Topics

Mobile devices poll #poll

Richard Russell
 

I've created this poll to get a feel for the potential market for, and degree of interest in, the Android version of BBC BASIC.  Please select from the following choices according to what 'smart' mobile device (if any) you own.   Eventually I will merge the results here with those of the similar poll posted at the Conforums Board, so please don't vote at both.

Richard.

Results

wilsr747
 

On 20/01/2017 3:57, Richard Russell wrote:

A new poll has been created:

I've created this poll to get a feel for the potential market for, and degree of interest in, the Android version of BBC BASIC. Please select from the following choices according to what 'smart' mobile device (if any) you own. Eventually I will merge the results here with those of the similar poll posted at the Conforums Board, so please don't vote at both.

Richard.

1. None
2. Apple iOS (e.g. iPhone or iPad)
3. Android phone or tablet (ARM CPU)
4. Android phone or tablet (Intel CPU)
5. Android, but I don't know the CPU
6. Windows phone / Windows RT
7. Something else (e.g. Blackberry)
8. I'd rather not say

Vote Now <https://groups.io/g/bb4w/vote?pollid=330>

=====================================================
Richard - that link doesn't work. There's two versions of the intro, one truncated, but no actual list or poll.

FWIW I have an Android Not Pro 12.2" with Samsung Exynos CPU.

Rog W

Richard Russell
 

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 03:34 pm, wilsr747 wrote:
Richard - that link doesn't work.

Yes it does!  Probably you forgot to log into the group first.  A pitfall of email 'mailing lists' is that after a while people can forget that when they need to access the group at its web interface, which they do in order to vote in a poll, they must be logged in first.

Personally I only ever access this group via its web interface, just as I did with the old Yahoo group, so I have to be logged in all the time.

Richard.


wilsr747
 

On 20/01/2017 10:40, Richard Russell wrote:
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 03:34 pm, wilsr747 wrote:

Richard - that link doesn't work.

Yes it does! Probably you forgot to log into the group first. A pitfall of email 'mailing lists' is that after a while people can forget that when they need to access the group at its web interface, which they do in order to vote in a poll, they must be logged in first.

Personally I only ever access this group via its web interface, just as I did with the old Yahoo group, so I have to be logged in all the time.

Richard.

==========================================================================
Yes, I did log in - but wasn't taken by the link to the log in page. Just tried again and it worked differently. Still not intuitive how to access the poll but managed it!

Great work on BBC4W, BTW.

Rog W

Andrew Bogue
 

Link provided does not take you to a poll
And yes I did log in!

Sent from my iPad

On 20 Jan 2017, at 10:18, wilsr747 <wilsr@...> wrote:

On 20/01/2017 10:40, Richard Russell wrote:
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 03:34 pm, wilsr747 wrote:

Richard - that link doesn't work.

Yes it does! Probably you forgot to log into the group first. A pitfall of email 'mailing lists' is that after a while people can forget that when they need to access the group at its web interface, which they do in order to vote in a poll, they must be logged in first.

Personally I only ever access this group via its web interface, just as I did with the old Yahoo group, so I have to be logged in all the time.

Richard.

==========================================================================
Yes, I did log in - but wasn't taken by the link to the log in page. Just tried again and it worked differently. Still not intuitive how to access the poll but managed it!

Great work on BBC4W, BTW.

Rog W


Abd Al-Latif
 

It worked fine for me!

-----Original Message-----
From: bb4w@groups.io [mailto:bb4w@groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrew Bogue
Sent: 20 January 2017 02:50
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Mobile devices poll #poll

Link provided does not take you to a poll And yes I did log in!

Sent from my iPad

On 20 Jan 2017, at 10:18, wilsr747 <wilsr@...> wrote:

On 20/01/2017 10:40, Richard Russell wrote:
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 03:34 pm, wilsr747 wrote:

Richard - that link doesn't work.

Yes it does! Probably you forgot to log into the group first. A pitfall of email 'mailing lists' is that after a while people can forget that when they need to access the group at its web interface, which they do in order to vote in a poll, they must be logged in first.

Personally I only ever access this group via its web interface, just as I did with the old Yahoo group, so I have to be logged in all the time.

Richard.

=====================================================================
=====
Yes, I did log in - but wasn't taken by the link to the log in page. Just tried again and it worked differently. Still not intuitive how to access the poll but managed it!

Great work on BBC4W, BTW.

Rog W


Dave Sergeant
 

Likewise, I am still not sure how I eventually got to the poll but did
eventually after clicking through several 'poll' links. Polls don't
seem to be done very logically on groups.io.

I voted as per what I actually have, but my tablet is used very rarely
and only when I am away from home. Even if there were a version of BB4W
available for it I am not sure I would ever use it on it.

