Date   
Re: New handicaps for GC

Brenda Evans <Brenda@...>
 

Hi Steve,

Thank you. I agree that ACA should provide the answers but I also think that CNSW should be asking the questions and chasing ACA for answers.
However, of particular concern at the moment is the CNSW pennants series for which the closing date is advertised as 1st March, with div 2 and 3 scheduled to commence on 13th March and finals after the 3rd April introduction of the new rules.

Therefore, we need, as a matter of urgency, answers to the following:
  • What are the handicap ranges for the new divisions and how many divisions will there be?
  • In January 2014,  a rule was introduced, whereby players on handicaps of 10, 11 and 12 would not lose index points after losing a game. There is no indication whether this rule will continue or be rescinded.
Will there be a meeting of the CNSW Board during January?  I note that a meeting of the ACA Board is scheduled for 19 January.

I look forward to a speedy response from our governing bodies, so that Golf Croquet players may plan the year ahead with confidence, knowing that the rule changes for handicaps have been clarified and justified.

Best wishes
Brenda Evans




On 31/12/2016 10:08 AM, Steve Thornton wrote:
Brenda,

As it is the ACA who are "in charge" of "and responsible for" the introduction of the new system. The (good) questions you have asked are probably being asked by other states and should be answered directly by the ACA. The worse thing that could happen is that CNSW or any other state association issues any form of statement or ruling and gets it wrong. FYI there were no real problems when it was introduced in the UK (I was there when it was both in 2015 when it was being trialled in 2016 shortly after it was introduced).

Regards
Steve Thornton
CNSW

On 30 December 2016 at 20:46, Jimbo <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Brenda
I would suggest that you email your concerns to the CNSW board as many of the questions require official response.

Jim



On 22 Dec 2016 11:28 PM, "Brenda Evans" <Brenda@...> wrote:
Hello All,

Having read the information (available on the ACA website) defining the new Handicap system for Golf Croquet, I have the following concerns/questions:

1.     With the current system, players on handicaps of 10, 11 and 12 do not lose index points. Will a similar rule apply to the new system? If so, for what handicap range?

2.     Currently there are 3 grades of players -     
        division 1 (handicaps 0 to 4)
        division 2 (handicaps 5 to 8)
        division 3 (handicaps 9 to 12)
How many grades will there be in the new system and what will be the handicap ranges?
3.        The CNSW Events page is advertising pennants and championship events  with closing dates prior to the introduction of the new rules, starting before that date and
            continuing after the date (e.g. divisions 2 and 3 pennants) When will the information (mentioned in point 2) be made available?

4.        The instruction for the Setting of Initial Handicaps gives a system to allocate handicaps ranging from 7 to 16. Why, then, are there handicaps of 18 and 20?
            How does one "achieve" a handicap of 18 or 20 ? What happenned to handicaps of 13, 15, 17 and 19?

5.        When will the new handicap cards be available, both physically and on line, for download?

6.        When this system was being trialled in UK, it was stated that handicaps would not change during an event. Why is this not included by ACA? This, in particular, 
            would eliminate the situation where, in a match of the best of 3 games, both players reach a trigger point (the winner improving his handicap and the loser moving to a
            poorer handicap) and then the loser of that game wins the next 2 games, thus winning the match. This means that the person who loses the match has
            improved his handicap and the winner of the match has "gone backwards". It is interessting to note the following found on www.croquet.org.uk

Handicap changes do not necessarily become effective immediately. They only become effective at the end of the tournament if it is a CA Calendar Fixture or any other tournament lasting no more than four days. In all other cases handicap changes become effective at the end of the day. If a player's index goes through a trigger point and then goes back through the same trigger point during the tournament or day, their handicap does not change.

I look forward to receiving clarification of these points.

Brenda Evans


Re: New handicaps for GC

Len McCallum
 

Steve thanks for your letter.
i agree with what  you say but t feel the CNSW
get it all ok for all of us to play . 


