Topics

Ok - I'm hooked (again)

Timothy Cole
 

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition. 

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go. 

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers.... 

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not. 

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!
Tim

Jonathan Sivier
 

There are a couple of books you might want to get that can be very useful resources.

Handbook of Model Rocketry, 7th Edition
Make: High-Power Rockets
Modern High-Power Rocketry 2

The handbook is one that everyone should read. The Make book is a bit newer than Modern HPR2 and thus will be a bit more up-to-date on technology. Both have good information on the basics of construction and flying of high power rockets. Electronics, altimeters, etc., keep changing so fast that any book that is published will likely be a bit out of date. Overall they are good sources of information.

You'll probably want to gain some experience with reloadable motors before trying your level 1 flight. The Aerotech 29mm 40-120 case is a good one to practice with. There are a large number of mid-power motor loads available for this case and it will give you an opportunity to gain some experience with reloads.

Jonathan

On 11/28/2019 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... wrote:
My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition.

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go.

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers....

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not.

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Tim

Joe Rice
 

Dual deployment not required or recommended for L1 or L2. Keep it simple. Too many ways to go wrong. Also use a single use H motor. Building a motor not required. Lots of rockets to choose from. Depends on your budget and building skills. 38 mm motor tube good to start can adapt 29mm motors if desired. LOC IV is an excellent choice. Google it go on you tube to see lots of L1 videos 


On Nov 28, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... wrote:

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition. 

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go. 

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers.... 

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not. 

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!
Tim

Timothy Cole
 
Edited

I happen to have a 29mm 40-120 case. I tried loading it with an E motor that we couldn’t get to ignite after several tries. I need to get familiar with motor manufacturers as I’m only aware of Estes and Aerotech right now. 

Joe, would you recommend dual deployment before or after getting level 1 ? And definitely not trying it on the cert flight, lol. Like you said, too many things that can go wrong.

Ive built the Initiator, Arreaux, and Callisto kits, so building wise something with a bit more of a challenge would be fun. 

Jonathan Sivier
 

Those E16's can be hard to light. I'm not sure why they should be more difficult than other White Lightning motors, but it does seem that way. I haven't noticed similar problems with F40's or G64's , which are just longer grains of the same propellant in the same case. Give the E23 load a try. I think you'll be pleased with its performance.

Jonathan

On 11/28/2019 2:17 PM, Fxguy1@... wrote:
I happen to have a 29mm 40-120 case. I tried loading it with an E motor that we couldn’t get to ignite after several tries. I need to get familiar with motor manufacturers as I’m only aware of Estes and Aerotech right now.

Jonathan Sivier
 

Traditional dual deployment, with a drogue and main chute in separate bays and the ejection charges fired by an altimeter, tends to be seen mostly in larger high power rockets. There is no reason you couldn't potentially put together a mid-power rocket of this sort, but with the added space, and thus body tube which means weight, needed for all the stuff that goes into a dual deployment configuration it would be a challenge to keep it under 3.3 lbs and get a good flight on a motor that wasn't high power. Not impossible, but a challenge.

That being said you can get some experience with dual deployment by using a Chute Release like the ones being flown on Sunday. These work great for mid-power rockets. It will fit in a BT-60 body tube, though that is without a chute protector wrapped around it. I prefer to use a chute protector with mine, so about the smallest tube it will fit in is 2 inches.

I would say you would be better off not worrying about building a dual deployment rocket (not counting using a Chute Release) until you are ready to fly much larger motors that will go high enough to make dual deployment a necessity (or if not a necessity, then a really good idea).

If you are able to come to the meeting at the Springer Center next Tuesday I'm sure we would be happy to talk with you about all of these ideas.

Jonathan

On 11/28/2019 2:17 PM, Fxguy1@... wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

I happen to have a 29mm 40-120 case. I tried loading it with an E motor that we couldn’t get to ignite after several tries. I need to get familiar with motor manufacturers as I’m only aware of Estes and Aerotech right now.

Joe, would you recommend dual deployment before or after getting level 1 ? And definitely not trying it on the cert flight, lol. Like you said, too many things that can go wrong.

Ive built the Initiator, Arreaux, and Callisto kits, so building wise something with a bit more of a challenge would be fun.

M
 

Agree.. got my L1 on a H128… in a motor deploy flight.. just the best way to go..

 

The CIA is BY FAR the best club to be involved in… they will help you EVERY step of the way.

 

My L1

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFmkWv5nXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unYs_zjFlrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fao6uwoLQLc

 

Thank you CIA for some great years.

 

Mike Z

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Joe Rice
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:54 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Ok - I'm hooked (again)

 

Dual deployment not required or recommended for L1 or L2. Keep it simple. Too many ways to go wrong. Also use a single use H motor. Building a motor not required. Lots of rockets to choose from. Depends on your budget and building skills. 38 mm motor tube good to start can adapt 29mm motors if desired. LOC IV is an excellent choice. Google it go on you tube to see lots of L1 videos 



On Nov 28, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... wrote:

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition. 

