we use, and one image may take up the space of a thousand text messages.

CROSS-POSTINGS TO OTHER GROUPS
It is a breach of etiquette for list members to post the same question to multiple on-line groups simultaneously. People who answer questions on these lists are often experts in the field who are donating generous amounts of their time to assisting those who need guidance. Nobody wants to waste time responding to a question that's already been satisfactorily answered elsewhere.

Instead, please post the question here or to whatever other group you think is most likely to be helpful. If you haven't gotten an answer you can live with in, say, 48 hours, by all means try a different list. In such a case, it's only courteous to say something like "I have tried the XXX list, and got no reply" or "I asked this on the YYY list, and was told ZZZ, I'm not sure I accept this, would anyone here care to comment?" 

POSTING OF IMAGES and FILES
If you need to refer us to an image, and do not wish to link to some other site, please put it (JPEG only, can be either RGB or CMYK) into the Photos section of the group, setting up a folder if need be.

If you need to post a PDF, an action, or any other type of file that is not an image, use the Files section. Unlike yahoogroups, groups.io will not permit you to post a JPEG or anything else that it identifies as an image there. In the event that you have to post some form of image in the Files section, you’ll need to zip it first.

If you only have one or two images to post, and they don’t belong in a specific folder, please put them into the Miscellaneous folder within the Photos section.

Some folders set up by the moderators are locked, i.e. you can look at, download, and comment on pictures, but not add or delete any. Other folders are open and anyone can post pictures to them.

The direct link to our Photos section is
The direct link to our Files section is

In the transfer process from yahoogroups, all the dates associated with the Photos archive were lost, but they have now been reinstated manually.

AN INTERNATIONAL GROUP
English is not the first language for many subscribers. If you are using acronyms, please be sure that everyone understands what they mean. Also, the preferred format for dates is 5 March; if you write 3/5/12 this means March 5 in the United States, but it means May 3 in most of the rest of the world.

ADVERTISING and COMMERCIAL POSTS
Nobody wants this to become an advertising list, but in practice it is difficult to draw a fine line between a comment and a product plug. Members are requested to use restraint and to ask themselves whether what they are posting is something that a significant number of readers would be interested in. That said, brief plugs are permitted. Similarly, new product announcements are permitted, but the preferred form is to announce briefly and indicate to the list members where further information is available.

Repeated commercial posts are prohibited. Also, there will be little to no tolerance for commercial posts from persons who are not otherwise participating in the list. This includes "public service announcements" or posts promoting private websites.

Unnecessarily lengthy signature blocks that advertise services are discouraged.

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Members are entitled to know if posters have commercial affiliations that might affect their views as to the products and topics they post about. If you have such an affiliation, you are expected to disclose it. This doesn't mean in every post, but often enough so that the readers will be in no doubt as to what your biases might be. For the purpose of this list, if you're writing about a certain product, and you've accepted more than $300 from that company within the last five years, that's something that should be disclosed. Similarly, if you have received freebies worth more than $300 during that time, it should be disclosed.

Furthermore, if you in the last five years have been a developer of or otherwise represented a certain product, and you are writing about a product that might reasonably said to compete with it, you are expected to disclose this.

These rules are not intended to stop you from posting on whatever you like, nor are they intended to force you to give any details at all about the payment. If your signature or company identification (e.g. an adobe.com address) makes your affiliation obvious, there's no need for anything more. Otherwise, a "DISCLOSURE: I have received payments/freebies from this company in the recent past" will suffice.

DIGEST MODE
Members who do not want a high volume of single messages may sign up for this list in digest mode. groups.io offers three choices:
1) Full-featured: you get a full copy of all messages sent, including links and attachments, once a day or after 12 new messages have been posted, whichever comes first.
2) Plain digest: same as above, no links or attachments.
3) Daily summary: once a day, shows topics being discussed only, no text.

You are not permitted to reply directly to a Digest file, because groups.io doesn’t want you to append the whole digest to your reply. Your own e-mail client may seem to allow it, but your attempt will be directed to a dead mailbox at groups.io. Instead, within the Digest, click Reply below the specific message that you wish to reply to.

MODERATION AND INAPPROPRIATE POSTS
This list is moderated, currently by five persons. Traditionally, all posts had to be approved by one of us (Gerald Bakker, Darren Bernaerdt, Sterling Ledet, Dan Margulis, Stephen Marsh), before they were distributed to the group.  With groups.io we implement a more liberal policy: the first post from any member requires moderator approval (otherwise we might be subjected to spam) but once one message has been approved the user may post directly to the list without our intervention.

That said, we anticipate that certain users will remain subject to moderation due to having crossed the line on one of the items listed below. Additionally, certain threads will become subject to moderation if they threaten to get out of control.

