Date   
Re: Start of game Wrong Ball problem

Ron Humpherson
 

I had also asked Bob Green for his views and he concluded that the Red ball was not a misplaced ball but an outside agency:

Law 6 (c) Ball in Hand
(1) Any ball becomes a ball in hand and an outside agency:
(D) when it must be replaced in order to rectify an error or correct an interference.

Playing of Yellow was therefore a wrong ball play and Red should be placed on a baulk line.

On 2/04/2019 11:07 am, Tim Murphy wrote:
I agree with Alix and Jim.


Which then directs you to 27.f.

On Mon, 1 Apr. 2019, 09:40 Jim Nicholls, <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Agree with Alix.
After Player A incorrectly played Red onto the court, the Red ball should have been removed.
Leaving Red on the lawn at this point is incorrect placement of a ball (and perhaps also Player A mis-leading Player B)

Player B to play Red from a baulk line.


Jim Nicholls
 


On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 21:08, Alix Verge <alixverge@...> wrote:
I think nothing relieves player B of his obligation to play red onto the lawn in the 4th turn rather than striking yellow a second time so yellow to be returned to corner 4 and player B plays red onto the lawn from a baulk line ie the ball he should have played 4th turn. Just roll back to last legal stroke 



Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Humpherson <rafbim@...>
Date: 31/03/2019 8:48 pm (GMT+10:00)
Subject: [cnswplayers] Start of game Wrong Ball problem

At the Mosman AC tournament this weekend I was called to adjudicate on this situation at the start of the game

  1. Player A correctly plays Blue to East boundary
  2. Player B correctly plays Yellow to Corner 4

  3. Player A plays Red to West boundary and measures in

  4. Wrong ball called
  5. Player A places Black on baulk-line in Corner 3 but Red is left in place

  6. Player B shoots Yellow at Red, misses and measures in
  7. Wrong ball called
  8. Referee called
I ruled:
  1. Return Yellow to Corner 3
  2. Remove Red and place anywhere on baulk-lines
  3. Player A to continue
Was this correct? the discussion with other refs here was uncertain.

Ron





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Re: Start of game Wrong Ball problem

Alix Verge
 

Yes, that sounds good Ron and is probably correct. I thought afterwards of placing anywhere on baulk as penalty for forgetting to play it ..... That said, it is not being replaced but placed. Do you think that renders the clause inapplicable? (Probably not)



Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Humpherson <rafbim@...>
Date: 09/04/2019 3:35 pm (GMT+10:00)
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] Start of game Wrong Ball problem

I had also asked Bob Green for his views and he concluded that the Red ball was not a misplaced ball but an outside agency:

Law 6 (c) Ball in Hand
(1) Any ball becomes a ball in hand and an outside agency:
(D) when it must be replaced in order to rectify an error or correct an interference.

Playing of Yellow was therefore a wrong ball play and Red should be placed on a baulk line.

On 2/04/2019 11:07 am, Tim Murphy wrote:
I agree with Alix and Jim.


Which then directs you to 27.f.

On Mon, 1 Apr. 2019, 09:40 Jim Nicholls, <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Agree with Alix.
After Player A incorrectly played Red onto the court, the Red ball should have been removed.
Leaving Red on the lawn at this point is incorrect placement of a ball (and perhaps also Player A mis-leading Player B)

Player B to play Red from a baulk line.


Jim Nicholls
 


On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 21:08, Alix Verge <alixverge@...> wrote:
I think nothing relieves player B of his obligation to play red onto the lawn in the 4th turn rather than striking yellow a second time so yellow to be returned to corner 4 and player B plays red onto the lawn from a baulk line ie the ball he should have played 4th turn. Just roll back to last legal stroke 



Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Humpherson <rafbim@...>
Date: 31/03/2019 8:48 pm (GMT+10:00)
Subject: [cnswplayers] Start of game Wrong Ball problem

At the Mosman AC tournament this weekend I was called to adjudicate on this situation at the start of the game

  1. Player A correctly plays Blue to East boundary
  2. Player B correctly plays Yellow to Corner 4

  3. Player A plays Red to West boundary and measures in

  4. Wrong ball called
  5. Player A places Black on baulk-line in Corner 3 but Red is left in place

  6. Player B shoots Yellow at Red, misses and measures in
  7. Wrong ball called
  8. Referee called
I ruled:
  1. Return Yellow to Corner 3
  2. Remove Red and place anywhere on baulk-lines
  3. Player A to continue
Was this correct? the discussion with other refs here was uncertain.

