Date   

dinner with Chuck

Jonathan Sivier
 

A few of us are planning to meet with Chuck Greenwood for dinner tomorrow, Saturday, June 19. We plan to meet at Papa Del's Pizza in Champaign at 7 p.m. If you are interested in joining us let me know so I'll know how big of a table we need.

Jonathan


Re: Build technique?

john hall
 

Gary, my daughter got me this kit for my birthday around a year ago, she went into Slot and Wing and asked for the coolest model rocket they had, they sold her the Mars Longship.  Unfortunately the complexity of the kit has prevented me from starting the build.  I've had it out of the box 3 times and put it back away :)   My wife got me the Estes Saturn V around two years ago, it's still in the box as well.  Maybe I'll get brave enough to tackle these at some point. 

I'll be interested in how the build goes, see you at the next launch.  





On Friday, 18 June 2021, 11:09:39 am GMT-5, Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:


Got the Estes Mars Longship.

There are 3 thick (about 1mm) pieces each 1 in wide that have to be glued to a 4 in diameter ring. Those thick pieces are of course flat and have to be curved.

The Apogee website recommends wetting them prior to bending to prevent undesired creases. I was afraid to do that.

I used this 1 in diameter dowels to cover, tape then zip tie to. Hopefully they will hold their curve when i release them after a couple of days.

The pieces have a smaller area as seen in the photo. I marked both ends the aligned those on the pencil mark on the dowel to make sure the curve is proper.

Its a very interesting kit. Some plastic parts included. Reminds me a bit of the 2001 ship.


Build technique?

Gary Slater
 

Got the Estes Mars Longship.

There are 3 thick (about 1mm) pieces each 1 in wide that have to be glued to a 4 in diameter ring. Those thick pieces are of course flat and have to be curved.

The Apogee website recommends wetting them prior to bending to prevent undesired creases. I was afraid to do that.

I used this 1 in diameter dowels to cover, tape then zip tie to. Hopefully they will hold their curve when i release them after a couple of days.

The pieces have a smaller area as seen in the photo. I marked both ends the aligned those on the pencil mark on the dowel to make sure the curve is proper.

Its a very interesting kit. Some plastic parts included. Reminds me a bit of the 2001 ship.


Re: pictures from Saturday

Christopher Deem
 

Thanks, now if I could just find a plastic Santa Claus to go with it.



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Jonathan Sivier <jsivier@...>
Date: 6/15/21 12:13 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] pictures from Saturday

Nice pictures Chris. I especially like the "Christmas in June" flying candle decoration.

Jonathan

On 6/15/2021 6:59 AM, Christopher Deem wrote:
On our SmugMug website. Not many, only a few people showed up, and we
left early because of the heat index.

--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 02256 level 2


Re: pictures from Saturday

Jonathan Sivier
 

Nice pictures Chris. I especially like the "Christmas in June" flying candle decoration.

Jonathan


On 6/15/2021 6:59 AM, Christopher Deem wrote:
On our SmugMug website. Not many, only a few people showed up, and we
left early because of the heat index.

--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 02256 level 2


pictures from Saturday

Christopher Deem
 

On our SmugMug website. Not many, only a few people showed up, and we
left early because of the heat index.

--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 02256 level 2


last chance to order your GARLO shirts

Jonathan Sivier
 

I'll be placing the order for GARLO t-shirts in the next day or so. If you haven't ordered your shirt(s) yet, now if the time to do it. The shirts will be a medium blue with a design based on the parachute used by the Mars Perseverance lander earlier this year. I'm attaching an image of the parachute design. This isn't the final design that will be printed on the shirts, but it may give you an idea of the central element of the design.

The price will be $15 per shirt. This is the same price as in the past. We should be able to get just about any adult or youth sizes.

To place your order send me an email to <jsivier@...>. Be sure to specify the number of shirts you want and the size(s). You can pay for them with cash or check when you pick them up at GARLO.