On Saturday, 7 January 2017, 10:10, Brenda Evans <Brenda@...> wrote:


Hi Steve,

Thank you. I agree that ACA should provide the answers but I also think that CNSW should be asking the questions and chasing ACA for answers.
However, of particular concern at the moment is the CNSW pennants series for which the closing date is advertised as 1st March, with div 2 and 3 scheduled to commence on 13th March and finals after the 3rd April introduction of the new rules.

Therefore, we need, as a matter of urgency, answers to the following:
  • What are the handicap ranges for the new divisions and how many divisions will there be?
  • In January 2014,  a rule was introduced, whereby players on handicaps of 10, 11 and 12 would not lose index points after losing a game. There is no indication whether this rule will continue or be rescinded.
Will there be a meeting of the CNSW Board during January?  I note that a meeting of the ACA Board is scheduled for 19 January.

I look forward to a speedy response from our governing bodies, so that Golf Croquet players may plan the year ahead with confidence, knowing that the rule changes for handicaps have been clarified and justified.

Best wishes
Brenda Evans




On 31/12/2016 10:08 AM, Steve Thornton wrote:
Brenda,

As it is the ACA who are "in charge" of "and responsible for" the introduction of the new system. The (good) questions you have asked are probably being asked by other states and should be answered directly by the ACA. The worse thing that could happen is that CNSW or any other state association issues any form of statement or ruling and gets it wrong. FYI there were no real problems when it was introduced in the UK (I was there when it was both in 2015 when it was being trialled in 2016 shortly after it was introduced).

Regards
Steve Thornton
CNSW

On 30 December 2016 at 20:46, Jimbo <jimbo.croquet@...> wrote:
Brenda
I would suggest that you email your concerns to the CNSW board as many of the questions require official response.

Jim



On 22 Dec 2016 11:28 PM, "Brenda Evans" <Brenda@...> wrote:
Hello All,

Having read the information (available on the ACA website) defining the new Handicap system for Golf Croquet, I have the following concerns/questions:

1.     With the current system, players on handicaps of 10, 11 and 12 do not lose index points. Will a similar rule apply to the new system? If so, for what handicap range?

2.     Currently there are 3 grades of players -     
        division 1 (handicaps 0 to 4)
        division 2 (handicaps 5 to 8)
        division 3 (handicaps 9 to 12)
How many grades will there be in the new system and what will be the handicap ranges?
3.        The CNSW Events page is advertising pennants and championship events  with closing dates prior to the introduction of the new rules, starting before that date and
            continuing after the date (e.g. divisions 2 and 3 pennants) When will the information (mentioned in point 2) be made available?

4.        The instruction for the Setting of Initial Handicaps gives a system to allocate handicaps ranging from 7 to 16. Why, then, are there handicaps of 18 and 20?
            How does one "achieve" a handicap of 18 or 20 ? What happenned to handicaps of 13, 15, 17 and 19?

5.        When will the new handicap cards be available, both physically and on line, for download?

6.        When this system was being trialled in UK, it was stated that handicaps would not change during an event. Why is this not included by ACA? This, in particular, 
            would eliminate the situation where, in a match of the best of 3 games, both players reach a trigger point (the winner improving his handicap and the loser moving to a
            poorer handicap) and then the loser of that game wins the next 2 games, thus winning the match. This means that the person who loses the match has
            improved his handicap and the winner of the match has "gone backwards". It is interessting to note the following found on www.croquet.org.uk
Handicap changes do not necessarily become effective immediately. They only become effective at the end of the tournament if it is a CA Calendar Fixture or any other tournament lasting no more than four days. In all other cases handicap changes become effective at the end of the day. If a player's index goes through a trigger point and then goes back through the same trigger point during the tournament or day, their handicap does not change.
I look forward to receiving clarification of these points.

Brenda Evans




Re: New handicaps for GC

Peter Freer
 

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:

·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);

·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and

·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

Canberra CC

0412 178 254

 

Re: New handicaps for GC

Jan Sage
 

Where and when will the new Golf Croquet handicap cards be available to clubs and players?

