The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.


Geoff Kingston
 

I read with some interest a few days ago the communication sent out on behalf of the committee of the BOC, 'Bristol Cars Spare Parts-an update 17th August 2022', for much of it it was a case of more or perhaps more accurate detail, a U turn in terms of what is now proposed in respect of the club owned parts but when I came across what the committee propose to do with its dormant off the shelf company it stopped me in its tracks,even so more part of its lead in statement.

 

"At the same time the question of 3rd party liability always raises its head. The BOC is a members’ Club, effectively with unlimited liability, although some insurances are in place".

 

The key words here are 'unlimited liability'

 

It then goes on to say,

 

"To protect the Club and its membership, it is proposed to transfer ownership of the parts to Bristol Owners’ Club Limited, a shell company at present, but which has existed for many years, and is owned by 2 committee members as trustees for the membership."

 

Sorry but wrong move, what needs to be done and done very quickly is to seek member approval for an ordinary resolution of the club to transfer the management and assets of the BOC to a company limited by guarantee, it only needs as I understand it a majority of those who actually vote to achieve this. With this change in status approved I understand that there are two ways to achieve this, one is to change the legal status of the company the Bristol Owners Club Limited, the other is to change the name of that company to say Confused Bristol Owners Club Ltd which leaves available Bristol Owners Club Limited to be registered as a new company limited by guarantee. This will allow the club to continue to function more or less as it does now but will give all the members the protection they deserve. I understand that there is expensive involved in both options and perhaps the quicker of the two might cost more but that is insignificant and irrelevant to the potential financial risk that most members may be blissfully aware they are exposed to by the current arrangements.

 

It is in my view in 2022 its absolutely insane that the BOC continues to operate as as a members club with "unlimited Liability" even more so with the current round of communications over the current problems which could so easily lead to potentially expensive litigation.

 

If total focus and effort of what is left of the committee of the club is directed in achieving this transition over the next two to three weeks then maybe then this sad and very disappointed member who joined the BOC 48 years ago might just stay, if not it won't just be a case of calling it a day on some of my old cars it might be a case of calling it a day on the BOC as well. One final thought the recent resignations of committee members and now the bulletin editor and the statement he gave speak for themselves.

 

Geoff,


dwomby
 

Unlimited liability  falling on club members in our kind of club surely should never be permitted.  I hope the committee can act quickly to fix that.

David
--
David Womby
1964 408-7023 Florida/Nova Scotia


Geoff Kingston
 

David

I totally agree, I think it is a situation of time passes and lost opportunities, the company was registered as I understand it to head of another issue years ago but as a member of another car club where things turned very nasty very quickly and issues if proved would have financially impacted very badly on members if the club had operated as the BOC does, I was very glad that the it operates as a Company limited by guarantee.

I have to confess that I saw two ways of raising this issue, I spoke to the last Chairman Brian Ridley-Jones and he was going to look into the matter but circumstances changed and he resigned very shortly thereafter.

I thought about raising it with the remains of the club committee but I feel that with the way things seem to be panning out at the moment I felt this could fall on deaf ears, hence my post on the forum.

This is a very serious issue so the more pressure from members to make this change hopefully the sooner it will happen, it is after all at the end of the day our club.

Geoff.




------ Original Message ------
From: "dwomby via groups.io" <davidawomby@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 20 Aug, 22 At 20:53
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

Unlimited liability falling on club members in our kind of club surely should never be permitted. I hope the committee can act quickly to fix that.

