Topics

Should I discontinue the iOS edition?

Richard Russell
 

More than 40 people have, to date, supplied me with the UDIDs of their iOS device(s) - iPhones and iPads mainly - in order that I can enable the installation and use of BBC BASIC on them.  Every time it involves the rather tedious process of registering their device(s) with Apple, creating and downloading a new Provisioning Profile containing their UDID(s), rebuilding BBCSDL with that profile (which I can only do on a Mac) and uploading it to the website. I then have to email the user individually to inform them that their device has been registered, and to provide details of how they can download and install BBC BASIC.

So I've now done that more than 40 times, but not once (well, perhaps once but no more than that) has anybody ever acknowledged receipt of that email, nor confirmed that they've managed to install BBC BASIC, nor thanked me for my efforts, nor shown any appreciation whatsoever of the product (which of course is entirely free).  Does anybody think I should continue to provide this service?

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

Thanks for BBC Basic for iOS, it works very well on iPad and iPhone.

Whilst I'm very pleased and most grateful to have the iOS version of BBC Basic, I'm still struggling to import my own code without recourse to iTunes, which causes me a number of issues that are beyond the scope of this mailing list. Would it be possible to somehow paste listings from the clipboard into BBC Basic for iOS or perhaps implement read/write support for the recently implemented iOS Files app?

The other matter that we corresponded about in March last year was the ability to change autorun.bbc, or at least to chain my own file from autorun.bbc - this would be a handy way to develop apps for non-technical users to launch.

Hopefully I'm not the only active user... 

Thanks again

Darren



On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 at 23:48, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
More than 40 people have, to date, supplied me with the UDIDs of their iOS device(s) - iPhones and iPads mainly - in order that I can enable the installation and use of BBC BASIC on them.  Every time it involves the rather tedious process of registering their device(s) with Apple, creating and downloading a new Provisioning Profile containing their UDID(s), rebuilding BBCSDL with that profile (which I can only do on a Mac) and uploading it to the website. I then have to email the user individually to inform them that their device has been registered, and to provide details of how they can download and install BBC BASIC.

So I've now done that more than 40 times, but not once (well, perhaps once but no more than that) has anybody ever acknowledged receipt of that email, nor confirmed that they've managed to install BBC BASIC, nor thanked me for my efforts, nor shown any appreciation whatsoever of the product (which of course is entirely free).  Does anybody think I should continue to provide this service?

pez.arg
 

Welcome to the Software -obviously New to you- World of
Giving for Nothing !

: )

Hello.

Could you, clarify for me, please, why you invited me to
participate:

- to this list, if someone insists to delete posts ?

- to that forum, where someone "guest" insists to have the last
word - not only to my theme COMPLEX in the Mathematics section ?

- to github, where someone has to explain sometime, what he is
expecting from me to do in that project ?

Sincerely,

Petros Zimourtopoulos

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Russell" <news@...>
To: <bb4w@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 00:48
Subject: [bb4w] Should I discontinue the iOS edition?


More than 40 people have, to date, supplied me with the UDIDs of their iOS device(s) - iPhones and iPads mainly - in order that I
can enable the installation and use of BBC BASIC on them. Every time it involves the rather tedious process of registering their
device(s) with Apple, creating and downloading a new Provisioning Profile containing their UDID(s), rebuilding BBCSDL with that
profile (which I can only do on a Mac) and uploading it to the website. I then have to email the user individually to inform them
that their device has been registered, and to provide details of how they can download and install BBC BASIC.

So I've now done that more than 40 times, but not once (well, perhaps once but no more than that) has anybody ever acknowledged
receipt of that email, nor confirmed that they've managed to install BBC BASIC, nor thanked me for my efforts, nor shown any
appreciation whatsoever of the product (which of course is entirely free). Does anybody think I should continue to provide this
service?

John Alfred
 

Yes, please continue your much appreciated efforts !

I'm playing with BASIC on my iPhone now.

Is it still being evaluated by apple?