Ron





Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Start of game Wrong Ball problem

 

I believe red had stopped being an outside agency.

6.c.4

A ball ceases to be a ball in hand and an outside agency and becomes a ball at rest when it is placed in a lawful position on the court or, if left on the court in a misplaced position, at the start of the next stroke


On Tue, 9 Apr. 2019, 15:35 Ron Humpherson, <rafbim@...> wrote:

I had also asked Bob Green for his views and he concluded that the Red ball was not a misplaced ball but an outside agency:

Law 6 (c) Ball in Hand
(1) Any ball becomes a ball in hand and an outside agency:
(D) when it must be replaced in order to rectify an error or correct an interference.

Playing of Yellow was therefore a wrong ball play and Red should be placed on a baulk line.

On 2/04/2019 11:07 am, Tim Murphy wrote:
I agree with Alix and Jim.


Which then directs you to 27.f.

On Mon, 1 Apr. 2019, 09:40 Jim Nicholls, <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Agree with Alix.
After Player A incorrectly played Red onto the court, the Red ball should have been removed.
Leaving Red on the lawn at this point is incorrect placement of a ball (and perhaps also Player A mis-leading Player B)

Player B to play Red from a baulk line.


Jim Nicholls
 


On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 21:08, Alix Verge <alixverge@...> wrote:
I think nothing relieves player B of his obligation to play red onto the lawn in the 4th turn rather than striking yellow a second time so yellow to be returned to corner 4 and player B plays red onto the lawn from a baulk line ie the ball he should have played 4th turn. Just roll back to last legal stroke 



Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Humpherson <rafbim@...>
Date: 31/03/2019 8:48 pm (GMT+10:00)
Subject: [cnswplayers] Start of game Wrong Ball problem

At the Mosman AC tournament this weekend I was called to adjudicate on this situation at the start of the game

  1. Player A correctly plays Blue to East boundary
  2. Player B correctly plays Yellow to Corner 4

  3. Player A plays Red to West boundary and measures in

  4. Wrong ball called
  5. Player A places Black on baulk-line in Corner 3 but Red is left in place

  6. Player B shoots Yellow at Red, misses and measures in
  7. Wrong ball called
  8. Referee called
I ruled:
  1. Return Yellow to Corner 3
  2. Remove Red and place anywhere on baulk-lines
  3. Player A to continue
Was this correct? the discussion with other refs here was uncertain.

Ron





Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Start of game Wrong Ball problem

 

Not an easy one so I referred to ACA top referees - Mike Cohn & Liz Fleming.
response below


Elizabeth Fleming 

07:48 (33 minutes ago)
to Mikeme
Hi Mike,

As a ruling referee or preferably the TR I would have wanted to quiz the players further before giving a definite ruling.
 
The wrong ball error in the third turn has been claimed and partially rectified, but with R left in a misplaced position (on the court when it should not be).  I would therefore treat that error as having been dealt with, though I would want to know why R was left on the court and that would influence my final decision.
 
A wrong-ball error has been committed on the fourth turn and claimed, so in theory it needs to be rectified.  Y would be returned to corner IV and R must then be placed somewhere on baulk.  End of turn.  That looks like the solution, but I am not convinced it is the proper answer.

As TR I would have very serious questions I would require the answers to:
Why was R left in a misplaced position at the end of turn 3?  This is an error under Law 27(i) and if R was left there deliberately, the player is liable for punishment for having deliberately committed an error, though it doesn’t otherwise influence what was done in turn 3.  Was R left there deliberately for the purpose of deceiving the opponent?  We cannot know, and I don’t think my solution depends on knowing. 

