Level 1 certification


Mike Maxwell
 

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike


Tim Dixon
 

Both are great kits. Some do not like the piston ejection used on PML kits. Personally, I have never had trouble with them, and they certainly provide great protection for your recovery components. I did my L1 on a PML X-Caliber.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 10:25 AM Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...> wrote:
Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike


Lon Westfall
 

Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Tim Dixon
 

Lon makes some good points. Another great "pro" in considering Binder Design is their thorough, illustrated instruction set, which for a first high power/Level 1 build is great learning in itself.


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...> wrote:
Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Mike Maxwell
 

Here are a couple photos of my last build. Is was a north coast rocketry SA-14 Archer. I like the idea of fiberglass. One reason I was thinking of PML was because of the quantum tubing and how they clams it’s is stronger and smooth without filling in spirals. I will check out hawkmountain. Thanks!


On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Tim Dixon <dixontj936@...> wrote:


Lon makes some good points. Another great "pro" in considering Binder Design is their thorough, illustrated instruction set, which for a first high power/Level 1 build is great learning in itself.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...> wrote:
Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Christopher Deem
 

What Lon said, Quantum tubing is plastic pipe and most glues will not stick to it. Also, it expands and contracts more than other materials with temperature changes.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...>
Date: 9/29/20 10:58 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Christopher Deem
 

As your friendly neighborhood AeroTech dealer, I would be remiss if I did not mention the AeroTech  Mega Initiator. 4" diameter, 60" tall, 32 inches. 54mm motor mount, with adapters for 38mm anorder in the next
d 29mm. If you order in the next couple of hours, 25% off of the regular $169.99 price.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
Date: 9/29/20 11:37 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Here are a couple photos of my last build. Is was a north coast rocketry SA-14 Archer. I like the idea of fiberglass. One reason I was thinking of PML was because of the quantum tubing and how they clams it’s is stronger and smooth without filling in spirals. I will check out hawkmountain. Thanks!


On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Tim Dixon <dixontj936@...> wrote:


Lon makes some good points. Another great "pro" in considering Binder Design is their thorough, illustrated instruction set, which for a first high power/Level 1 build is great learning in itself.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...> wrote:
Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Gary Slater
 

Chris or anyone else, what epoxy does stick to Quantum?

On Sep 29, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Christopher Deem <chris-deem@...> wrote:


What Lon said, Quantum tubing is plastic pipe and most glues will not stick to it. Also, it expands and contracts more than other materials with temperature changes.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...>
Date: 9/29/20 10:58 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Greg Smith
 

It’s unobtanium. Solvent welding is the only way to attach anything to PVC, but that doesn’t work with porous materials or thermoset plastics like fiberglass resins, so you’re pretty much out of luck. The PML quantum kits stay together only because the tube is mechanically trapped by the fins and motor tube assembly.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Slater
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:04 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

 

Chris or anyone else, what epoxy does stick to Quantum?


Christopher Deem
 

None that I know of for sure, but they do make an epoxy that is supposed to work on plastics.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Slater <gws77@...>
Date: 9/29/20 3:17 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Chris or anyone else, what epoxy does stick to Quantum?

On Sep 29, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Christopher Deem <chris-deem@...> wrote:


What Lon said, Quantum tubing is plastic pipe and most glues will not stick to it. Also, it expands and contracts more than other materials with temperature changes.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...>
Date: 9/29/20 10:58 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Christopher Deem
 

That should have been 32 ounches. 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Christopher Deem <chris-deem@...>
Date: 9/29/20 1:51 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

As your friendly neighborhood AeroTech dealer, I would be remiss if I did not mention the AeroTech  Mega Initiator. 4" diameter, 60" tall, 32 inches. 54mm motor mount, with adapters for 38mm anorder in the next
d 29mm. If you order in the next couple of hours, 25% off of the regular $169.99 price.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
Date: 9/29/20 11:37 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Here are a couple photos of my last build. Is was a north coast rocketry SA-14 Archer. I like the idea of fiberglass. One reason I was thinking of PML was because of the quantum tubing and how they clams it’s is stronger and smooth without filling in spirals. I will check out hawkmountain. Thanks!