David
--
David Womby
1964 408-7023 Florida/Nova Scotia


Bela
 

As a non-UK member I am unfamiliar with UK law. So Geoff's hint is very important and it's also important to find a way to raise awareness and activate the committee. Without knowing the details - it must be a problem solved by many other clubs.


boblivermore
 

I am finding this current situation re the spares very confusing. What was hailed as a great triumph for the club seems to have turned into an albatross around its neck. I wonder how the extremely generous member who donated the money to buy the spares feels about it now?
What is further complicating matters is the plan to give the spares to another Limited Company that is owned by 2 BOC members on behalf of the membership. Are we allowed to know who these 2 mystery members are? Also, given that a new Limited Company has already been established to manage the parts, why not simply pass ownership to that organisation?
Another possibility, although it maybe heresy to some, might be to join forces with Pegasus, the spares organisation of BODA. I assume they have experience in handling issues relating to storing and selling parts to members and may be able to come up with some answers.
The lack of information and consultation with the membership has created a situation which has lead to confusion and disillusionment and a number of resignations of senior figures. I hope this will soon be resolved.


Geoff Kingston
 

The information on the current directors of Bristol Owners Club Limited is freely available on the companies house website , please note that I abbreviated Limited to Ltd in my original post and as Companies House will accept either designation that was a slight error which may hinder search results so just go for Bristol Owners Club Limited Companies House and you will have your answer, and then keep checking in case there are resignations and/or new appointments.

Geoff.




------ Original Message ------
From: "boblivermore" <boblivermore@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 21 Aug, 22 At 14:57
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

I am finding this current situation re the spares very confusing. What was hailed as a great triumph for the club seems to have turned into an albatross around its neck. I wonder how the extremely generous member who donated the money to buy the spares feels about it now?
What is further complicating matters is the plan to give the spares to another Limited Company that is owned by 2 BOC members on behalf of the membership. Are we allowed to know who these 2 mystery members are? Also, given that a new Limited Company has already been established to manage the parts, why not simply pass ownership to that organisation?
Another possibility, although it maybe heresy to some, might be to join forces with Pegasus, the spares organisation of BODA. I assume they have experience in handling issues relating to storing and selling parts to members and may be able to come up with some answers.
The lack of information and consultation with the membership has created a situation which has lead to confusion and disillusionment and a number of resignations of senior figures. I hope this will soon be resolved.


John Tullett
 

As an observation I would have thought this information might be offered directly from the committee to save 500 people having to individually research the information. Especially as one of the directors of that company has replied with the basic information here.

 

None of this information is covered by GDPR and is therefore quite safe to publish on this members forum.

 

John

 

From: bocforum@groups.io <bocforum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Kingston via groups.io
Sent: 21 August 2022 23:24
To: bocforum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

 

The information on the current directors of Bristol Owners Club Limited is freely available on the companies house website , please note that I abbreviated Limited to Ltd in my original post and as Companies House will accept either designation that was a slight error which may hinder search results so just go for Bristol Owners Club Limited Companies House and you will have your answer, and then keep checking in case there are resignations and/or new appointments.

Geoff.

 



------ Original Message ------
From: "boblivermore" <boblivermore@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 21 Aug, 22 At 14:57
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

I am finding this current situation re the spares very confusing. What was hailed as a great triumph for the club seems to have turned into an albatross around its neck. I wonder how the extremely generous member who donated the money to buy the spares feels about it now?
What is further complicating matters is the plan to give the spares to another Limited Company that is owned by 2 BOC members on behalf of the membership. Are we allowed to know who these 2 mystery members are? Also, given that a new Limited Company has already been established to manage the parts, why not simply pass ownership to that organisation?
Another possibility, although it maybe heresy to some, might be to join forces with Pegasus, the spares organisation of BODA. I assume they have experience in handling issues relating to storing and selling parts to members and may be able to come up with some answers.
The lack of information and consultation with the membership has created a situation which has lead to confusion and disillusionment and a number of resignations of senior figures. I hope this will soon be resolved.


Geoff Kingston
 

John,

I think there must be too many Geoff's in the BOC! It was my post about the availability of the information on the Directors on the Companies House Website. I have three dormant companies registered there myself but none of them are the Bristol Owners Club Limited which I have never had any involvement in.

Geoff Kingston.