If you are subject to moderation we will reject the following types of message without prior warning. If you are not currently subject to moderation, posting one of these is a good way to change that status. NOTE: If we reject a post, we send a message to the sender indicating why. If your post hasn't appeared, and you haven't gotten a rejection message, probably the message got lost in cyberspace.

1) Spam; press releases, product announcements or "classified advertising" from people who haven't participated in the list in at least six months or who are recent signups; form letters; posts from people who don't otherwise participate in the list referring us to private websites; and posts from anyone referring us to links without a reasonably full explanation of what is to be found there.

2) Messages in which a full name does not appear.

3) Messages that do not have an informative title, e.g. "No Subject" or "Digest #1234"

4) Messages responding to messages that are extremely dated or that the rest of the list has not seen at all. Typically, this occurs when Party B replies to Party A offline, and Party A responds to the list.

5) Messages that would subject the group to an unreasonable amount of quoted material, such as reposting lengthy, unedited material from other sources, the attachment of a complete message which itself attached additional messages, or simply appending an entire lengthy message rather than snipping the specific material that is of interest.

6) Technical questions that the moderator is aware are simultaneously crossposted to other group(s). The moderator will generally not approve other types of simultaneous crossposts but may use discretion in exceptional cases.

7) Messages that contain a copyright notice or may present legal problems if posted to the group. 

8) Messages that may be hoaxes.

9) Messages containing attempts at ethnic or sexual humor, whether or not there is other relevant content.

10) Other attempts at humor that the moderator doesn't think are funny and that contain no content relevant to an existing thread.

11) Messages that are derisive or dismissive of another member’s skills in photography or color correction. Constructive criticism is welcome but must be framed in a respectful fashion, even if the person being criticized is a beginner.

12) "Repeats" of recent posts hoping to get responses that the first ones did not.

13) Messages from persons who have been list members for less than six months or who have not posted to the list in the past six months, and which in the judgment of the moderator show a lack of understanding of what the list is about or which duplicate something that has been covered recently. Examples: questions like "how do I calibrate my monitor?"; messages of introduction to the list; questions on topics in which the list does not specialize, and questions on a topic about which a thread has just ended.

14) Messages that do not respond to an existing thread and have nothing to do with color or the purposes of this group, e.g. corrections of people's grammar, needless quibbling over terminology or political correctness, statements in support of some political cause, attempts to unsubscribe, virus warnings, or change of address notifications.

15) Today's web etiquette countenances certain acronyms (e.g. POS, FUBAR, SOL, BFD) where an off-color word is implied. As long as these words are not spelled out there is no objection. In the interest of decorum, however, we ask members to refrain from undisguised use of locutions found on the commonly available "Seven Filthy Words" list.

MODERATION AND CENSORSHIP
We do not wish to censor posts based on their content or to cause people to pull their punches in what they write. We are willing to have reasonably brief threads on almost any color-related topic. Intervention by a moderator to restrict discussion is rare. It will become even rarer in groups.io, since now members have the option of muting a thread that doesn’t interest them. However, it may take place under the following circumstances.

1. If in the judgment of the moderators, a thread is going on too long, we will post publicly to the list and to all participants a request to bring it to a close. Our criteria in doing this may include: limited interest of the thread to the vast majority of the group; repetition of the same points over and over; participation only by a few members; or that there was a closely similar recent thread. Unless the list is being deluged, the moderators try to consult with one another before locking a thread. Ordinarily we give the list 24 hours notice that a thread will be ending so that those interested may post their final thoughts on the subject. In the interim, all posts to the thread will require moderator approval. Afterward, the thread will be locked so that no further posts can be accepted. 

2. Occasionally a thread has become so acid that a moderator posts a warning about civility, or about bringing in irrelevancies such as discussion of political events. In such cases the thread continues, but all additions to the thread will require moderator approval, and the list is on notice that offending posts are subject to rejection at the discretion of the moderators.

3. We reserve the right to limit the sheer volume of posting allowed by any list member or by any interest group that is posting substantially the same type of material.

ARCHIVING
This group has existed since 2/99, but in late 12/00 it shifted servers to egroups, later yahoogroups. In 11/19, it moved to groups,io. All yahoogroups messages, files, and photos are accessible at colortheory.groups.io. Note, however, that the yahoogroups message numbering scheme did not carry over to groups.io. Therefore, any archived message that refers to a different one by number will not link to the correct message. Search by text instead.

From time to time, we have post edited full threads, at
There are currently around 300 such threads available. The most recent update was August, 2013. 