The New Golf Croquet Handicapping System - effective 3 April, 2017

Note - new Handicap cards will be printed by the ACA and distributed to State Associations by the end of November

 

Jan Sage
Captain, Taree Croquet Club
 

Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] New handicaps for GC
 

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:

·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);

·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and

·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

Canberra CC

0412 178 254

 



Re: New handicaps for GC

Mary Gibson
 

Peter et al

Why the complicated Divisions with minuses.  Why can't we extend ranges from 1 (without having to go into minus mode).  We should have 4 divisions - 1 to 16.  The bottom division (13-16) should be encouraged to experience a competition (we could hold it at Mosman as we have a lot of new members).  

Regards

Mary Gibson
Secretary
 Mosman

On 09/01/2017, at 9:27 PM, Peter Freer wrote:

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:
·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);
·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and
·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…
 
Regards, peter
 
Peter Freer
Canberra CC
0412 178 254
 

Re: New handicaps for GC

JOHN BURGESS
 

I believe this brings us into line with other countries and a standard needs to be maintained or would be very confusing for those who compete at higher levels.

Jenny

Woolgoola

 

From: cnswplayers@groups.io [mailto:cnswplayers@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Gibson
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:07 PM
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] New handicaps for GC

 

Peter et al

 

Why the complicated Divisions with minuses.  Why can't we extend ranges from 1 (without having to go into minus mode).  We should have 4 divisions - 1 to 16.  The bottom division (13-16) should be encouraged to experience a competition (we could hold it at Mosman as we have a lot of new members).  

 

Regards

 

Mary Gibson

Secretary

 Mosman

 

On 09/01/2017, at 9:27 PM, Peter Freer wrote:



Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:

·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);

·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and

·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…

 

Regards, peter

 

Peter Freer

Canberra CC

0412 178 254

 

 

Re: New handicaps for GC

 

Hello people out there in croquet land,

Just to refresh the message I sent a couple of days ago and add other points:
  • CNSW will issue an information bulletin within a couple of days,
  • The ACA is introducing a system which is successful in the UK and will become the worldwide norm.
  • The levels below 12 are even only. This is consistent with AC handicapping.
  • The vast majority of players will see no handicap change.
  • There are very few Australian players who will move beyond -1.
  • Peter Freer's commentary on Division is accurate. 
  • As is currently the case, handicap changes will continue to occur once a trigger points has been reached.
  • The current system of no change below a handicap of 10 or index of 100 is being withdrawn by the ACA.
  • CNSW has advised members that from 31st October 2016, if a member has more than 1 handicap card, then CNSW will only recognise the handicap card showing the lowest handicap.
We've been assured that the ACA will provide resource material and new handicap cards in plenty of time.

Regards
Steve Thornton

On 10 January 2017 at 18:06, Mary Gibson <mpagibson@...> wrote:
Peter et al

Why the complicated Divisions with minuses.  Why can't we extend ranges from 1 (without having to go into minus mode).  We should have 4 divisions - 1 to 16.  The bottom division (13-16) should be encouraged to experience a competition (we could hold it at Mosman as we have a lot of new members).  

Regards

Mary Gibson
Secretary
 Mosman

On 09/01/2017, at 9:27 PM, Peter Freer wrote:

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:
·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);
·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and
·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…
 
Regards, peter
 
Peter Freer
Canberra CC
 


Re: New handicaps for GC

Peter Smith
 

As far as I can see Peter, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I assume the CNSW tournament committee will advise us of the make-up of the divisions. Personally I liked the idea of players above 10 not losing points in play but its not in the rules so there it goes.
Not being the world's most advanced mathematician, I assume the "two steps" involved from 12 up has something to do with making the whole range sound great but not doing much at all. While I'm at it why have the minus numbers ? Surely these clever people who devised the scheme, could have made the scale suit 0 to 20 properly with all numerals in that range included. There ! I've said it and most probably put my big foot right in the middle of where it should not be. I dare say I am not the only one thinking that.  THE MAIN THING IS THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM and we need to support it fully. So we all will need to just shrug off those silly questions and prepare to adopt it fully.
Peter Smith