------ Original Message ------
From: "John Tullett" <John.tullett@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Cc: "'Geoff Hawkins'" <geoffrey.hawkins@...>; "'GEOFF KINGSTON'" <geoffkingston15@...>
Sent: Tuesday, 23 Aug, 22 At 09:45
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

As an observation I would have thought this information might be offered directly from the committee to save 500 people having to individually research the information. Especially as one of the directors of that company has replied with the basic information here.

None of this information is covered by GDPR and is therefore quite safe to publish on this members forum.

John

From: bocforum@groups.io <bocforum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Kingston via groups.io
Sent: 21 August 2022 23:24
To: bocforum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

The information on the current directors of Bristol Owners Club Limited is freely available on the companies house website , please note that I abbreviated Limited to Ltd in my original post and as Companies House will accept either designation that was a slight error which may hinder search results so just go for Bristol Owners Club Limited Companies House and you will have your answer, and then keep checking in case there are resignations and/or new appointments.

Geoff.



------ Original Message ------
From: "boblivermore" <boblivermore@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 21 Aug, 22 At 14:57
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

I am finding this current situation re the spares very confusing. What was hailed as a great triumph for the club seems to have turned into an albatross around its neck. I wonder how the extremely generous member who donated the money to buy the spares feels about it now?
What is further complicating matters is the plan to give the spares to another Limited Company that is owned by 2 BOC members on behalf of the membership. Are we allowed to know who these 2 mystery members are? Also, given that a new Limited Company has already been established to manage the parts, why not simply pass ownership to that organisation?
Another possibility, although it maybe heresy to some, might be to join forces with Pegasus, the spares organisation of BODA. I assume they have experience in handling issues relating to storing and selling parts to members and may be able to come up with some answers.
The lack of information and consultation with the membership has created a situation which has lead to confusion and disillusionment and a number of resignations of senior figures. I hope this will soon be resolved.


John Tullett
 

Hello Geoff,

It was in answer to someone on the forum enquiring of the company BOC Ltd. I copied you in as I wasn't sure if it would be allowed to be posted. I copied Geoff Hawkins as well as he wrote in offering instructions to how to search for the names of the directors and I simply thought it would have been easier for him to declare himself a director, as he is. Mark Alford is the other.

Apologies for the confusion but it was intended to be sent to you.

Regards

John

Geoff Kingston via groups.io wrote on 23/08/2022 19:00:

John,

I think there must be too many Geoff's in the BOC! It was my post about the availability of the information on the Directors on the Companies House Website. I have three dormant companies registered there myself but none of them are the Bristol Owners Club Limited which I have never had any involvement in.

Geoff Kingston.




------ Original Message ------
From: "John Tullett" <John.tullett@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Cc: "'Geoff Hawkins'" <geoffrey.hawkins@...>; "'GEOFF KINGSTON'" <geoffkingston15@...>
Sent: Tuesday, 23 Aug, 22 At 09:45
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

As an observation I would have thought this information might be offered directly from the committee to save 500 people having to individually research the information. Especially as one of the directors of that company has replied with the basic information here.

None of this information is covered by GDPR and is therefore quite safe to publish on this members forum.

John

From: bocforum@groups.io <bocforum@groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Kingston via groups.io
Sent: 21 August 2022 23:24
To: bocforum@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

The information on the current directors of Bristol Owners Club Limited is freely available on the companies house website , please note that I abbreviated Limited to Ltd in my original post and as Companies House will accept either designation that was a slight error which may hinder search results so just go for Bristol Owners Club Limited Companies House and you will have your answer, and then keep checking in case there are resignations and/or new appointments.

Geoff.