If R was left there accidentally, because the player did not understand the wrong ball law properly, then R has been left in a misplaced position by the opponent.  It looks as though the player of R and Y could claim to have been misled either by the misplacement of a ball (but has R suffered interference?) or by false information supplied by the opponent (but does leaving a ball on the court when it should not be there constitute false information about the state of the game?).

Without being on sight at the time (and assuming this is not some made-up scenario for training purposes by an over enthusiastic individual) I think I would rule that whatever the reason the third turn player left R improperly on the lawn, that has misled the player of the fourth turn.  Whether 31(a)(2) or 31(a)(3) applies, or neither applies and I have to invoke Law 55 to argue by analogy, I would allow the player of the fourth turn a replay, taking R off the lawn and playing it into the game properly.

I think it is extremely important that whoever goes back to review this question, the point needs to be covered that the opponent knowing that R was misplaced and being obliged to do something about it; that by failing to do so leaves the player open to penalty.

Regards,
Liz

Aus. Rep. WCF.AC.LC 
Elizabeth Fleming
I
MPORTANT: This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential, private or legally privileged information and may be protected by copyright. You may only use it if you are the person(s) it was intended to be sent to and use it in an authorised way. No one else is allowed to use, review, alter, transmit, disclose, distribute, print or copy this e-mail without the appropriate authority. If this e-mail was not intended for you and was sent to you by mistake, please telephone or email me immediately, destroy any hard copies of this e-mail and delete it and any copies of it from your computer system. Any legal privilege and confidentiality attached to this e-mail is not waived or destroyed by that mistake. It is your responsibility to ensure that this e-mail does not contain and is not affected by computer viruses, defects or interference by third parties or replication problems (including incompatibility with your computer system).



 


On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 17:43, Tim Murphy <croquetscores@...> wrote:
I believe red had stopped being an outside agency.

6.c.4

A ball ceases to be a ball in hand and an outside agency and becomes a ball at rest when it is placed in a lawful position on the court or, if left on the court in a misplaced position, at the start of the next stroke

On Tue, 9 Apr. 2019, 15:35 Ron Humpherson, <rafbim@...> wrote:

I had also asked Bob Green for his views and he concluded that the Red ball was not a misplaced ball but an outside agency:

Law 6 (c) Ball in Hand
(1) Any ball becomes a ball in hand and an outside agency:
(D) when it must be replaced in order to rectify an error or correct an interference.

Playing of Yellow was therefore a wrong ball play and Red should be placed on a baulk line.

On 2/04/2019 11:07 am, Tim Murphy wrote:
I agree with Alix and Jim.


Which then directs you to 27.f.

On Mon, 1 Apr. 2019, 09:40 Jim Nicholls, <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Agree with Alix.
After Player A incorrectly played Red onto the court, the Red ball should have been removed.
Leaving Red on the lawn at this point is incorrect placement of a ball (and perhaps also Player A mis-leading Player B)

Player B to play Red from a baulk line.


Jim Nicholls
 


On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 21:08, Alix Verge <alixverge@...> wrote:
I think nothing relieves player B of his obligation to play red onto the lawn in the 4th turn rather than striking yellow a second time so yellow to be returned to corner 4 and player B plays red onto the lawn from a baulk line ie the ball he should have played 4th turn. Just roll back to last legal stroke 



Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Humpherson <rafbim@...>
Date: 31/03/2019 8:48 pm (GMT+10:00)
Subject: [cnswplayers] Start of game Wrong Ball problem

At the Mosman AC tournament this weekend I was called to adjudicate on this situation at the start of the game

  1. Player A correctly plays Blue to East boundary
  2. Player B correctly plays Yellow to Corner 4

  3. Player A plays Red to West boundary and measures in

  4. Wrong ball called
  5. Player A places Black on baulk-line in Corner 3 but Red is left in place

  6. Player B shoots Yellow at Red, misses and measures in
  7. Wrong ball called
  8. Referee called
I ruled:
  1. Return Yellow to Corner 3
  2. Remove Red and place anywhere on baulk-lines
  3. Player A to continue
Was this correct? the discussion with other refs here was uncertain.