Jonathan


last call for Quest/AeroTech

Christopher Deem
 

I am sending. the order in next week, if you want anything, you need to
let me know now. e-mail me at chris-deem@...

--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 02256 level 2


#Launch is GO #Launch

Greg Smith
 

At 10:00 AM, it was 88°F in Champaign, with clear skies and a SW wind at 3 mph.

Although there is still a threat of thunderstorms later in the day, the current forecast predicts they will not develop until after 5:00 PM. So, we should at least have several hours of good flying weather before then.

We will meet as planned at 12:00 noon north of the Dodds Park shelter to begin setting up. Beware of the possibility of copious miniature soccer players on the field which may delay our setup.

-----

Greg Smith  N9LHI
NAR 15881 * TRA 1974
Director of Operations, Central Illinois Aerospace
greg@...  217-840-1678


Re: Outlook for Saturday #Launch

Christopher Deem
 

Well, we didn't have GARLO last year, so we could do 2020 the 26th, and 2021 in August. Our theme could be "Deja Vu".



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Greg Smith <gregs@...>
Date: 6/11/21 6:42 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: [Special] Re: [cia-rocketry] Outlook for Saturday #launch

Now in the last 5-1/2 months, I haven’t once written the wrong year on a check or other document, but I finally did it today. That should, of course, be “GARLO 2022.” Or 2021, or something. It’s only a 0.05% error in any case.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Greg Smith
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 6:14 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: [Special] [cia-rocketry] Outlook for Saturday #launch

 

Our next scheduled launch will be GARLO 2020 on Saturday, June 26 at Dodds Park.


Re: Outlook for Saturday #Launch

Greg Smith
 

Now in the last 5-1/2 months, I haven’t once written the wrong year on a check or other document, but I finally did it today. That should, of course, be “GARLO 2022.” Or 2021, or something. It’s only a 0.05% error in any case.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Greg Smith
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 6:14 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: [Special] [cia-rocketry] Outlook for Saturday #launch

 

Our next scheduled launch will be GARLO 2020 on Saturday, June 26 at Dodds Park.


Re: Outlook for Saturday #Launch

Adam Rouse
 


If it goes,  I hope everyone has a great time! I'll miss thus launch and GARLO as I am traveling in June.

Cheers!
-Adam 


Sent via mobile device, please pardon any typographical errors. Thank you! 

This email is intended only for the addressee and may be legally privileged. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. 


Outlook for Saturday #Launch

Greg Smith
 

We have a rocket launch scheduled tomorrow, Saturday, June 12, at Dodds Park in Champaign.

Setup will begin at 12:00 noon, probably in the north half of the soccer field parking lots. Our waiver allows flying up to 4,000' MSL (3,252' from ground level). The waiver expires at sunset at 8:23 PM.

We may need to wait for Park District soccer players to finish their matches and leave the field before we can set up.

Summer has arrived, and the forecast is hot and muggy:

-----

Saturday - Scattered showers and thunderstorms, mainly after 1pm. Mostly sunny, with a high near 93. Calm wind becoming northwest 5 to 7 mph in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation is 40%. (NWS)

Partial cloudiness early, with scattered showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon. High 93F. Winds NW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 50%. (TWC)

-----

Sigh, it's another "too close to call" day. The heat will be a challenge (bring water and sunscreen), the wind sounds tolerable, but it's hard to predict those summertime pop-up thunderstorms. It will depend on what I can divine from the forecasts and radar tomorrow morning. Let's call our chances 50/50. I'll post the final decision about the launch here shortly after 10:00 AM tomorrow. You can also call me after that time at 217-840-1678 for an update.

Our next scheduled launch will be GARLO 2020 on Saturday, June 26 at Dodds Park.

We will be enforcing our physical distancing and masking requirements at tomorrow's launch.