Dave

On 20 Jan 2017 at 12:18, wilsr747 wrote:
Yes, I did log in - but wasn't taken by the link to the log in page.
Just tried again and it worked differently. Still not intuitive how to
access the poll but managed it!

http://davesergeant.com

Richard Russell
 

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:44 pm, Dave Sergeant wrote:
Polls don't seem to be done very logically on groups.io.

I can't explain why it seems to be working fine for most people (you see the message and the poll together, with no 'clicking-through' involved) but not for some others.  I wonder if it's a browser compatibility issue, FWIW I'm using Microsoft Edge.

> Even if there were a version of BB4W available for it I am not sure I would ever use it on it.

Fair enough, but I'd like to think you are not typical.  I would expect a true BBC BASIC fan (it's not 'BBC BASIC for Windows', to be pedantic) to welcome having it 'instantly' available, if only as a sophisticated programmable calculator or for tinkering with small programming tasks whilst on a train or plane journey for example.  It's also, as I have found myself, quite a talking point if you are with somebody who has, for example, an iPhone (Apple don't allow 'general purpose' programming apps with the ability to access OS API functions and assembler code)!  I'm inclined to show them MODE7DEM emulating a teletext page (or Roger McGough's poem) and to inquire whether their phone can do that :-)

But if I'm really in a minority of one I'd like to know because it would save me a lot of effort in preparing the next release.  It will include updates to the Linux and Mac OS editions as well, of course, but this time round I'm concentrating on Android because it's been a bit neglected since Intel announced they were dropping x86 support for 'mobile' devices.

Richard.

Richard Russell
 

It's interesting that nobody has (yet) selected the 'None' option.  A year ago that's the answer I would have given, because then I had no kind of smart mobile device at all (just a dumb cellphone, with nothing more than a VGA resolution camera).  Admittedly I can't say the same now, since to develop the Android version of BBC BASIC I've needed to acquire devices to test it on: I now have four!

Richard.


Ian_Wade_G3NRW
 

On 20/01/2017 20:07, Richard Russell wrote:

It's interesting that nobody has (yet) selected the 'None' option. A year ago that's the answer I would have given, because then I had no kind of smart mobile device at all (just a dumb cellphone, with nothing more than a VGA resolution camera). Admittedly I can't say the same now, since to develop the Android version of BBC BASIC I've needed to acquire devices to test it on: I now have four!

Richard.
Oh, all right then. I admit it. I don't have a "smart" phone. Just a 1990s-vintage Nokia Mars Bar. I can make and receive calls, and I believe you can also send/receive text messages (but I'm not sure exactly how). Does that qualify?

--
73
Ian, G3NRW
g3nrw@...

Richard Russell
 

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 01:01 pm, Ian_Wade_G3NRW wrote:
Does that qualify?

I tried to cover all bases in the poll, so surely there's a category which applies: probably 'None' or 'I'd rather not say'.  Do you have an objection to voting?

Richard.

Paul Marshall
 

I regularly use a smart phone and a tablet, both ARM based Android.   I was a big fan of the Archimedes and Basic 5, ARM assembler was such a joy!  Its sad but understandable that no such programming app exists for ARM Android. I tried B4A (Basic for Android) for a while but i cant say that i enjoyed it. It's unlikely I shall go for an x86 mobile now.


Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 07:13 am, <paulmarshall2020@...> wrote:
I tried B4A (Basic for Android) for a while but i cant say that i enjoyed it.

I know very little about it, but B4A appears to be more a tool for creating Android apps than for actually running an interactive BASIC interpreter on the device itself (or does it do that as well?).   I've gone down the different road of concentrating (initially, at least) not on creating standalone applications but of providing a version of BBC BASIC that installs and runs on the Android device.  You can of course write your own BASIC programs using the built-in editor, but at this stage you can only run them 'from' BBC BASIC rather than separately.

If there is enthusiasm for the next release (and you may find it interesting) I intend to look into the possibility of creating a new icon that will automatically launch the BASIC program, as if it was a standalone app (but BBC BASIC will still need to be installed).  Creating a genuine self-contained app from a BBC BASIC program may be possible too, but probably not in the short term and almost certainly requiring a tool to be run on a PC.

Richard.

Paul Marshall
 

B4A runs on a PC to compile android apps. It includes a simulator so you can see how it would look on the android screen. As a programming environment it was ok but the basic was well, basic. But it did the job I needed. It was an early version, updates are expensive and I did not pursue it. 