THE MODERNCOLORWORKFLOW SITE
My book Modern Photoshop Color Workflow was released in March, 2013. In conjunction with it, we opened http://www.moderncolorworkflow.com, which has a variety of materials that might supplement the discussions of this list.

RE-USE OF POSTED MATERIAL
In today's information age, the assumption must be that comments posted to groups like this one are for public consumption, and may be freely quoted by others without further permission. Images referred to in group messages, whether posted to this group's photo section or posted on the web sites of others, are a different story. Such images are assumed to be copyrighted material, and no reuse is permissible without the consent of the owner.

AUTO-REPLIES
If you auto-reply to e-mail (typically to inform people that you are on vacation), be sure that the list is excluded. Among other ways, you can do this by setting your auto-reply to ignore either messages containing [colortheory] in the title, or "Precedence: bulk" in the header. If you auto-reply more than once to list messages, your posting privileges will be suspended so that moderators will not have to delete each auto-reply manually. If you subsequently wish to post to the list and receive an automated reply that you are not permitted to post, please contact a moderator.

QUESTIONS AS TO APPROPRIATENESS
If you have doubts as to the propriety of posting something, please feel free to contact me or another moderator directly.

UNSUBSCRIBING and POSTING DIFFICULTIES
Every list message contains an Unsubscribe link at the bottom. If you have any difficulty in either unsubscribing or in posting to the group, consider the possibility that you are no longer posting or receiving under the exact address with which you subscribed. 

If you attempt to post and receive a message stating that, although you are a member, you are not permitted to post, it means that a moderator has manually disallowed your posting privileges. We do this to members who have sent spam (often the result of a virus) or who have set their mailbox to auto-reply to the group explaining that they are out of the office. If you get this message and wish your rights restored, contact a moderator offline.

To change your email address, log into Groups.io. Then look for the dropdown in the top right corner of the page, which will be either your name or email address. Click that and then click Account.

On the edit profile page, you can change your email address. Once you do so, you will receive a new confirmation email. Once you reply to that, you will be all set.

If the email address you wish to change to is already registered with Groups.io, a page will come up explaining the account merge process and verifying that you would like to merge your accounts.


LEDET GRAPHICS TRAINING
This list is sponsored by Ledet Graphics Training, which offers a variety of Internet and graphic arts courses, with company-owned facilities in the Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington, DC areas. For further information, visit www.ledet.com or call 877-819-2665 (+1 770-414-5007 from outside U.S.)


Dan Margulis
Last revised 20 May 2020
Suggestions for revising this document are welcome.


list Rules and Objectives

Dan Margulis
 

Applied Color Theory list
General Description and Rules
(This document is posted monthly)

THE MOVE TO GROUPS.IO
In November 2019, this list moved from yahoogroups to groups.io. The yahoo group will remain open due to the large number of links to it. All message and file archives have been moved to the new group.

The main changes:
*A member now has the ability to “mute” a thread or hashtag so that additions to it will no longer be received. Also, a member who uses Digest mode or does not normally receive e-mails can override the setting and receive a certain thread or hashtag.
*Attachments of images etc. within posts are now allowed.
*Although the archive of messages from yahoogroups has been transferred, the numbering system is no longer the same. Therefore, searching for a message based on a number found in another yahoogroups message won’t work. Search for an appropriate text stream, if there is one, instead.
*A more flexible suite of moderation tools enables us to allow many messages to get to the list immediately, without moderator intervention.
*Hashtags are now supported although we haven’t done anything to implement them.
*We are now an open group. The general public can read our messages. This was not the case at yahoogroups.
*Due to it becoming overcrowded, I have reorganized the Files section. All content from 2015 and previous is now in a subfolder. Furthermore, the many Actions that were uploaded in that timeframe have been put in their own sub-subfolder.

OBJECTIVE
The objective of this list is to exchange information that may benefit those who have taken or are considering taking my Applied Color Theory courses, or who are interested in techniques covered in my books, plus related topics. This roughly comprises color correction and other methods that aim at creating satisfactory images, normally for print purposes, occasionally elsewhere.

ANONYMOUS POSTS PROHIBITED
Our tradition is that all messages to this group must be signed with the member's full name. First names only or "handles" are not acceptable, nor is quoting an anonymous third party. We request that you configure groups.io to include your full name automatically as the sender of any message. That will insure that each post will have your name at the top and make it unnecessary for you to sign the post. If you don’t do this, you risk having your posts rejected or having your moderation status changed if you forget to add your signature.

To implement this, find whatever your current name is in the upper right of the groups.io site, click/hold and choose your Account settings. Then, on the left side, click Identity. On the resulting screen choose Account Profile: Edit. On the next screen change Display Name to your own full name, followed by Update Account Profile.