-----

Greg Smith N9LHI
NAR 15881 * TRA 1974
Director of Operations, Central Illinois Aerospace
greg@... 217-840-1678


order your GARLO shirts now

Jonathan Sivier
 

GARLO is 2 weeks from tomorrow. if you want to get a GARLO t-shirt you need to place the order in the next few days. The shirts will be a medium blue with a design based on the parachute used by the Mars Perseverance lander earlier this year.

The price will be $15 per shirt. This is the same price as in the past. We should be able to get just about any adult or youth sizes.

To place your order send me an email to <jsivier@...> or see me at the launch tomorrow. Be sure to specify the number of shirts you want and the size(s). You can pay for them with cash or check when you pick them up at GARLO.

Jonathan


Re: Centering Ring Placement

Kevin A
 

I would just contact LOC and tell them your situation.  I can't imagine they'd charge you.

Might even be worth asking if they'd send new fins.  The new design is much more robust than the old tab lock fin design.  (If your kit isn't the latest revision)

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:19 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
Enough 4F isnt an issue for me, Steve.  

 My tools are not all out of storage or are still boxed up since my move. Making a CR is my problem. 

Costs more to ship one than the ring does I think. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 7:43 PM, steven dramstad <sdramstad@...> wrote:



I know Mini Mags are short but I would want the forward most ring far enough forward that you don’t have a lot of body tube to pressurize for ejection. 38s don’t usually come with a lot of black powder. I would make a 3rd ring and position it as far forward as is practical.

Steve

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin A
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:23 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

 

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

 

Just my noob thoughts.

 

Cheers,

Kevin

 

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 4:50 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:

Taking a pole.  

 

I know what I want to do.  This is just for discussion, especially for the newer flyers who may be wanting to get into more mid-high power flying.  (Chris will like that!)

 

This rocket uses a Loc 5.5 in airframe with a 38 mm MMT and will fly H-J motors.

I have only 2 centering rings. Adding a 3 ring is not an option.

 

Do you like:

1: the forward ring in the most forward position at leading fin tip 

or

2: on top of the TTW fin tab? 

 

The other will of course, will be located behind the fin tab.

 

Thanks for your input.  

 


Re: Centering Ring Placement

Gary Slater
 

Enough 4F isnt an issue for me, Steve.  

 My tools are not all out of storage or are still boxed up since my move. Making a CR is my problem. 

Costs more to ship one than the ring does I think. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 7:43 PM, steven dramstad <sdramstad@...> wrote:



I know Mini Mags are short but I would want the forward most ring far enough forward that you don’t have a lot of body tube to pressurize for ejection. 38s don’t usually come with a lot of black powder. I would make a 3rd ring and position it as far forward as is practical.

Steve

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin A
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:23 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

 

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

 

Just my noob thoughts.

 

Cheers,

Kevin

 

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 4:50 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:

Taking a pole.  

 

I know what I want to do.  This is just for discussion, especially for the newer flyers who may be wanting to get into more mid-high power flying.  (Chris will like that!)

 

This rocket uses a Loc 5.5 in airframe with a 38 mm MMT and will fly H-J motors.

I have only 2 centering rings. Adding a 3 ring is not an option.

 

Do you like:

1: the forward ring in the most forward position at leading fin tip 

or

2: on top of the TTW fin tab? 

 

The other will of course, will be located behind the fin tab.

 

Thanks for your input.  

 


Re: Centering Ring Placement

steven dramstad
 

I know Mini Mags are short but I would want the forward most ring far enough forward that you don’t have a lot of body tube to pressurize for ejection. 38s don’t usually come with a lot of black powder. I would make a 3rd ring and position it as far forward as is practical.

Steve

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin A
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:23 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

 

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

 

Just my noob thoughts.

 

Cheers,

Kevin

 

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 4:50 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:

Taking a pole.  

 

I know what I want to do.  This is just for discussion, especially for the newer flyers who may be wanting to get into more mid-high power flying.  (Chris will like that!)