------ Original Message ------
From: "boblivermore" <boblivermore@...>
To: bocforum@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 21 Aug, 22 At 14:57
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

I am finding this current situation re the spares very confusing. What was hailed as a great triumph for the club seems to have turned into an albatross around its neck. I wonder how the extremely generous member who donated the money to buy the spares feels about it now?
What is further complicating matters is the plan to give the spares to another Limited Company that is owned by 2 BOC members on behalf of the membership. Are we allowed to know who these 2 mystery members are? Also, given that a new Limited Company has already been established to manage the parts, why not simply pass ownership to that organisation?
Another possibility, although it maybe heresy to some, might be to join forces with Pegasus, the spares organisation of BODA. I assume they have experience in handling issues relating to storing and selling parts to members and may be able to come up with some answers.
The lack of information and consultation with the membership has created a situation which has lead to confusion and disillusionment and a number of resignations of senior figures. I hope this will soon be resolved.



Geoff Kingston
 

An Update, on the 30th August I wrote to the new Chairman of the BOC regarding the urgent need to change the operating arrangements of the club and bring them under the protection of a Company Limited by Guarantee, I sent a follow up email and reminder this Monday and a copy of both emails to the hon secretary on Tuesday.
Response to date absolutely nothing not even an acknowledgement.
Obviously far more important things to consider like the next lunch at the Chelsey Arts Club. 


Dorien
 

No Geoff...they have a contract out on you. Beware of strange parcels....

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 06:43:47 p.m. EDT, Geoff Kingston via groups.io <geoffkingston15@...> wrote:


An Update, on the 30th August I wrote to the new Chairman of the BOC regarding the urgent need to change the operating arrangements of the club and bring them under the protection of a Company Limited by Guarantee, I sent a follow up email and reminder this Monday and a copy of both emails to the hon secretary on Tuesday.
Response to date absolutely nothing not even an acknowledgement.
Obviously far more important things to consider like the next lunch at the Chelsey Arts Club. 


Geoff Kingston
 

Dorien if the the postman rings once and runs like hell I shall duck!



------ Original Message ------
From: "Dorien via groups.io" <hydroglen@...>
To: "bocforum@groups.io" <bocforum@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, 10 Sep, 22 At 00:20
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

No Geoff...they have a contract out on you. Beware of strange parcels....

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 06:43:47 p.m. EDT, Geoff Kingston via groups.io <geoffkingston15@...> wrote:


An Update, on the 30th August I wrote to the new Chairman of the BOC regarding the urgent need to change the operating arrangements of the club and bring them under the protection of a Company Limited by Guarantee, I sent a follow up email and reminder this Monday and a copy of both emails to the hon secretary on Tuesday.
Response to date absolutely nothing not even an acknowledgement.
Obviously far more important things to consider like the next lunch at the Chelsey Arts Club.


Frank Miller
 
Edited


            Geoff Kingston>>>         
          Dorien if the the postman rings once and runs like hell I shall duck!


                 Excuse the ignorance of a member from The Colonies, but I thought;
"The Postman Always Rings Twice"?

Not Frank, but Peter, 403 in Calif


Dorien
 

You may well be right...but Geoff is in Wales, and sometimes things are done differently there.......

Dorien



On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 05:01:21 p.m. EDT, Frank Miller via groups.io <pncamarillo@...> wrote:


      
            Geoff Kingston>>>         
          Dorien if the the postman rings once and runs like hell I shall duck!


                 Excuse the ignorance of a member from The Colonies, but I thought;
"The Postman Always Rings Twice"?


Geoff Kingston
 

Too right !

Geoff,




------ Original Message ------
From: "Dorien via groups.io" <hydroglen@...>
To: "bocforum@groups.io" <bocforum@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, 19 Sep, 22 At 22:47
Subject: Re: [bocforum] The Bristol Owners Club Ltd, The BOC and a drastic need for change.

You may well be right...but Geoff is in Wales, and sometimes things are done differently there.......

Dorien



On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 05:01:21 p.m. EDT, Frank Miller via groups.io <pncamarillo@...> wrote:



Geoff Kingston>>>
Dorien if the the postman rings once and runs like hell I shall duck!


Excuse the ignorance of a member from The Colonies, but I thought;
"The Postman Always Rings Twice"?