Alternatively, if you are using other groups.io groups, you can create a group-specific signature line that will apply to everything you post.

There are certain valid reasons why a list member might wish to avoid signing his name. For example, the late Ralph Adam Fine was an appeals court judge. He had to be exceedingly cautious about anything he posted, therefore he normally went through me. Others have been granted anonymity because what they posted reflected badly on a boss or a client. 

In such cases, please forward the message to me and I will post it if appropriate with a note of explanation and I will, if appropriate, post it the name deleted. If a person has been granted anonymity, I always use “he” on second reference, regardless of the poster’s actual gender. Persons who have been granted anonymity will not be permitted to attack other list members by name. 

PLEASE SNIP YOUR QUOTES
Many e-mail programs by default append a complete copy of the message being replied to. Unless that message is a short one, the practice is inappropriate for our group. It becomes a particular problem when the appended message itself appends another. Please be sure that the length of any message being appended is appropriate compared to your own original content.

Particularly, if you’re replying to a post that includes an image or other attachment, make sure it doesn’t get repeated in yours. We get charged by the space we use, and one image may take up the space of a thousand text messages.

CROSS-POSTINGS TO OTHER GROUPS
It is a breach of etiquette for list members to post the same question to multiple on-line groups simultaneously. People who answer questions on these lists are often experts in the field who are donating generous amounts of their time to assisting those who need guidance. Nobody wants to waste time responding to a question that's already been satisfactorily answered elsewhere.

Instead, please post the question here or to whatever other group you think is most likely to be helpful. If you haven't gotten an answer you can live with in, say, 48 hours, by all means try a different list. In such a case, it's only courteous to say something like "I have tried the XXX list, and got no reply" or "I asked this on the YYY list, and was told ZZZ, I'm not sure I accept this, would anyone here care to comment?" 

POSTING OF IMAGES and FILES
If you need to refer us to an image, and do not wish to link to some other site, please put it (JPEG only, can be either RGB or CMYK) into the Photos section of the group, setting up a folder if need be.

If you need to post a PDF, an action, or any other type of file that is not an image, use the Files section. Unlike yahoogroups, groups.io will not permit you to post a JPEG or anything else that it identifies as an image there. In the event that you have to post some form of image in the Files section, you’ll need to zip it first.

If you only have one or two images to post, and they don’t belong in a specific folder, please put them into the Miscellaneous folder within the Photos section.

Some folders set up by the moderators are locked, i.e. you can look at, download, and comment on pictures, but not add or delete any. Other folders are open and anyone can post pictures to them.

The direct link to our Photos section is
The direct link to our Files section is

In the transfer process from yahoogroups, all the dates associated with the Photos archive were lost, but they have now been reinstated manually.

AN INTERNATIONAL GROUP
English is not the first language for many subscribers. If you are using acronyms, please be sure that everyone understands what they mean. Also, the preferred format for dates is 5 March; if you write 3/5/12 this means March 5 in the United States, but it means May 3 in most of the rest of the world.

ADVERTISING and COMMERCIAL POSTS
Nobody wants this to become an advertising list, but in practice it is difficult to draw a fine line between a comment and a product plug. Members are requested to use restraint and to ask themselves whether what they are posting is something that a significant number of readers would be interested in. That said, brief plugs are permitted. Similarly, new product announcements are permitted, but the preferred form is to announce briefly and indicate to the list members where further information is available.

Repeated commercial posts are prohibited. Also, there will be little to no tolerance for commercial posts from persons who are not otherwise participating in the list. This includes "public service announcements" or posts promoting private websites.

Unnecessarily lengthy signature blocks that advertise services are discouraged.

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Members are entitled to know if posters have commercial affiliations that might affect their views as to the products and topics they post about. If you have such an affiliation, you are expected to disclose it. This doesn't mean in every post, but often enough so that the readers will be in no doubt as to what your biases might be. For the purpose of this list, if you're writing about a certain product, and you've accepted more than $300 from that company within the last five years, that's something that should be disclosed. Similarly, if you have received freebies worth more than $300 during that time, it should be disclosed.

Furthermore, if you in the last five years have been a developer of or otherwise represented a certain product, and you are writing about a product that might reasonably said to compete with it, you are expected to disclose this.

These rules are not intended to stop you from posting on whatever you like, nor are they intended to force you to give any details at all about the payment. If your signature or company identification (e.g. an adobe.com address) makes your affiliation obvious, there's no need for anything more. Otherwise, a "DISCLOSURE: I have received payments/freebies from this company in the recent past" will suffice.

