Date   

Re: fixing moire

dbernaerdt
 

Carey,

Thank you for posting your tutorial. Definitely faster than the LAB/Apply Image technique for this type of moiré.

I added a couple more images to the album you created. They are 100% crops of raw files. They show varying degrees of moiré in all three RGB channels. Have you found a solution other than the LAB/Apply Image technique for these types of images? Once selections are required, that's where I have found my workflow takes a serious dent in productivity.

Cheers,
Darren Bernaerdt

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@..." <carey-r@...> wrote:

I have placed a video on my site (no wise cracks about the site I started 3 years ago but never finished : )

http://colourwork.ca/training_movies/moire/Movie_01.html

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@" <carey-r@> wrote:

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire


Carey Riddell


Re: fixing moire

Michael Demyan <mdemyan@...>
 

Carey - Thank you for the excellent presentation. Web site aside. :o)

Mike Demyan

----- Original Message -----
From: carey-r@...
To: colortheory@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: [colortheory] Re: fixing moire



I have placed a video on my site (no wise cracks about the site I started 3 years ago but never finished : )

http://colourwork.ca/training_movies/moire/Movie_01.html

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@..." <carey-r@...> wrote:
>
> I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.
>
> folder: Digital Back moire
>
>
> Carey Riddell
>


Re: fixing moire

Carey
 

I have placed a video on my site (no wise cracks about the site I started 3 years ago but never finished : )

http://colourwork.ca/training_movies/moire/Movie_01.html

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@..." <carey-r@...> wrote:

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire


Carey Riddell


Re: fixing moire

marshyswamp71 <samarsh@...>
 

Years ago Dan came up with a very good method to fix luminosity moiré. Colour component is easy, Lightness/Luminosity is not so easy. I made this into to an action to semi-automate the task (some user inspection and decision is required at key points).

I would like to see how different methods compare on tougher L moiré!

So yes, bring on the moiré challenge...


Stephen Marsh

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@..." <carey-r@...> wrote:

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire


Carey Riddell


Re: fixing moire

Andrew Webb <andrew@...>
 

I know! I know! (hopping up and down)

/webb


Andrew Webb

Serious Retouching & Color
303.819.0480
--------------------------------------




On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:17 PM, carey-r@... arranged some pixels so they looked like this:

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire

Carey Riddell


Re: fixing moire

richieljordan <rjordan@...>
 

Paint using color mode?

--- In colortheory@..., "carey-r@..." <carey-r@...> wrote:

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire


Carey Riddell


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Henry Davis
 

Would there be a different opinion of news publications that
advertised their conformance to less flexible photographic standards
and guidelines compared to those that don't?

Standards for journalism are indeed different among publishers. It's
an area for competing ethical standards which one might consider
valuable - especially when distrust is a constant topic. I believe
that each case of photojournalistic shenanigans is an opportunity for
publications to make an effort to distinguish themselves. Can they
distinguish themselves by holding on to uncertain, squishy non-
standards?

Henry

On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:43 PM, dlruckus wrote:
<Snip>


--- In colortheory@..., Henry Davis <davishr@...> wrote:

Those "analogue" things were pretty well
ironed out amongst photojournalists and publishers - weren't they?
Uh..well no.Never were and never will be IMO.As always, the owners
nee: publishers set their own individual standards and enforced what
they wished to enforce which was, and is, also a fungible thing.


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Henry Davis
 

To suggest that there ought to be boundaries is not to suggest that
one can't live without a rigid structure. Is there a need for
boundaries? If there is then defining them seems like a reasonable
next step.

There's no need for defining a boundary that doesn't exist.

Neither case obviates the need for personal responsibility. I don't
understand how you arrived at that but it seems to me that there is
some resistance toward responsibility.

Henry

On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:43 PM, dlruckus wrote:



--- In colortheory@..., Henry Davis <davishr@...> wrote:

Those "analogue" things were pretty well
ironed out amongst photojournalists and publishers - weren't they?
Uh..well no.Never were and never will be IMO.As always, the owners
nee: publishers set their own individual standards and enforced what
they wished to enforce which was, and is, also a fungible thing.

It's almost as if there's a lobby of people who don't want a set
of guidelines.

Henry
Pretty much "yes" just as there are some who seemingly can't live
without a rigid structure in place in order to obviate the need for
personal thought or responsibility.