 

This rocket uses a Loc 5.5 in airframe with a 38 mm MMT and will fly H-J motors.

I have only 2 centering rings. Adding a 3 ring is not an option.

 

Do you like:

1: the forward ring in the most forward position at leading fin tip 

or

2: on top of the TTW fin tab? 

 

The other will of course, will be located behind the fin tab.

 

Thanks for your input.  

 


Re: Centering Ring Placement

Gary Slater
 

I should. That kit has been laying around here a couple of years now. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Kevin A <kauskings@...> wrote:


The Minnie Magg kitshould most definitely include 3 rings... Mine should be done for GARLO.  I'd personally get a hold of LOC and ask them to send another.

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 6:42 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
The limitation is that I got only two with the kit. 

There are instances particularly in short, stubby high power rockets that recovery gear may have to be in the nose cone or somewhat wrapped around a motor that invades the airframe space. Just sayin. 

I prefer a centering ring at both ends of the fins if possible but I also realize the strength lies at the centering ring/fin tab interface. I often add that 3rd CR when I build a rocket with “short” fin tabs like the one in question because I want that extra little bit of airframe stiffness where the forward fin tip meets the tube. 

So my options are to make another,  buy another or do without.  This rocket airframe length and volume will accommodate the recovery even if I do add that forward ring. Even more so because the shoulder of the nose is open giving me an extra 3 1/2 inches of length/volume. 

For the record the kit in question is a Loc Minie Magg. I am removing the closed aft end of the nose. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Kevin A <kauskings@...> wrote:


Is the limitation only having 2, or does something in the design prevent a 3rd?

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 6:11 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
Let me add some information. 
The motor tube option is to accommodate up to a 38/720 case. So about 14 inches. 
What I want is all 3 CRs but I only have 2. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Greg Smith <gregs@...> wrote:



Agree completely with Mark. A third, forward ring is useful because it provides a convenient anchor point for a U-bolt or other recovery attachment, and it makes construction easier because it holds the motor tube in good alignment while you work on the internal fin tabs and fillets. But its structural contribution is minor.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Joseph
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:45 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

Interesting points, Kevin.

One concern in not having a truly "forward" centering ring has to do with conveniently and securely anchoring the recovery harness. If you've got that worked out in some other way, then I wouldn't give this a second thought. My opinion is that supporting the forward end of the motor mount (or even motor mounts long enough for the range of intended motors) is a somewhat overrated concept. I think that the structural integrity gained by creating the mechanical "system" of airframe/fin tabs/centering rings/motor mount/epoxy is the bottom line.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Again.

Mark

________________________________________
From: cia-rocketry@groups.io <cia-rocketry@groups.io> on behalf of Kevin A <kauskings@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:22 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

Just my noob thoughts.

Cheers,
Kevin

._,_


Re: Centering Ring Placement

Kevin A
 

The Minnie Magg kitshould most definitely include 3 rings... Mine should be done for GARLO.  I'd personally get a hold of LOC and ask them to send another.


On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 6:42 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
The limitation is that I got only two with the kit. 

There are instances particularly in short, stubby high power rockets that recovery gear may have to be in the nose cone or somewhat wrapped around a motor that invades the airframe space. Just sayin. 

I prefer a centering ring at both ends of the fins if possible but I also realize the strength lies at the centering ring/fin tab interface. I often add that 3rd CR when I build a rocket with “short” fin tabs like the one in question because I want that extra little bit of airframe stiffness where the forward fin tip meets the tube. 

So my options are to make another,  buy another or do without.  This rocket airframe length and volume will accommodate the recovery even if I do add that forward ring. Even more so because the shoulder of the nose is open giving me an extra 3 1/2 inches of length/volume. 

For the record the kit in question is a Loc Minie Magg. I am removing the closed aft end of the nose. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Kevin A <kauskings@...> wrote:


Is the limitation only having 2, or does something in the design prevent a 3rd?