DIGEST MODE
Members who do not want a high volume of single messages may sign up for this list in digest mode. groups.io offers three choices:
1) Full-featured: you get a full copy of all messages sent, including links and attachments, once a day or after 12 new messages have been posted, whichever comes first.
2) Plain digest: same as above, no links or attachments.
3) Daily summary: once a day, shows topics being discussed only, no text.

You are not permitted to reply directly to a Digest file, because groups.io doesn’t want you to append the whole digest to your reply. Your own e-mail client may seem to allow it, but your attempt will be directed to a dead mailbox at groups.io. Instead, within the Digest, click Reply below the specific message that you wish to reply to.

MODERATION AND INAPPROPRIATE POSTS
This list is moderated, currently by five persons. Traditionally, all posts had to be approved by one of us (Gerald Bakker, Darren Bernaerdt, Sterling Ledet, Dan Margulis, Stephen Marsh), before they were distributed to the group.  With groups.io we implement a more liberal policy: the first post from any member requires moderator approval (otherwise we might be subjected to spam) but once one message has been approved the user may post directly to the list without our intervention.

That said, we anticipate that certain users will remain subject to moderation due to having crossed the line on one of the items listed below. Additionally, certain threads will become subject to moderation if they threaten to get out of control.

If you are subject to moderation we will reject the following types of message without prior warning. If you are not currently subject to moderation, posting one of these is a good way to change that status. NOTE: If we reject a post, we send a message to the sender indicating why. If your post hasn't appeared, and you haven't gotten a rejection message, probably the message got lost in cyberspace.

1) Spam; press releases, product announcements or "classified advertising" from people who haven't participated in the list in at least six months or who are recent signups; form letters; posts from people who don't otherwise participate in the list referring us to private websites; and posts from anyone referring us to links without a reasonably full explanation of what is to be found there.

2) Messages in which a full name does not appear.

3) Messages that do not have an informative title, e.g. "No Subject" or "Digest #1234"

4) Messages responding to messages that are extremely dated or that the rest of the list has not seen at all. Typically, this occurs when Party B replies to Party A offline, and Party A responds to the list.

5) Messages that would subject the group to an unreasonable amount of quoted material, such as reposting lengthy, unedited material from other sources, the attachment of a complete message which itself attached additional messages, or simply appending an entire lengthy message rather than snipping the specific material that is of interest.

6) Technical questions that the moderator is aware are simultaneously crossposted to other group(s). The moderator will generally not approve other types of simultaneous crossposts but may use discretion in exceptional cases.

7) Messages that contain a copyright notice or may present legal problems if posted to the group. 

8) Messages that may be hoaxes.

9) Messages containing attempts at ethnic or sexual humor, whether or not there is other relevant content.

10) Other attempts at humor that the moderator doesn't think are funny and that contain no content relevant to an existing thread.

11) Messages that are derisive or dismissive of another member’s skills in photography or color correction. Constructive criticism is welcome but must be framed in a respectful fashion, even if the person being criticized is a beginner.

12) "Repeats" of recent posts hoping to get responses that the first ones did not.

13) Messages from persons who have been list members for less than six months or who have not posted to the list in the past six months, and which in the judgment of the moderator show a lack of understanding of what the list is about or which duplicate something that has been covered recently. Examples: questions like "how do I calibrate my monitor?"; messages of introduction to the list; questions on topics in which the list does not specialize, and questions on a topic about which a thread has just ended.

14) Messages that do not respond to an existing thread and have nothing to do with color or the purposes of this group, e.g. corrections of people's grammar, needless quibbling over terminology or political correctness, statements in support of some political cause, attempts to unsubscribe, virus warnings, or change of address notifications.

15) Today's web etiquette countenances certain acronyms (e.g. POS, FUBAR, SOL, BFD) where an off-color word is implied. As long as these words are not spelled out there is no objection. In the interest of decorum, however, we ask members to refrain from undisguised use of locutions found on the commonly available "Seven Filthy Words" list.

MODERATION AND CENSORSHIP
We do not wish to censor posts based on their content or to cause people to pull their punches in what they write. We are willing to have reasonably brief threads on almost any color-related topic. Intervention by a moderator to restrict discussion is rare. It will become even rarer in groups.io, since now members have the option of muting a thread that doesn’t interest them. However, it may take place under the following circumstances.

1. If in the judgment of the moderators, a thread is going on too long, we will post publicly to the list and to all participants a request to bring it to a close. Our criteria in doing this may include: limited interest of the thread to the vast majority of the group; repetition of the same points over and over; participation only by a few members; or that there was a closely similar recent thread. Unless the list is being deluged, the moderators try to consult with one another before locking a thread. Ordinarily we give the list 24 hours notice that a thread will be ending so that those interested may post their final thoughts on the subject. In the interim, all posts to the thread will require moderator approval. Afterward, the thread will be locked so that no further posts can be accepted. 