Cheers
John



From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2019, 23:48
Subject: [bb4w] Should I discontinue the iOS edition?

More than 40 people have, to date, supplied me with the UDIDs of their iOS device(s) - iPhones and iPads mainly - in order that I can enable the installation and use of BBC BASIC on them.  Every time it involves the rather tedious process of registering their device(s) with Apple, creating and downloading a new Provisioning Profile containing their UDID(s), rebuilding BBCSDL with that profile (which I can only do on a Mac) and uploading it to the website. I then have to email the user individually to inform them that their device has been registered, and to provide details of how they can download and install BBC BASIC.

So I've now done that more than 40 times, but not once (well, perhaps once but no more than that) has anybody ever acknowledged receipt of that email, nor confirmed that they've managed to install BBC BASIC, nor thanked me for my efforts, nor shown any appreciation whatsoever of the product (which of course is entirely free).  Does anybody think I should continue to provide this service?


Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 12:30 AM, Storer, Darren wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow paste listings from the clipboard into BBC Basic for iOS
This is the first report I've had that 'paste' doesn't work.  It definitely works in Android (I used it only yesterday) and it's the same code.  As you would expect it calls the 'SDL_GetClipboardText' function but of course I'm relying on SDL2 having implemented it correctly.  I'll try it myself when I get an opportunity, but what exactly is the symptom: does 'paste' do nothing at all, or does it result in an error message, or what?

The other matter that we corresponded about in March last year was the ability to change autorun.bbc, or at least to chain my own file from autorun.bbc - this would be a handy way to develop apps for non-technical users to launch.

I do not remember the previous correspondence you mention (I'm afraid my short-term memory is shockingly bad for the reason you know) but presumably on that occasion I suggested, as a possible solution, the creation of a custom shortcut from the home screen.  That's the 'supported' method of launching BBC BASIC and automatically running a nominated program.  In my experience it works well - I have a shortcut to run 'ceefax.bbc' for example - but it does suffer from the weakness that once one BASIC program is running you cannot launch a second one (unlike Android, iOS doesn't seem to be able to run two instances of the same app).

So have you tried that method?  Does it not meet your requirements?  In any event there should certainly be no need to modify 'autorun.bbc' since the ability to run a different BASIC program at startup is a feature of all editions of BBCSDL.

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 01:31 AM, John Alfred wrote:
Is it still being evaluated by apple?
Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "being evaluated by Apple".  BBC BASIC has nothing to do with Apple, apart from the need to register individual users with them as discussed (they would no doubt argue that allowing anybody to download an app, as Android does, is a security risk).  Indeed I'm probably contravening Apple's terms and conditions by making BBC BASIC available on iOS at all, but there's no other way. :(

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 06:05 AM, Richard Russell wrote:
but what exactly is the symptom: does 'paste' do nothing at all, or does it result in an error message, or what?
Another question to help with diagnosis: does paste work 'internally' to a BASIC program?  In other words is it only pasting from another app that isn't working, or is the entire copy/paste mechanism apparently broken in BBC BASIC?  If you can paste from one part of a program to another, or from one BASIC program to a different one, then it sounds as though something in iOS is blocking pasting from a different app.  Perhaps there's some setting I need to make in the plist file to allow it.

John Alfred
 

Sorry, I'm probably a little confused ...

I thought the 'evaluation' by the 40+ volunteers was in order to convince Apple that BBC BASIC is a safe product to be offered on their Store, iTunes?

Regardless of whether Apple approves it or not, it's a product that could be used by the IT community. What other programming language is available that can work on the PC and also on an iPhone, and is available from the one source? Very few, if any, I would think.

Keep up the good work !

John




From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Monday, 7 January 2019, 6:20
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Should I discontinue the iOS edition?