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: New handicaps for GC
From: "Peter Freer" <pfreer@...>
Date: Mon, January 09, 2017 10:27 am
To: <cnswplayers@groups.io>
Cc: <national.handicapper@...>,
<handicaps@...>

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:
·         there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);
·         everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and
·         I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…
 
Regards, peter
 
Peter Freer
Canberra CC
0412 178 254
 

Re: New handicaps for GC

Jan Sage
 

I’m not sure we should blindly follow a SYSTEM that could be improved.
“The only silly question is the one that you do not ask”.
Jan Sage
 

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] New handicaps for GC
 
As far as I can see Peter, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I assume the CNSW tournament committee will advise us of the make-up of the divisions. Personally I liked the idea of players above 10 not losing points in play but its not in the rules so there it goes.
Not being the world's most advanced mathematician, I assume the "two steps" involved from 12 up has something to do with making the whole range sound great but not doing much at all. While I'm at it why have the minus numbers ? Surely these clever people who devised the scheme, could have made the scale suit 0 to 20 properly with all numerals in that range included. There ! I've said it and most probably put my big foot right in the middle of where it should not be. I dare say I am not the only one thinking that.  THE MAIN THING IS THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM and we need to support it fully. So we all will need to just shrug off those silly questions and prepare to adopt it fully.
Peter Smith
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: New handicaps for GC
From: "Peter Freer" <pfreer@...>
Date: Mon, January 09, 2017 10:27 am
To: <cnswplayers@groups.io>
Cc: <national.handicapper@...>,
<handicaps@...>

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…
 
Regards, peter
 
Peter Freer
Canberra CC
0412 178 254
 


Re: New handicaps for GC

 

Hi Jan,

I agree with you.  I have a mathematical background but I cannot see a lot of logic in this new system.  Also, when introducing a new system it would be nice if there was some better explanation of why it was changed.  eg if it was thought to be a good idea for players on handicaps of10 and greater not to lose index points when they lost a game, why has this been changed?  Has there been some analysis to determine that the previous system was not working?  If so, how about giving us an explanation.

One of my beefs with the handicap system is that, in terms of index points won or lost, there is no differentiation between a 7/6 win and a 7/1 or 7/0 win.  In my experience a 7/6 win or lose means that the two players are virtually equal and so shouldn't win or lose as many index points as they would with a 7/1 or 7/0 win.  It would not be difficult to include the winning margin (eg net points) into the index point calculation but I don't know whether this has been considered.

Any system can be improved and, although, as Peter(s) indicate, we will have to support this new system, I doesn't seem to be a 'perfect' system and so we should be able to suggest improvements.  I intend to be one of those who continues to ask 'silly' questions.

Cheers

Roger Evans


On 13/01/2017 6:48 AM, Jan Sage wrote:
I’m not sure we should blindly follow a SYSTEM that could be improved.
“The only silly question is the one that you do not ask”.
Jan Sage
 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [cnswplayers] New handicaps for GC
 
As far as I can see Peter, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I assume the CNSW tournament committee will advise us of the make-up of the divisions. Personally I liked the idea of players above 10 not losing points in play but its not in the rules so there it goes.
Not being the world's most advanced mathematician, I assume the "two steps" involved from 12 up has something to do with making the whole range sound great but not doing much at all. While I'm at it why have the minus numbers ? Surely these clever people who devised the scheme, could have made the scale suit 0 to 20 properly with all numerals in that range included. There ! I've said it and most probably put my big foot right in the middle of where it should not be. I dare say I am not the only one thinking that.  THE MAIN THING IS THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM and we need to support it fully. So we all will need to just shrug off those silly questions and prepare to adopt it fully.
Peter Smith
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: New handicaps for GC
From: "Peter Freer" <pfreer@...>
Date: Mon, January 09, 2017 10:27 am
To: <cnswplayers@groups.io>
Cc: <national.handicapper@...>,
<handicaps@...>