2. Occasionally a thread has become so acid that a moderator posts a warning about civility, or about bringing in irrelevancies such as discussion of political events. In such cases the thread continues, but all additions to the thread will require moderator approval, and the list is on notice that offending posts are subject to rejection at the discretion of the moderators.

3. We reserve the right to limit the sheer volume of posting allowed by any list member or by any interest group that is posting substantially the same type of material.

ARCHIVING
This group has existed since 2/99, but in late 12/00 it shifted servers to egroups, later yahoogroups. In 11/19, it moved to groups,io. All yahoogroups messages, files, and photos are accessible at colortheory.groups.io. Note, however, that the yahoogroups message numbering scheme did not carry over to groups.io. Therefore, any archived message that refers to a different one by number will not link to the correct message. Search by text instead.

From time to time, we have post edited full threads, at
There are currently around 300 such threads available. The most recent update was August, 2013. 

THE MODERNCOLORWORKFLOW SITE
My book Modern Photoshop Color Workflow was released in March, 2013. In conjunction with it, we opened http://www.moderncolorworkflow.com, which has a variety of materials that might supplement the discussions of this list.

RE-USE OF POSTED MATERIAL
In today's information age, the assumption must be that comments posted to groups like this one are for public consumption, and may be freely quoted by others without further permission. Images referred to in group messages, whether posted to this group's photo section or posted on the web sites of others, are a different story. Such images are assumed to be copyrighted material, and no reuse is permissible without the consent of the owner.

AUTO-REPLIES
If you auto-reply to e-mail (typically to inform people that you are on vacation), be sure that the list is excluded. Among other ways, you can do this by setting your auto-reply to ignore either messages containing [colortheory] in the title, or "Precedence: bulk" in the header. If you auto-reply more than once to list messages, your posting privileges will be suspended so that moderators will not have to delete each auto-reply manually. If you subsequently wish to post to the list and receive an automated reply that you are not permitted to post, please contact a moderator.

QUESTIONS AS TO APPROPRIATENESS
If you have doubts as to the propriety of posting something, please feel free to contact me or another moderator directly.

UNSUBSCRIBING and POSTING DIFFICULTIES
Every list message contains an Unsubscribe link at the bottom. If you have any difficulty in either unsubscribing or in posting to the group, consider the possibility that you are no longer posting or receiving under the exact address with which you subscribed. 

If you attempt to post and receive a message stating that, although you are a member, you are not permitted to post, it means that a moderator has manually disallowed your posting privileges. We do this to members who have sent spam (often the result of a virus) or who have set their mailbox to auto-reply to the group explaining that they are out of the office. If you get this message and wish your rights restored, contact a moderator offline.

To change your email address, log into Groups.io. Then look for the dropdown in the top right corner of the page, which will be either your name or email address. Click that and then click Account.

On the edit profile page, you can change your email address. Once you do so, you will receive a new confirmation email. Once you reply to that, you will be all set.

If the email address you wish to change to is already registered with Groups.io, a page will come up explaining the account merge process and verifying that you would like to merge your accounts.


LEDET GRAPHICS TRAINING
This list is sponsored by Ledet Graphics Training, which offers a variety of Internet and graphic arts courses, with company-owned facilities in the Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington, DC areas. For further information, visit www.ledet.com or call 877-819-2665 (+1 770-414-5007 from outside U.S.)


Dan Margulis
Last revised 20 May 2020
Suggestions for revising this document are welcome.


Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

john c.
 

In a similar fashion I used to use Median filter to blur the dots until I learned about FFT which gets rid of the dots without losing any detail.
 
john castronovo
 

From: Mike Weis
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [colortheory] Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo
 
That was me who mentioned box blur. There’s not much to using it, set the radius. I used 2.

Again, this was used on an old (1974) high school yearbook. The photos had halftone dots, although probably not exactly like a newspaper’s. I found using box blur worked best to me by trial and error. My goal was to smooth the pics out to be used in a video slideshow project. I ran the blur on the entire page, then later isolated individual pictures. This was generally done from a 600 dpi scan (probably overkill). Before importing to the video editor, a smart sharpen was often run, to bring back a little edge detail. Obviously there was scaling and resizing going on over the course of the project, those were done with the bicubic option appropriate to the goal (generally smoother for downszing) where possible.


Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

Mike Weis
 

That was me who mentioned box blur. There’s not much to using it, set the radius. I used 2.