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 6:11 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
Let me add some information. 
The motor tube option is to accommodate up to a 38/720 case. So about 14 inches. 
What I want is all 3 CRs but I only have 2. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Greg Smith <gregs@...> wrote:



Agree completely with Mark. A third, forward ring is useful because it provides a convenient anchor point for a U-bolt or other recovery attachment, and it makes construction easier because it holds the motor tube in good alignment while you work on the internal fin tabs and fillets. But its structural contribution is minor.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Joseph
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:45 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

Interesting points, Kevin.

One concern in not having a truly "forward" centering ring has to do with conveniently and securely anchoring the recovery harness. If you've got that worked out in some other way, then I wouldn't give this a second thought. My opinion is that supporting the forward end of the motor mount (or even motor mounts long enough for the range of intended motors) is a somewhat overrated concept. I think that the structural integrity gained by creating the mechanical "system" of airframe/fin tabs/centering rings/motor mount/epoxy is the bottom line.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Again.

Mark

________________________________________
From: cia-rocketry@groups.io <cia-rocketry@groups.io> on behalf of Kevin A <kauskings@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:22 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

Just my noob thoughts.

Cheers,
Kevin

._,_


Re: Centering Ring Placement

Gary Slater
 

The limitation is that I got only two with the kit. 

There are instances particularly in short, stubby high power rockets that recovery gear may have to be in the nose cone or somewhat wrapped around a motor that invades the airframe space. Just sayin. 

I prefer a centering ring at both ends of the fins if possible but I also realize the strength lies at the centering ring/fin tab interface. I often add that 3rd CR when I build a rocket with “short” fin tabs like the one in question because I want that extra little bit of airframe stiffness where the forward fin tip meets the tube. 

So my options are to make another,  buy another or do without.  This rocket airframe length and volume will accommodate the recovery even if I do add that forward ring. Even more so because the shoulder of the nose is open giving me an extra 3 1/2 inches of length/volume. 

For the record the kit in question is a Loc Minie Magg. I am removing the closed aft end of the nose. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Kevin A <kauskings@...> wrote:


Is the limitation only having 2, or does something in the design prevent a 3rd?

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 6:11 PM Gary Slater <gws77@...> wrote:
Let me add some information. 
The motor tube option is to accommodate up to a 38/720 case. So about 14 inches. 
What I want is all 3 CRs but I only have 2. 

On Jun 10, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Greg Smith <gregs@...> wrote:



Agree completely with Mark. A third, forward ring is useful because it provides a convenient anchor point for a U-bolt or other recovery attachment, and it makes construction easier because it holds the motor tube in good alignment while you work on the internal fin tabs and fillets. But its structural contribution is minor.

 

- GDS

 

 

 

From: cia-rocketry@groups.io [mailto:cia-rocketry@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Joseph
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:45 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

 

Interesting points, Kevin.

One concern in not having a truly "forward" centering ring has to do with conveniently and securely anchoring the recovery harness. If you've got that worked out in some other way, then I wouldn't give this a second thought. My opinion is that supporting the forward end of the motor mount (or even motor mounts long enough for the range of intended motors) is a somewhat overrated concept. I think that the structural integrity gained by creating the mechanical "system" of airframe/fin tabs/centering rings/motor mount/epoxy is the bottom line.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Again.

Mark

________________________________________
From: cia-rocketry@groups.io <cia-rocketry@groups.io> on behalf of Kevin A <kauskings@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:22 PM
To: cia-rocketry@groups.io Group Moderators
Subject: Re: [cia-rocketry] Centering Ring Placement

I would think at the top of the TTW fin tab would give the best support... But how far past that point does the MMT extend?

If that ring is not at least slightly past the midpoint of the MMT, I'd be looking at other options... Perhaps some shims at the leading end of the MMT tube vs a full ring?

Just my noob thoughts.

Cheers,
Kevin

._,_

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