The answer to Dan's question " Do we get fired if we guess wrong? "
in all probability is..'possibly'. Life is a dangerous game and we
all end up dead in the end.


fixing moire

Carey
 

I have placed 2 images in the photo's folder, a before and a after of moire on fabric. I fixed the image in photoshop, it is a simple fix. I will post a more difficult image to fix if there is enough interest. So before I post how I fixed this image have some fun trying to fix it yourself.

folder: Digital Back moire


Carey Riddell


Re: Image request - moiré testing

Fernando Chaves
 

Hi,
In the following link you'll find a sample of moiré. It's a Canon CR2 file:
http://www.fernandochaves.com/moire.zip
The shot was made by me and shows a book for which I made the photography.
It's for use.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Fernando Chaves

-----Message d'origine-----
De : colortheory@... [mailto:colortheory@...] De la
part de Mike Russell
Envoyé : 10 février 2012 17:43
À : colortheory@...
Objet : Re: [colortheory] Image request - moiré testing

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:24 AM, dbernaerdt <dbernaerdt@...> wrote:

I've been testing the moiré reduction feature in the Lightroom 4 beta. As
I don't shoot a lot with DSLR's and nearly all of them have an optical low
pass filter, I don't have a substantial range of images that exhibit
luminance and color moiré. If anyone on the list would be interested in
sharing images affected by moiré that have been shot with a DSLR, I would
be very grateful. I ask that these be raw files and that you can grant
permission for them to be published in print or online.


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

dlruckus
 

--- In colortheory@..., Henry Davis <davishr@...> wrote:

Those "analogue" things were pretty well
ironed out amongst photojournalists and publishers - weren't they?
Uh..well no.Never were and never will be IMO.As always, the owners nee: publishers set their own individual standards and enforced what they wished to enforce which was, and is, also a fungible thing.

It's almost as if there's a lobby of people who don't want a set of guidelines.

Henry
Pretty much "yes" just as there are some who seemingly can't live without a rigid structure in place in order to obviate the need for personal thought or responsibility.

The answer to Dan's question " Do we get fired if we guess wrong? "
in all probability is..'possibly'. Life is a dangerous game and we all end up dead in the end.

Regards,
Duane Ruck




On Feb 9, 2012, at 4:52 AM, Dan Margulis wrote:


On Feb 6, 2012, at 7:53 PM, jrpavel2001 wrote:

Is the use of HDR techniques acceptable in photojournalism?
First you'd have to make a definition. They didn't need multiple
exposures to make the composite that they did--all the detail would
have been in the original shot, nothing blown out, so they could
have gotten there with a hyperaggressive application of PPW.

This image was deliberately intended to have a surreal look IMHO--I
can't believe that anybody would accept it as realistic, so the
caption indicating that it was artificially produced seems
practically unnecessary. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody would
find an ethical problem as they ran it, considering that the caption
made absolutely clear that it was not a straight-out-of-the-camera
image.

If the test is that the photo should contain only elements taken
at the same time, the answer is "no", but even that test is not
clear cut when some cameras can now create HDRs themselves.

And now it gets even more murky. If PPW can get the same
surrealistic result with one exposure, are we going to say that
doing something visually identical but using two is unacceptable?

But if we say that hyperaggressive PPW (or the double-exposure
technique) to produce a result that everyone agrees is surrealistic
is unacceptable in the absence of an explanatory caption, what do we
say about a less aggressive treatment that some people find surreal
and others realistic and still others to be normal color correction?
Does it require an explanation?

Dan Margulis


Re: Image request - moiré testing

Mike Russell
 

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:24 AM, dbernaerdt <dbernaerdt@...> wrote:

I've been testing the moiré reduction feature in the Lightroom 4 beta. As
I don't shoot a lot with DSLR's and nearly all of them have an optical low
pass filter, I don't have a substantial range of images that exhibit
luminance and color moiré. If anyone on the list would be interested in
sharing images affected by moiré that have been shot with a DSLR, I would
be very grateful. I ask that these be raw files and that you can grant
permission for them to be published in print or online.

Not raw, and you'd need to check for availability, but Chris Brown's
images may be of interest:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colortheory/photos/album/108916878/pic/list

Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Henry Davis
 

I think subject matter would count for some of the rationale. You might suspect the axe if a story regarding the delegate count were to be accompanied by your psychedelically stylized political portrait. If the story is about a recent string of vivid sunsets then you might get away with a little enhancement. In any case, it might be time for guidelines for the equipment and practices used by news photojournalists.