Again, this was used on an old (1974) high school yearbook. The photos had halftone dots, although probably not exactly like a newspaper’s. I found using box blur worked best to me by trial and error. My goal was to smooth the pics out to be used in a video slideshow project. I ran the blur on the entire page, then later isolated individual pictures. This was generally done from a 600 dpi scan (probably overkill). Before importing to the video editor, a smart sharpen was often run, to bring back a little edge detail. Obviously there was scaling and resizing going on over the course of the project, those were done with the bicubic option appropriate to the goal (generally smoother for downszing) where possible.


Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

CraigK88
 

First time here. I thought I was asking the person who mentioned using a box blur. lol

Not logged in at the moment so can't recall. Not a problem. 
Thanks for responding. 

Regards

craig


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:06 PM Michael Jahn <michaelejahn@...> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:54 PM CraigK88 <maxv65@...> wrote:

Would you mind a short description of using that box blur process on those photos?

 
Hi CraigK88 - who are you asking ?


Respectfully,

Michael Jahn
2718 Cimmaron Ave
Simi Valley, CA 93065

805 416 6946




Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

Michael Jahn
 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:54 PM CraigK88 <maxv65@...> wrote:

Would you mind a short description of using that box blur process on those photos?

 
Hi CraigK88 - who are you asking ?


Respectfully,

Michael Jahn
2718 Cimmaron Ave
Simi Valley, CA 93065

805 416 6946




Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

David Creamer
 

This is how we used to do it in the "old" days:
(Warning: this is from memory!)

  1. Place on scanner bed at a 15 degree angle. (Cannot remember if it was CW or CCW.)
  2. Scan at very high resolution. For example, if the scanner can do optical 4800 resolution, can at 100% at 4800 ppi.)
  3. While at high-resolution, blur the image until the halftone dots blend.
  4. Res-down the image to your normal requirements (225-300 ppi).
  5. Edit as normal.
Dave Creamer


Re: Cleaning up a photo of a newspaper photo

CraigK88
 

Would you mind a short description of using that box blur process on those photos?


Re: Playing with color and shadows to remove 3D perception in living sculptures

B Rowland
 

To me, it seems that the subject line is just as "confusing " as this artist's painting is ;-)

It would seem that she is not "eliminating 3D" but, rather, introducing *so much* "local 3D" that the viewer's eye is so overwhelmed with competing "3D structures" that one loses all sense of "global" 3D references?

Make any sense?

Hope you are keeping well, and safe, and relatively happy!

A friendly Lurker
Barry Rowland


On September 12, 2020 7:12:07 PM GMT+02:00, jorgeparraphotography <jorgeparraphotography@...> wrote:

 Also, the patterns of strokes and areas of color disguise or confuse the actual form of the three-dimensional subjects, similar to the camouflage patterns applied to naval warships, for example:

 

I disagree with the comparison with ship camouflage entirely, since  the logic behind that type of deception is mostly based on Optical illusions created by graphical/geometrical elements, which BTW in most cases imply painting only with black grey and white paints, so this looks totally different to the interplay with colors and the massive elimination of shadows in the sets. I feel her comment about higher contrast applies only locally, this is, the local contrast between neighboring strokes, because the lighting in those images HAS to be totally flat in order to achieve the effect. So there is only contrast by color at a local level, with inclusion of diminished contrast of color in the big picture view, this is, making a contrast match between subject and background.  
 
This may not be the only perception process going on, of course, It still haunts me!!
 
 
Perhaps the reference to increase of contrast in the shadows and highlights is more referring to the contrast between the individual strokes that attempt to portray shading or highlight rather than the absolute difference between shadow and highlight that we would commonly refer to as “contrast” ratio or dynamic range in a photograph.
 
This is the same I understand, but as a photographer I have to insist: this can only happen when the set is lit evenly, a shadow-free setup that by itself helps with flattening the image and then contrast by lighting does not exist, or at most is a constant parameter,  and contrast by color is the only way to generate -or eliminate-  the perception of contrast in the overall image.
 
So, would this be the equivalent of faking an expansion of the dynamic range by massively reducing contrast?
 
When we look at normal objects, there are transitions from the areas we can see in front to the areas on the sides/behind that are hidden from view. When the edges are curved, we normally see a gradual transition with subtle gradients in shading from light to dark. Changing that to a visually abrupt edge imitates what happens at the edge of a flat surface. 
 
One of the interesting cases of “special" lighting is that  one called Axis Lighting, that creates a well-define shadow border or limb effect. One of the impressive things about this is how you totally eliminate other shadows and all textures just vanish. Properly used, a ring flash will create this effect, but you can obtain it with natural light too. The border contrast or limb effect is basically the only element that helps you separate shapes ( subject and background) in an image. If you remove the limb effect, things can be perceived as merging. Add  matching color to the shapes and you may be getting closer to what this painter is doing from a rather intuitive approach.
 