Ron





Virus-free. www.avast.com

2019 Aust AC Patron's Trophy

Peter Freer
 

One of Australia’s premier Association Croquet events is on again, on the June long weekend at Wynnum in Brisbane.

 

The flier is attached – entries close on Thursday 30 May (midnight WA time)

 

Regards, peter

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

Re: 2019 Aust AC Patron's Trophy

Roberta Flint
 

Who is the ACA Patron Peter?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 8:29 pm, Peter Freer <pfreer@...> wrote:

One of Australia’s premier Association Croquet events is on again, on the June long weekend at Wynnum in Brisbane.

 

The flier is attached – entries close on Thursday 30 May (midnight WA time)

 

Regards, peter

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

Re: 2019 Aust AC Patron's Trophy

Peter Freer
 

Roberta – that is another of the ironies of croquet.  The Governor-General had been the ACA Patron, but the incoming one several versions back declined to renew the relationship; at about the same time we initiated the Patron’s Trophy and invited him to donate it.  The event has continued since despite this, because it is now known as that, but probably should be re-named at some stage…..

 

Regards, peter

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

Re: 2019 Aust AC Patron's Trophy

Alix Verge
 

At the ISS in Newcastle last September David Hurley and his wife expressed genuine interest in taking up croquet when his term as NSW Governor expired. It sounds to me as if it’s the perfect time attempt to re-establish the GG patronage.

Alix.

 

From: cnswplayers@groups.io <cnswplayers@groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Freer
Sent: 8 May, 2019 6:05 PM
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] 2019 Aust AC Patron's Trophy

 

Roberta – that is another of the ironies of croquet.  The Governor-General had been the ACA Patron, but the incoming one several versions back declined to renew the relationship; at about the same time we initiated the Patron’s Trophy and invited him to donate it.  The event has continued since despite this, because it is now known as that, but probably should be re-named at some stage…..

 

Regards, peter

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

AC Selection Committee

 

The CNSW Association Croquet Selection Committee (ACSC) requires two (2) additional committee members to bring it up to full strength. CNSW and the committee is therefore interested in receiving Expressions of Interest from members who might be interested in joining the committee. Committee members do not need to be elite AC players but do need to be comfortable in following the CNSW Selection Policy and making decisions. The term of the appointment is for 2 years and up to three (3) consecutive terms can be served. The current members of the ACSC are all mid-term. Interested members should contact the CNSW Secretary.

Newsletter Editor

 

CNSW has a need for a Newsletter Editor to replace Wendy Fothergill who has recently stepped down from the role. As the attached flyer informs, the incoming Editor will be able to assist CNSW in determining the future direction of the Newsletter.

Re: AC Selection Committee

Barb Piggott
 

Hi Steve
I would like to submit an EOI for the ACSC, however it would be dependent on the outcome of the recent tribunal, especially if two of the current members of the Committee are forced to resign. 
Cheers
Barb Piggott 



On 13 May 2019, at 11:25, Steve Thornton <sthornton54@...> wrote:

The CNSW Association Croquet Selection Committee (ACSC) requires two (2) additional committee members to bring it up to full strength. CNSW and the committee is therefore interested in receiving Expressions of Interest from members who might be interested in joining the committee. Committee members do not need to be elite AC players but do need to be comfortable in following the CNSW Selection Policy and making decisions. The term of the appointment is for 2 years and up to three (3) consecutive terms can be served. The current members of the ACSC are all mid-term. Interested members should contact the CNSW Secretary.

Any info on Contractors who can construct croquet lawns

 

Milton Ulladulla Croquet Club is working with their local Council to construct a new croquet facility and hope to issue tenders in the near future. They are looking for any information about contractors that have been used to construct courts.