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 01:31 AM, John Alfred wrote:
Is it still being evaluated by apple?
Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "being evaluated by Apple".  BBC BASIC has nothing to do with Apple, apart from the need to register individual users with them as discussed (they would no doubt argue that allowing anybody to download an app, as Android does, is a security risk).  Indeed I'm probably contravening Apple's terms and conditions by making BBC BASIC available on iOS at all, but there's no other way. :(


Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 10:39 AM, John Alfred wrote:
I thought the 'evaluation' by the 40+ volunteers was in order to convince Apple that BBC BASIC is a safe product to be offered on their Store, iTunes?
Sadly not!  BBC BASIC is a general purpose programming language and as such is absolutely forbidden on the App Store.   You won't find any programming languages there (the only exception is 'toy' languages which display the program's output in a small window to make it obvious that it is not from the app itself).

I understand Apple's position on this: they want every app available from the App Store to be 'safe', but if a programming language like BBC BASIC was allowed then you could write a BASIC program to do nefarious things and thus bypass the security.

What's annoying is that they don't allow the user an opt-out like Android does.  On Android you can basically say 'I understand the risk but I want to run it anyway' but on iOS there's no such option.  Therefore I'm forced to use the 'ad-hoc' distribution mechanism, but even that is strictly breaking the rules and Apple could (and probably would) block my developer account if they found out.  At that point BBC BASIC would cease to be available for iOS.

What it comes down to is that, if you use an Apple device running iOS, you have to accept the restrictions placed upon you by their 'we know better' culture.  If you don't like it, switch to Android!

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 12:30 AM, Storer, Darren wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow paste listings from the clipboard into BBC Basic for iOS
It's looking as though the problem, whatever it is, is specific to your own setup.  I've just tried pasting from Safari into BBC BASIC via the clipboard, and it worked perfectly fine here.  I was able to copy-and-paste a program and run it (the only annoying thing was that the 'Select All' link at the forum doesn't appear to work in Safari, but that's unrelated to BBC BASIC).  This was on an iPod Touch running iOS 12.1.1 (16C50) so fully up-to-date.

So I'm afraid I have no idea why pasting from the clipboard isn't working for you.  You didn't reply to my follow-up asking whether copy/paste is working within BBC BASIC and fails only when pasting from another app; that would still be of interest.  Is anybody else having the same problem with the iOS edition?

mclout@...
 

No, that is rude as hell and flyes in the face of basic courtesy.  Send them all an email saying your welcome an that you are terminating their version.  It is sad that you have to go through so much hassle for an IOS device but that is Apple for you.  If their chosen vender suck as bad as they do then spend your time more profitable endeavors.  Your time is now more precious to us all and that you are spending any of helping us all out is laudable. I for my part extend thanks to you for all you have done to ensure the legacy of your wonderful language going forward long after you have regrettably passed on to your reward.  Have a wonderful day,  

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 03:56 PM, <mclout@...> wrote:
Send them all an email saying your welcome an that you are terminating their version. 
I'd never do that, but the range of opinions is interesting: from "Welcome to the Software World of Giving for Nothing" to "rude as hell and flies in the face of basic courtesy"!  Some software authors probably get sufficient satisfaction from simply making things work that they don't really care whether it's used or appreciated by anybody else.  I'm not in that category; I have little personal interest in, or use for, most of the software I write so if it's not of value to anybody else I wouldn't bother to write it in the first place!

Ironically I tend to get more appreciative feedback for programs that people have to pay for (i.e. the full version of 'BBC BASIC for Windows') than I do for my free software.  Having paid a substantial amount of money they really needn't feel obliged to offer their thanks, but frequently they do nevertheless.  Perhaps free software is thought to be 'worthless', precisely because it costs nothing.  There may also simply not be an appreciation of how much time and effort is expended in the process of registering devices with Apple and releasing new versions with the necessary authorisations included.

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 12:30 AM, Storer, Darren wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow paste listings from the clipboard into BBC Basic for iOS....
the ability to change autorun.bbc, or at least to chain my own file from autorun.bbc….
Since you've not responded to my suggestions and follow-ups (nor to my attempt to make contact via Facebook Messenger) I am assuming that the issues have now resolved themselves, or at least are no longer a cause of frustration.   If that's not the case, please post again.