 What keeps me curious is how can we apply this to retouching/adjusting images, and that is when my ignorance takes place and you guys can say and  understand something I still don’t grab.
 
Thanks!!
 
Jorge
--
Jorge Parra 
www.jJorgeParraPhotography.com
Miami


Re: Playing with color and shadows to remove 3D perception in living sculptures

jorgeparraphotography
 

 Also, the patterns of strokes and areas of color disguise or confuse the actual form of the three-dimensional subjects, similar to the camouflage patterns applied to naval warships, for example:

 

I disagree with the comparison with ship camouflage entirely, since  the logic behind that type of deception is mostly based on Optical illusions created by graphical/geometrical elements, which BTW in most cases imply painting only with black grey and white paints, so this looks totally different to the interplay with colors and the massive elimination of shadows in the sets. I feel her comment about higher contrast applies only locally, this is, the local contrast between neighboring strokes, because the lighting in those images HAS to be totally flat in order to achieve the effect. So there is only contrast by color at a local level, with inclusion of diminished contrast of color in the big picture view, this is, making a contrast match between subject and background.  
 
This may not be the only perception process going on, of course, It still haunts me!!
 
 
Perhaps the reference to increase of contrast in the shadows and highlights is more referring to the contrast between the individual strokes that attempt to portray shading or highlight rather than the absolute difference between shadow and highlight that we would commonly refer to as “contrast” ratio or dynamic range in a photograph.
 
This is the same I understand, but as a photographer I have to insist: this can only happen when the set is lit evenly, a shadow-free setup that by itself helps with flattening the image and then contrast by lighting does not exist, or at most is a constant parameter,  and contrast by color is the only way to generate -or eliminate-  the perception of contrast in the overall image.
 
So, would this be the equivalent of faking an expansion of the dynamic range by massively reducing contrast?
 
When we look at normal objects, there are transitions from the areas we can see in front to the areas on the sides/behind that are hidden from view. When the edges are curved, we normally see a gradual transition with subtle gradients in shading from light to dark. Changing that to a visually abrupt edge imitates what happens at the edge of a flat surface. 
 
One of the interesting cases of “special" lighting is that  one called Axis Lighting, that creates a well-define shadow border or limb effect. One of the impressive things about this is how you totally eliminate other shadows and all textures just vanish. Properly used, a ring flash will create this effect, but you can obtain it with natural light too. The border contrast or limb effect is basically the only element that helps you separate shapes ( subject and background) in an image. If you remove the limb effect, things can be perceived as merging. Add  matching color to the shapes and you may be getting closer to what this painter is doing from a rather intuitive approach.
 
 What keeps me curious is how can we apply this to retouching/adjusting images, and that is when my ignorance takes place and you guys can say and  understand something I still don’t grab.
 
Thanks!!
 
Jorge
--
Jorge Parra 
www.jJorgeParraPhotography.com
Miami


Re: Your Phone Wasn’t Built for the Apocalypse

B Rowland
 

Well, the phone,or dslr, these days, can deduce a LOT about a scene, much more than the "grey point" of light meters of 'my day' ;-) , so that one has a relatively good chance of not having breh snow or a breh black cat, and mot cameras, or phones, with electronic viewfinders, can provide real time images that reflect changes in white balance, colour temperature, exposure compensation, et al, so that the photographer's 'intent' can be pretty accurately rendered...not deduced or presumed, of course ;-)


On September 12, 2020 4:49:10 AM GMT+02:00, Henry Davis <davishr@...> wrote:
I hear you, but that applies to film cameras, no?  Really, I agree - but somebody’s going to say it.

Henry Davis

On Sep 11, 2020, at 7:26 PM, kirkthibault via groups.io <kirkthibault@...> wrote:

No matter how smart or artificially intelligenced a camera is or will be, it will not be able to predict the intent of the person operating it. It is like a camera’s meter that attempts to read middle gray without knowing what it is pointing at when the reading is taken, causing snow and a black cat look gray.

Kirk Thibault

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Re: Your Phone Wasn’t Built for the Apocalypse

Henry Davis
 

I hear you, but that applies to film cameras, no? Really, I agree - but somebody’s going to say it.

Henry Davis

On Sep 11, 2020, at 7:26 PM, kirkthibault via groups.io <kirkthibault=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

No matter how smart or artificially intelligenced a camera is or will be, it will not be able to predict the intent of the person operating it. It is like a camera’s meter that attempts to read middle gray without knowing what it is pointing at when the reading is taken, causing snow and a black cat look gray.

Kirk Thibault

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