Out of the camera differences between the most accurately recorded image file and the best interpretive image file are coming into play. That's not to say that filters and other film related devices haven't been available all along. Those "analogue" things were pretty well ironed out amongst photojournalists and publishers - weren't they? It seems hard to believe that this is such a difficult thing today. It's almost as if there's a lobby of people who don't want a set of guidelines.

Henry

On Feb 9, 2012, at 4:52 AM, Dan Margulis wrote:


On Feb 6, 2012, at 7:53 PM, jrpavel2001 wrote:

Is the use of HDR techniques acceptable in photojournalism?
First you'd have to make a definition. They didn't need multiple exposures to make the composite that they did--all the detail would have been in the original shot, nothing blown out, so they could have gotten there with a hyperaggressive application of PPW.

This image was deliberately intended to have a surreal look IMHO--I can't believe that anybody would accept it as realistic, so the caption indicating that it was artificially produced seems practically unnecessary. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody would find an ethical problem as they ran it, considering that the caption made absolutely clear that it was not a straight-out-of-the-camera image.

If the test is that the photo should contain only elements taken
at the same time, the answer is "no", but even that test is not clear cut when some cameras can now create HDRs themselves.

And now it gets even more murky. If PPW can get the same surrealistic result with one exposure, are we going to say that doing something visually identical but using two is unacceptable?

But if we say that hyperaggressive PPW (or the double-exposure technique) to produce a result that everyone agrees is surrealistic is unacceptable in the absence of an explanatory caption, what do we say about a less aggressive treatment that some people find surreal and others realistic and still others to be normal color correction? Does it require an explanation? Do we get fired if we guess wrong?

Dan Margulis


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Gregory G
 

What about time exposures?  Or converting a color image to black and white?  These alter the reality of the image but are accepted...

 
Greg Groess
greg@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Dan Margulis
 

On Feb 6, 2012, at 7:53 PM, jrpavel2001 wrote:

Is the use of HDR techniques acceptable in photojournalism?
First you'd have to make a definition. They didn't need multiple exposures to make the composite that they did--all the detail would have been in the original shot, nothing blown out, so they could have gotten there with a hyperaggressive application of PPW.

This image was deliberately intended to have a surreal look IMHO--I can't believe that anybody would accept it as realistic, so the caption indicating that it was artificially produced seems practically unnecessary. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody would find an ethical problem as they ran it, considering that the caption made absolutely clear that it was not a straight-out-of-the-camera image.

If the test is that the photo should contain only elements taken at the same time, the answer is "no", but even that test is not clear cut when some cameras can now create HDRs themselves.
And now it gets even more murky. If PPW can get the same surrealistic result with one exposure, are we going to say that doing something visually identical but using two is unacceptable?

But if we say that hyperaggressive PPW (or the double-exposure technique) to produce a result that everyone agrees is surrealistic is unacceptable in the absence of an explanatory caption, what do we say about a less aggressive treatment that some people find surreal and others realistic and still others to be normal color correction? Does it require an explanation? Do we get fired if we guess wrong?

Dan Margulis


Image request - moiré testing

dbernaerdt
 

I've been testing the moiré reduction feature in the Lightroom 4 beta. As I don't shoot a lot with DSLR's and nearly all of them have an optical low pass filter, I don't have a substantial range of images that exhibit luminance and color moiré. If anyone on the list would be interested in sharing images affected by moiré that have been shot with a DSLR, I would be very grateful. I ask that these be raw files and that you can grant permission for them to be published in print or online.

I can be contacted off the list at dbernaerdt@... Thank you very much.

Darren Bernaerdt


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

dlruckus
 

--- In colortheory@..., Dan Margulis <DMargulis@...> wrote:> Since I called another newspaper's intelligence and ethics into question in the firing of another photographer in superficially similar circumstances, I would have to say that based on this explanation I think they did the right thing. And, unlike the other photographer, this one is not going to have the support of his colleagues. Cheating on contest entries is a good way to ensure that.

Dan Margulis
I would be in agreement with that position as well as that of Ron Kelly in this matter and sympathetic to that of J Walten.
I do think we are looking at two separate issues involved with both of the newspaper examples.