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go. 

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers.... 

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not. 

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!
Tim

Rick Lyons
 

I used a Aerotech H-123 in  a Apogee Zephyr for my Level 1. It's a great kit that's easy to build. Apogee has construction videos if you have any problems. 

On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 6:30:24 PM CST, M via Groups.Io <grimracercnc@...> wrote:


Agree.. got my L1 on a H128… in a motor deploy flight.. just the best way to go..

 

The CIA is BY FAR the best club to be involved in… they will help you EVERY step of the way.

 

My L1

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFmkWv5nXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unYs_zjFlrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fao6uwoLQLc

 

Thank you CIA for some great years.

 

Mike Z

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Joe Rice
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:54 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Ok - I'm hooked (again)

 

Dual deployment not required or recommended for L1 or L2. Keep it simple. Too many ways to go wrong. Also use a single use H motor. Building a motor not required. Lots of rockets to choose from. Depends on your budget and building skills. 38 mm motor tube good to start can adapt 29mm motors if desired. LOC IV is an excellent choice. Google it go on you tube to see lots of L1 videos 



On Nov 28, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... wrote:

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition. 

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go. 

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers.... 

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not. 

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!
Tim

Jonathan Sivier
 

It's nice to see the Flatville site again.

Jonathan

On 11/28/2019 6:30 PM, M via Groups.Io wrote:
Agree.. got my L1 on a H128… in a motor deploy flight.. just the best way to go..

The CIA is BY FAR the best club to be involved in… they will help you EVERY step of the way.

My L1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFmkWv5nXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unYs_zjFlrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fao6uwoLQLc

Thank you CIA for some great years.

Mike Z

*From:*cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Joe Rice
*Sent:* Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:54 PM
*To:* cia-rocketry@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [cia-rocketry] Ok - I'm hooked (again)

Dual deployment not required or recommended for L1 or L2. Keep it simple. Too many ways to go wrong. Also use a single use H motor. Building a motor not required. Lots of rockets to choose from. Depends on your budget and building skills. 38 mm motor tube good to start can adapt 29mm motors if desired. LOC IV is an excellent choice. Google it go on you tube to see lots of L1 videos



On Nov 28, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... <mailto:Fxguy1@...> wrote:

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML Callisto in working condition.

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons. I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a paint job to be ready to go.

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch. Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc.. Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at suppliers....

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload / electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do or not.

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Tim

steven dramstad
 
Edited

Motor deploy is fine for level 1. Best way to go. For level 2 my personal recommendation is dual deploy with an altimeter. Level 2 motors are big enough that I prefer a more accurate method to detect apogee then guessing at the delay time. And if you want to go level 3 you want a lot of experience with electronic deploy before you try to get it.

 

Steve

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Fxguy1@...
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 2:21 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Ok - I'm hooked (again)

 

[Edited Message Follows]

I happen to have a 29mm 40-120 case. I tried loading it with an E motor that we couldn’t get to ignite after several tries. I need to get familiar with motor manufacturers as I’m only aware of Estes and Aerotech right now. 

Joe, would you recommend dual deployment before or after getting level 1 ? And definitely not trying it on the cert flight, lol. Like you said, too many things that can go wrong.

Ive built the Initiator, Arreaux, and Callisto kits, so building wise something with a bit more of a challenge would be fun. 

 

 

Christopher Deem
 

Nice video's, I think I know those guys.

Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 level 2

M via Groups.Io wrote:


Agree.. got my L1 on a H128… in a motor deploy flight.. just the best way to go..

The CIA is BY FAR the best club to be involved in… they will help you EVERY step of the way.

My L1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFmkWv5nXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unYs_zjFlrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fao6uwoLQLc

Thank you CIA for some great years.

Mike Z

*From:*cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Joe Rice
*Sent:* Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:54 PM
*To:* cia-rocketry@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [cia-rocketry] Ok - I'm hooked (again)

Dual deployment not required or recommended for L1 or L2. Keep it simple. Too many ways to go wrong. Also use a single use H motor. Building a motor not required. Lots of rockets to choose from. Depends on your budget and building skills. 38 mm motor tube good to start can adapt 29mm motors if desired. LOC IV is an excellent choice. Google it go on you tube to see lots of L1 videos



On Nov 28, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Fxguy1@... <mailto:Fxguy1@...> wrote:

My family and I attended the launch this past weekend and I
pulled out my old initiator and was able to launch it. Needless to
say, after seeing everyone's launches I've gotten the bug again to
get back into rocketry. So I'm looking for recommendations. I
currently have an Aerotech Initator, Estes Mean Machine, and a PML
Callisto in working condition.

The Callisto has been assembled except for launch lugs / buttons.
I purchased a set of buttons to install then it will just need a
paint job to be ready to go.