Minutes of ACA Board Meetings

 

The ACA have advised that minutes of ACA Board Meetings are now available on their website https://croquet-australia.com.au/information/#Board A link will be provided on the CNSW Website. 

Aust GC Handicap Champs - Albury 30 Sept-4 Oct 2019

Peter Freer
 

Twin City Club at Albury is the host of the 2019 Aust GC Handicap Champs in early October. 
This follows the NSW GC Handicap Champs at Canberra, in late Sept.

 

The flier for the Aust events is attached.

 

Entry is by email to me, due to some problems on the ACA website.  Closing date for entry is Thurs 12 Sept, but earlier the better!

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

Aust GC Women's/Men's Singles Champs - Melb 7-10 Sept 2019

Peter Freer
 

Entry for both the Australian Men’s/Women’s GC Singles remains open until Friday 9 August (midnight WA time), but earlier the better!

 

The flier for these events is attached - pls note the bit about how to enter, and the warning that PayPal probably isn’t working (if so, don’t re-do another entry!!).

 

Please also note that the Tournament Dinner is on Tues 10 Sept, not Sunday 15 Sept – book & pay via VCA, not ACA.

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

2019 President's AC EIGHTS - EoI by 30 Aug

Peter Freer
 

Croquet Australia is calling for Expressions of Interest for the 2019 AC President’s Eights.

All interested players are asked to submit an expression of interest via email to the AC Chairman of Selectors, Anne Quinn might.e.quinn@...

Event Details – President’s AC Eights

Dates – Friday 11 to Monday 14 October, 2019

Venue – Victorian Croquet Centre, Cairnlea

Closing Date for Expressions of Interest – Friday 30 August, 2019

 

Aust GC Women's/Men's Singles Champs - Melb 7-10 Sept 2019

Peter Freer
 

Just a reminder that entry for both the Australian Men’s/Women’s GC Singles closes this Friday 9 August (midnight WA time)!

 

Please also note that the Tournament Dinner is on Tues 10 Sept, not Sunday 15 Sept – book & pay via VCA, not ACA.

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

ACA Events

0412 178 254

 

Aust AC Open Champs - Melb 16-24 Nov 2019

Peter Freer
 

Entry for the Australian Open AC Doubles & Singles is open until Thursday 31 October (midnight WA time), but earlier the better!

 

The flier for these events is attached - pls note the bit about how to enter, and the warning that PayPal probably isn’t working (if so, don’t re-do another entry!!).

 

Regards, peter

ACA Events

0412 178 254

2019 CNSW GC Handicap Singles & Doubles at Canberra - billets

Peter Freer
 

Canberra Croquet Club is hosting the 2019 CNSW GC Handicap singles and doubles events.

The doubles will be held on 18-19 September, and the singles on 20-22 September.

Entries close on 6 Sept - enter via the CNSW website.

Clubs have been circulated with the attached promotional flier for the event, but we can now offer some billets for those needing accommodation.

If you would like a billet, please contact Kate McLoughlin on kmcl1455@...

Regards, peter

0412 178 254

Re: 2019 CNSW GC Handicap Singles & Doubles at Canberra - billets

Pauline Markwell
 

Hi Peter
Thanks and would have loved to enter but will be away.

I am sorry to have to defer dinner invitation tonight as have stayed at Thredbo. I hope you received message on Kate's mob.

Snow at football in Canberra last night I read! The wind is in Sydney according to my daughter. 

Cheers Pauline 



On Fri, 9 Aug. 2019, 22:18 Peter Freer, <pfreer@...> wrote:

Canberra Croquet Club is hosting the 2019 CNSW GC Handicap singles and doubles events.

The doubles will be held on 18-19 September, and the singles on 20-22 September.

Entries close on 6 Sept - enter via the CNSW website.

Clubs have been circulated with the attached promotional flier for the event, but we can now offer some billets for those needing accommodation.

If you would like a billet, please contact Kate McLoughlin on kmcl1455@...

Regards, peter

0412 178 254