One of them is the matter of what is and is not considered fraudulent activities by the industry in general and all that implies in oversight and correction.It's not all that difficult to determine the extremes of the scale while it's likely to be forever contentious as to the dividing lines where the scale tips over.My personal belief is that the line is very mutable and that imposing an arbitrary rule has worse consequences than leaving it to float.

The second and I think as yet unspoken aspect of all this is that in the private sphere (aside from,at least in the US, legal issues of race,gender,age and religious discrimination) all employees are always at risk of discharge for any reason whatsoever or even none at all. While others are free to question the competence of those making such decisions it is still their right to be brilliant or idiotic as it may be. Such truth makes it incumbent on the employee not to be so dumb as to flout the rules of his own employer without acceptance of the risk inherent to his or her acts.

Thus, in my view, the first examples justification was suspect while in the second the individual got what he deserved, but both came a cropper on their own hubris as to institutional accountability.

Regards,
Duane Ruck


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Dan Margulis
 

J writes,

Look people, it's not that hard. If you want to retouch newspaper
shots, you have to do so in a way that nobody will call you out on it.
There is a 10 minute retouch there that involves no plant duplication,
just a bill replacement. It is convincing and nobody will be the
wiser.

Or, even better, the original shot wasn't that bad anyway. Knowing
your paper's (and the industry's) distaste for altering images, maybe
jazzing up a bird festival shot isn't where you want to play that
card.
Apparently he played the card at least twice in the past, with the result that he has now been fired instead of "suspended pending investigation".

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/161983/sacramento-bee-fires-bryan-patrick-for-photo-manipulation/

The explanation by the newspaper:


In one image published in a photo gallery at sacbee.com in September of a lone person in a sunflower field, Patrick removed the shadow of his camera and arm from the photograph, inserting sunflowers in its place.
In a 2009 photograph of the Auburn wildfire that was published unaltered in the newspaper, Patrick subtly enlarged the flames in the photograph submitted for a winning entry to the San Francisco Bay Area Press Photographers Association annual contest. An anonymous email to The Bee late Thursday cast suspicion on that photograph.
The Bees ethics policy and style guide prohibit such alteration, saying, To maintain the credibility of The Sacramento Bee, documentary photographs will not be manipulated in any way that alters the reality of the image.
Since I called another newspaper's intelligence and ethics into question in the firing of another photographer in superficially similar circumstances, I would have to say that based on this explanation I think they did the right thing. And, unlike the other photographer, this one is not going to have the support of his colleagues. Cheating on contest entries is a good way to ensure that.

Dan Margulis


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

John Pavel
 

Here is a further case:

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/159412/washington-post-raises-eyebrows-with-composite-photo-on-front-page/

Is the use of HDR techniques acceptable in photojournalism? If the test is that the photo should contain only elements taken at the same time, the answer is "no", but even that test is not clear cut when some cameras can now create HDRs themselves.

John Pavel


Re: Another newspaper photo manipulation

Ron Kelly <ron@...>
 

Mike

I'm aware that some digital camera manufacturers have a system for evidence worthy
pictures, such as can be used in court. It's some type of software that assures that the capture has been unaltered.

I don't know how it works, but it's possible that such a system could be used for news
photos.

The problem, as I see it, is that if that were the case, there would be *no* alterations allowed,
ie color corrections, cropping, sharpening, etc, otherwise the "security software" can't validate
it.

I think we have to look at the examples we've seen in this discussion so far, and ask ourselves
if we'd prefer to have a system that would prevent any malfeasance at the cost of handcuffing
the creative process entirely.

I wouldn't prefer that scenario as a reader or photographer. Personally, I'm for asking people
to use good ethics, judgement, and to hold them accountable when we find that they haven't.
Roughly speaking, that is what's happening.

I wouldn't try to answer an ethical question with a technical fix. I just don't think it will work;
it will be possible to get around any system by those who have the money and the "means."


Ron Kelly

On 02-06-2012, at 12:37 AM, Mike Russell wrote:
And it is only a
very short length of time before we will start to see Humphrey Bogart in
modern settings that are undetectable from him actually being there. At
that point, we may turn to forensic chain of custody methods to ensure the
authenticity of an image, perhaps requiring that a digitally signed raw
file be kept on a protected server for images that are considered
important.

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