Brenda et al – my reading of the revised Rule 16 that will apply from 3 April 2017 (see: https://croquet-australia.com.au/disciplines/golf-croquet/resources/gc-rule16-australian-version.pdf ) is that:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->there are no GC handicaps of 13, 15, 17 or 19 – the steps below 12 are in multiples of 2, so you go from 12 to 14, and 14 to 16 (see the revised trigger points on p4);
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->everyone will now gain or lose points, including at either end of the range (which explains how someone might drop to 14 or 16); and
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->I gather that CNSW is likely to stick to the 3 existing GC Divisions ie Div 1 would now be -3 to 4; Div 2 stays 5 to 8; and Div 3 is 9 or higher (I suggest that anyone on more than GC 12 shouldn’t be playing GC Pennants until their handicap improves).  No doubt CNSW will confirm this before the 2017 GC Pennants entry closes…
 
Regards, peter
 
Peter Freer
Canberra CC
0412 178 254
 



Re: New handicaps for GC

Judy McCumstie
 

Hello everyone
Some extra thoughts on the new handicap system
Judy McCumstie
Jamberoo

Re: Wonderland

Wal Mills
 

Ah Yes, I remember, Queen of Hearts played there.
It's another variation for us to look at.
Not that I'm saying I agree nor disagree with the new system as it stands.
I tried to get ACA and CNSW to introduce a greater handicap range in 2013, but hit a brick wall.
Took the Pom's to get the ball rolling and good to see some action at last.
Wal


On 13/01/2017 7:26 PM, Judy McCumstie wrote:
Hello everyone
Some extra thoughts on the new handicap system
Judy McCumstie
Jamberoo
_._,_._,_



Re: Wonderland

 

Interesting range of comments. From what I can gather, and I was in the UK last year playing under the new system, there have been no problems with the new system in the UK and it has been welcomed because it more aligns with the handicap range in AC. All the State Associations agreed with the ACA adopting the new system so best get used to it as musing about the possibility of tweaking it probably won't get much support. Portraying this as some Alice in Wonderland fantasy denigrates the work that people in the UK did over several years. 

On 13 January 2017 at 21:15, Wal Mills <walm@...> wrote:
Ah Yes, I remember, Queen of Hearts played there.
It's another variation for us to look at.
Not that I'm saying I agree nor disagree with the new system as it stands.
I tried to get ACA and CNSW to introduce a greater handicap range in 2013, but hit a brick wall.
Took the Pom's to get the ball rolling and good to see some action at last.
Wal


On 13/01/2017 7:26 PM, Judy McCumstie wrote:
Hello everyone
Some extra thoughts on the new handicap system
Judy McCumstie
Jamberoo


Re: Wonderland

Judy McCumstie
 

HelloSteve
Thank you for your reply. Actually I would really most like to know when details of the new system will reach the level of clubs. Also when will new handicap cards reach us?
From what we hear the system has already worked well in England. What we need here is the material to implement it at the local NSW club level.
Anything you could do to expedite this would certainly be appreciated.
Judy McCumstie

On 15 Jan 2017 11:16 pm, "Steve Thornton" <sthornton54@...> wrote:
Interesting range of comments. From what I can gather, and I was in the UK last year playing under the new system, there have been no problems with the new system in the UK and it has been welcomed because it more aligns with the handicap range in AC. All the State Associations agreed with the ACA adopting the new system so best get used to it as musing about the possibility of tweaking it probably won't get much support. Portraying this as some Alice in Wonderland fantasy denigrates the work that people in the UK did over several years. 