I've set myself a goal of becoming level 1 certified, dual
deployment, and a video camera mounted to record the launch.
Looking for suggestions for the rocket kit, electronics, etc..
Many of the suggestions I am coming across are out of stock at
suppliers....

Not knowing much about design and construction beyond pre-approved
assembly instructions, I dont know if I can simply add a payload /
electronics bay to my Callisto and achieve what I am looking to do
or not.

Any info / links / books / would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Tim

Wes Cravens
 

Hi Tim,

I can't wait to meet you someday.  If I ever get my new house in order and then get my butt up and out to a launch I'm sure we will meet.  But here's a few tit bits that you can give me $0.02 worth of two-stage-scotch-tape some day.

No reason to wait for L1 to do dual deployment.  It's also worth looking at the Chute-Release.  Kinda a 1.5 deployment of sorts.  Some may say it's full on 'dual deployment' and I'd probably be willing to be one of them.  I've actually used a Chute Release on D-Motors.  Awkward, and unnecessary, but fun.

As for L1... as others have said, keep your L1 simple.  Part of the certification is understanding why this part is important.  Keep it simple, low and slow and maximize your chances of success.  That's really the point.  You can go wild and crazy both before and after your L1.  But for the cert, keep it cool.   And trust me, you can have more fun with an 18mm body tube than you can imagine!  And you can damn near out 'perform' Steve and his wacky H999 Warp Nines if you want to. Gauntlet Thrown!

There are years of fun, experimentation and learning to do without ever getting an L1.  As a way to get some inspiration and explore various aspects of the hobby and find what suits you best the NARTEK Skills Program is a winner.  There is a world of opportunity below mid-high power and L certs.  But of course, L certs are awesome, until you get to L3, then they are just a way to spend your retirement or, if you are lucky, your kid's inheritance.  Here are some top priorities to consider: Building Skills, competition, scale flight characteristics, scale modeling, burning the most motors, accurate apogee and flight dynamics, out of sight apogees, experimental designs, raw altitude, raw speed, socializing, weird/silly stuff, pushing the boundaries, etc. 

I agree with the Rocketry Handbook but can't speak to other books that have been recommended.  I'm happy to lend out my copy of the rocketry handbook so that you can get a feel for it if you like.

I'd also recommend that you get into modelling and simulation with something like OpenRocket.  I'm one of the 'administrative maintainers' on that project.  So I'm in a good spot to say that it's been stuck for a number of years on some 'features' that are arguably unnecessary and may never happen.  So the last 'good' release was in 2015, but it's a good release and works well (but it does need an aging version of Java to run).  But it's free, accurate and basically full featured for what you need to play around and accurately model your rockets as you build.

Some other resources to be familiar with:
The Rocketry Forum - You can lose your life to this one, like most forums.  And if you want to, then great, have at it.  You'll be in great company while you do so.
Apogee Components Howto & Guides - Tim Van Milligan is a kind of take him or leave him character.  But IMO he seems to be the champion of creating free online information sources for both novice and experienced builders.  My criticism of him is that he and Apogee components always have a hand in your pocket.  But I guess we shouldn't fault him/them for that.  At the end of the day, their customers keep them producing online content for the rest of us.  And it's pretty good quality.  But, it doesn't take long at all before you end up buying your supplies somewhere else with more reasonable prices and less aggressive marketing tactics.  With that being said, every now and then, Apogee Components will have something that no-one else has (usually through licencing agreements).  And while I'm at, Don't waste your money on RockSim, nobody likes it. (/me ducks for cover).
ThrustCurve.org - Just understanding why this exists is a learning lesson in itself.
Altus Metrum - <- Ya, just anything they say or do. Garbee is a RockStar, I just haven't got the t-shirt yet.  I'm pretty sure he's on this list, so let's see if he pipes up. :-)

I have many many more references.   Can you let me/us know a little bit more about your academic/professional background and interests so that I can provide you the best references that I have?

I'm thrilled that yourself and some other recent additions to the hobby are getting bitten by the bug.  I, myself, bought my son an off the shelf launcher and two rocket kits about 5 years ago.  That re-introduced me to the hobby and got me dug in pretty deep until about two years ago when life swept me up and carried me off into the never-_never_ :-( of rocketry.  But I'll be back.  For now, I'm the official lurker... no legit... it's a club title. ;-)

All the best,

Wes



On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 2:21 PM <Fxguy1@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I happen to have a 29mm 40-120 case. I tried loading it with an E motor that we couldn’t get to ignite after several tries. I need to get familiar with motor manufacturers as I’m only aware of Estes and Aerotech right now. 

Joe, would you recommend dual deployment before or after getting level 1 ? And definitely not trying it on the cert flight, lol. Like you said, too many things that can go wrong.

Ive built the Initiator, Arreaux, and Callisto kits, so building wise something with a bit more of a challenge would be fun.