On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Tim Dixon <dixontj936@...> wrote:


Lon makes some good points. Another great "pro" in considering Binder Design is their thorough, illustrated instruction set, which for a first high power/Level 1 build is great learning in itself.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Lon Westfall <l.westfall@...> wrote:
Hi Mike,

I started rocketry with PML kits.  My level one cert was with an Ariel.  I would recommend staying away from Quantum Tubing which is what is used on the Miranda, Endeavour, and the Ariel.  For most people building a first high power kit it is probably best to stick with cardboard or blue tube and no pistons.  Pistons and Quantum Tubing do not mix well although I have had good luck with fiberglass and pistons.  I'm personally fond of fiberglass or carbon fiber rockets but they require more experience with construction than cardboard or blue tube and are much more expensive.  Popular cardboard kits are available from locprecision.com and binderdesign.com.  If you are in the market for fiberglass kits a source for well designed and complete kits is hawkmountian.ws.  Most manufactures of fiberglass kits do not include things like a parachute.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Lon Westfall

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Maxwell <mmaxwell525@...>
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Good morning everyone. I have been thinking about trying to get a level one certification over the last few weeks and I’m looking for some advice on a kit. I have been looking at public missiles and like two of their kits. The Miranda and the Endeavour.
The Miranda is :
3” diameter
62” tall
52oz
And has the kwik switch 54/38/29 MMT.
The Endeavour is:
3.9” diameter
71” tall
72 oz
And has the same kwik switch MMT
I read in an article to think about where you would like to be in 2-3 years after your level one and use a kit with that in mind. That being said I am leaning toward the larger Endeavour. If anyone has had any experience with public missiles kits I would love to know how the quality is. Also if anyone has any other suggestions for different kits I would appreciate it.
Thanks mike






Mark Joseph
 

No shortage of great advice in the preceding replies.

My personal take (and it's all opinion, right?) on choice of L1 rocket kits or scratch designs, is:
a) enjoy what you're building and flying, do it for you - it's yours; (that might make all of the following points irrelevant).
b) keep it relatively simple - limit the use of new techniques and gadgets;
c) consider your present level of building experience and use of specific materials;
d) build for and fly the field(s) you're likely to use: How high will a small H take this rocket? Is there room to fly it on larger motors, too? How about a G motor? There might be a sweet spot in weight that makes it most flexible. Do you care?

With that stuff in mind, I like the idea of 4" cardboard tube, 3/16" or 1/4" plywood fins rockets in the ~3lb (empty) vicinity. 5 or 6 feet tall, 38 or 54mm motor tube. Straightforward construction, you can get your hand in it, very repairable (not that you will ever need to do that). There are many examples of great kits that fit these criteria. Plenty of 3" kits, too, but not all of the above will apply. Though maybe not sexy, a lot of great choices, depending on your tastes.

If fiberglass is your thing, get familiar with the differences in surface preparation, personal protection, and adjust the above for the potential difference in weight. Also many great kits in this range, including some relatively recent thin-wall fiberglass tube that helps keep the weight down. Great Rocketry Forum sticky posts on building fiberglass kits, fiberglass prep, and also good lessons about epoxy.

[and with any material, proper prep for adhesives and paint is always the key]

Great examples (I think) of the 4" paper tube/plywood fin variety:
Binder Excel
Madcow Super DX3
Apogee Zephyr
various LOC kits
several more that I'm not thinking of at the moment - it's not meant to be an exhaustive list, just representative, and vendors with great service.

Fiberglass vendors to consider:
Madcow
Mach1 Rocketry (good thinwall fiberglass, great parts machining/fit)
Hawk Mountain (although we hear very little about them lately)
Wildman - (kit components are generally limited to the basics, unless specifically stated otherwise)

Kits with other materials:
PML
MAC Performance Rocketry (canvas-phenolic tubing, excellent parts fit/machining, great service)

Enough rambling.

Ohs for PML airframe and epoxy, they have some FAQs on their site about just that:
https://publicmissiles.com/PMLAirframesFAQ.pdf (see the Do's and Don'ts of Quantum Tubing

Enjoy the process - we'll certainly enjoy seeing the results, and everything along the way.

Mark


________________________________________

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io <cia-rocketry@groups.io> on behalf of Greg Smith <gregs@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:20 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

It’s unobtanium. Solvent welding is the only way to attach anything to PVC, but that doesn’t work with porous materials or thermoset plastics like fiberglass resins, so you’re pretty much out of luck. The PML quantum kits stay together only because the tube is mechanically trapped by the fins and motor tube assembly.

- GDS



From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Slater
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:04 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Level 1 certification

Chris or anyone else, what epoxy does stick to Quantum?