On 13 January 2017 at 21:15, Wal Mills <walm@...> wrote:
Ah Yes, I remember, Queen of Hearts played there.
It's another variation for us to look at.
Not that I'm saying I agree nor disagree with the new system as it stands.
I tried to get ACA and CNSW to introduce a greater handicap range in 2013, but hit a brick wall.
Took the Pom's to get the ball rolling and good to see some action at last.
Wal


On 13/01/2017 7:26 PM, Judy McCumstie wrote:
Hello everyone
Some extra thoughts on the new handicap system
Judy McCumstie
Jamberoo


Turf Management

 

Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer growing season. According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is enhanced. The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought, diseases and traffic. It almost sounds too good to be true. See: http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking should last longer. It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club

Re: Turf Management

Judy McCumstie
 

Hi Roger,
This stuff certainly sounds a magic brew! It will be interesting to aee if any other  roquet peop.e have used it.
Judy

Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Evans <rfkevans@...>
Date: 29/01/2017 12:01 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Subject: [cnswplayers] Turf Management

Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply
a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer
growing season.  According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx
slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is
enhanced.  The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is
better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought,
diseases and traffic.  It almost sounds too good to be true. See:
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo
Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking
should last longer.  It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through
the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting
quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be
interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the
claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club




Re: Turf Management

Alix Verge
 

Hi Roger,

I asked my chief groundsman at RSGC and he said Primo is a fabulous product that is widely used here and on most golf courses Sept to March. They do NOT use it in areas of high wear eg grass tennis courts and bowling greens as it inhibits regrowth too much but on feature lawns and surrounds of these areas they spray 750mm per hectare ..... but it can be diluted further to 300 per hectare and still have very noticeable effect. For lower concentrations they do not use iron fertilizer in the mix but do for the stronger because the downside is loss of colour - and lack of regrowth in high wear areas like corner 4 and rabbit runs. I asked if one could simply spray AROUND these areas but got only a non-committal nod ..... i think they operate over such large areas here that missing small patches to order is not in their mental agenda.

I hope this helps,

Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Evans <rfkevans@...>
Date:29/01/2017 12:01 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Cc:
Subject: [cnswplayers] Turf Management

Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply
a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer
growing season.  According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx
slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is
enhanced.  The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is
better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought,
diseases and traffic.  It almost sounds too good to be true. See:
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo
Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking
should last longer.  It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through
the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting
quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be
interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the
claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club




Re: Turf Management

John Eddes
 

Roger,

The green keeper at Tempe uses this product during the rapid growing season particularly and was probably applying the second application this summer today. He agrees with the claimed benefits and these are evident at Tempe although reducing rabbit runs is a bit problematic. I  do not know the dilution he uses. It reduces frequency of mowing and reduces cut grass that in some clubs is difficult to dispose of.

If you wish to talk to our green keeper let me know.

John Eddes


On 30/01/2017 11:16 AM, Alix Verge wrote:
Hi Roger,

I asked my chief groundsman at RSGC and he said Primo is a fabulous product that is widely used here and on most golf courses Sept to March. They do NOT use it in areas of high wear eg grass tennis courts and bowling greens as it inhibits regrowth too much but on feature lawns and surrounds of these areas they spray 750mm per hectare ..... but it can be diluted further to 300 per hectare and still have very noticeable effect. For lower concentrations they do not use iron fertilizer in the mix but do for the stronger because the downside is loss of colour - and lack of regrowth in high wear areas like corner 4 and rabbit runs. I asked if one could simply spray AROUND these areas but got only a non-committal nod ..... i think they operate over such large areas here that missing small patches to order is not in their mental agenda.

I hope this helps,

Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Evans <rfkevans@...>
Date:29/01/2017 12:01 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Cc:
Subject: [cnswplayers] Turf Management

Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply
a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer
growing season.  According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx
slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is
enhanced.  The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is
better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought,
diseases and traffic.  It almost sounds too good to be true. See:
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo
Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking
should last longer.  It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through
the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting
quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be
interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the
claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club





Re: Turf Management

 

Hi John and Alex,

Thanks for the feedback on the use of Primo Maxx. I got the tip from the Kiama Golf Club Greenkeepers and they have claimed, as do the makers, 'Syngenta' that, apart from inhibiting vertical growth, it enhances horizontal growth and thus helps the turf withstand stresses, including (foot) traffic (and presumably, croquet ball) wear.  I specifically asked whether it would slow the recovery from wear in the hoops and was advised that, because it promotes horizontal growth, if anything it should improve the recovery time of wear through the hoops. 

I doubt whether we will reduce our mowing frequency but if it could extend the period between needing to line mark it would be an advantage (we currently have to mark lines fortnightly in the summer).  Having less grass clippings to dispose of would also be an advantage.  Anyway we will give it a try, perhaps just on two lawns so that we can use the third one for reference.   Incidentally, Syngenta and 'Living Turf' recommend between 15 to 60 ml per 1000 square metres (ie approx. one croquet lawn) for hybrid couch grass so we will start midway at about 40 ml per 1000 SqM. (which is comparable with what Alix indicates is used at RSGC)

Cheers

Roger Evans


On 30/01/2017 12:28 PM, John Eddes wrote:

Roger,

The green keeper at Tempe uses this product during the rapid growing season particularly and was probably applying the second application this summer today. He agrees with the claimed benefits and these are evident at Tempe although reducing rabbit runs is a bit problematic. I  do not know the dilution he uses. It reduces frequency of mowing and reduces cut grass that in some clubs is difficult to dispose of.

If you wish to talk to our green keeper let me know.

John Eddes


On 30/01/2017 11:16 AM, Alix Verge wrote:
Hi Roger,

I asked my chief groundsman at RSGC and he said Primo is a fabulous product that is widely used here and on most golf courses Sept to March. They do NOT use it in areas of high wear eg grass tennis courts and bowling greens as it inhibits regrowth too much but on feature lawns and surrounds of these areas they spray 750mm per hectare ..... but it can be diluted further to 300 per hectare and still have very noticeable effect. For lower concentrations they do not use iron fertilizer in the mix but do for the stronger because the downside is loss of colour - and lack of regrowth in high wear areas like corner 4 and rabbit runs. I asked if one could simply spray AROUND these areas but got only a non-committal nod ..... i think they operate over such large areas here that missing small patches to order is not in their mental agenda.

I hope this helps,

Alix (mob)
0400 825 920

AUSTRALIA: RESETTLING BOAT PEOPLE SINCE 1788


-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Evans <rfkevans@...>
Date:29/01/2017 12:01 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: cnswplayers@groups.io
Cc:
Subject: [cnswplayers] Turf Management

Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply
a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer
growing season.  According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx
slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is
enhanced.  The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is
better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought,
diseases and traffic.  It almost sounds too good to be true. See:
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo
Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking
should last longer.  It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through
the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting
quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be
interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the
claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club






Re: Turf Management

Margaret Sawers
 


Can anyone tell me where you get this stuff? how much does it cost?
is it a liquid or powder?
Sounds like a good thing, I have talked to our green keeper and he would like to know more about it.
I looked at the web site and when I clicked on contact us I got an American phone number. Is there some where in Australia to contact?
Margaret


----- Original Message -----
From:
cnswplayers@groups.io

To:
<cnswplayers@groups.io>
Cc:

Sent:
Sun, 29 Jan 2017 12:01:53 +1100
Subject:
[cnswplayers] Turf Management


Hi Croquet Greenkeepers,

A couple of our colleague golf club greenkeepers have suggested we apply
a growth regulator called Primo Maxx to our lawns during the summer
growing season. According to the manufacturer, (Syngenta) Primo Maxx
slows vertical shoot growth while lateral and below ground growth is
enhanced. The benefits claimed are a denser, healthier turf that is
better able to withstand a variety of stresses including heat, drought,
diseases and traffic. It almost sounds too good to be true. See:
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/primo-maxx-plant-growth-regulator/overview/turf


If the claimed benefits are achieved for a croquet lawn the use of Primo
Maxx should mean less frequent mowing or, at least, the line marking
should last longer. It also should reduce lawn wear, particular through
the hoops (where we tend to get rabbit runs) and at the GC starting
quadrant.

At Jamberoo we intend to give this product a try but we would be
interested in whether any other clubs have used it and, if so, have the
claimed benefits been achieved in practice on a croquet lawn?

Cheers

Roger Evans

Jamberoo Croquet Club