I am so appreciative of your work Richard since right back to the Z80 days but I'm afraid my use of BBC Basic falls into the programmable calculator category now. (My 'main' programming is in Delphi.) I recall i wanted to know the area of two intersecting circles. I quickly wrote a couple of lines in BBC Basic to plot two circles to scale on the screen and count the lit pixels. No other language that I know can do that so easily and it was near enough. I am unlikely to write code on an Android as long as there is a PC around but it would certainly be good to run an Android app in Basic from an icon.

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 02:26 am, <paulmarshall2020@...> wrote:
My 'main' programming is in Delphi.

I suppose I should ask why you use Delphi in preference to BBC BASIC, but perhaps I wouldn't like the answer!  I still use BBC BASIC for (virtually) all my programming tasks, both because it's the only language I know comprehensively (albeit that I am forgetting more and more), and because it does everything I need.  Admittedly I drop into assembler code, occasionally, if the speed of interpreted BASIC isn't good enough, but that's very rare.

Despite my best efforts I've never been entirely successful in persuading people that BB4W is more than just a port to Windows of the language that ran on the BBC Micro.  I still receive, from time to time, enquiries of the "can it do [insert some task here]?" kind, to which I have to reply, wearily, "it's a general purpose programming language, it can do anything".  OK, that's an approximation to the truth but it makes the point.

Anyway, in my declining state of health and mental faculties there really isn't anything else I can do other than to doggedly support BBC BASIC and do what little I can to promote it.  The alternative is just giving up, which admittedly I've come close to doing on more than one occasion.  I am still greatly distressed at having been hounded out of the BB4W forum, and my return having recently been vetoed.  But hey ho....

Richard. 

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 02:46 am, Richard Russell wrote:
I still use BBC BASIC for (virtually) all my programming tasks

I really should have said "BBC BASIC or Liberty BASIC", because I use the latter a lot too.

Richard.


 

Who was it who vetoed you, because the poll was overwhelmingly in favour of you returning.  My recollection it's that only one person voted against your return.  Of this was the individual who vetoed your return then I know who I would prefer to be on the site.  I'm happy to day I voted for your return.

Ray.

Sent from my android device.
From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Mobile devices poll #poll

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 02:26 am, <paulmarshall2020@...> wrote:
My 'main' programming is in Delphi.

I suppose I should ask why you use Delphi in preference to BBC BASIC, but perhaps I wouldn't like the answer!  I still use BBC BASIC for (virtually) all my programming tasks, both because it's the only language I know comprehensively (albeit that I am forgetting more and more), and because it does everything I need.  Admittedly I drop into assembler code, occasionally, if the speed of interpreted BASIC isn't good enough, but that's very rare.

Despite my best efforts I've never been entirely successful in persuading people that BB4W is more than just a port to Windows of the language that ran on the BBC Micro.  I still receive, from time to time, enquiries of the "can it do [insert some task here]?" kind, to which I have to reply, wearily, "it's a general purpose programming language, it can do anything".  OK, that's an approximation to the truth but it makes the point.

Anyway, in my declining state of health and mental faculties there really isn't anything else I can do other than to doggedly support BBC BASIC and do what little I can to promote it.  The alternative is just giving up, which admittedly I've come close to doing on more than one occasion.  I am still greatly distressed at having been hounded out of the BB4W forum, and my return having recently been vetoed.  But hey ho....

Richard. 

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 03:12 am, Ray Would wrote:
Who was it who vetoed you,

I don't know, because I gave up reading the forum myself after a particularly unkind message was posted.  But I have received information, which I have no reason to doubt, that two people replied in the 'over my dead body' vein.  I'm sure that in those circumstances I would find it even more upsetting to attempt to return than to remain an outcast.

Richard.

 

It it's a shame that some people are so small minded and full of their own importance that they put their feelings above the benefits of the many.

Ray

Sent from my android device.
From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Mobile devices poll #poll

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 03:12 am, Ray Would wrote:
Who was it who vetoed you,

I don't know, because I gave up reading the forum myself after a particularly unkind message was posted.  But I have received information, which I have no reason to doubt, that two people replied in the 'over my dead body' vein.  I'm sure that in those circumstances I would find it even more upsetting to attempt to return than to remain an outcast.

Richard.

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 03:32 am, Ray Would wrote:
some people are so small minded and full of their own importance that they put their feelings above the benefits of the many.

I want to be scrupulously fair here.  I think you'll find that it is "the many" that they claim to be protecting.  Their oft-repeated complaint, and I know that there is an element of truth in it, is that the 'tone' of some of my replies is such that it actively discourages members from posting queries or even from remaining BBC BASIC users.  According to that belief my return to the forum would be damaging.

I have to admit that there is clearly a reluctance on the part of even some long-standing BBC BASIC users to engage with me.  When I was monitoring the BB4W forum there was occasionally a 'technical' query to which I knew the answer but none of the current forum members seemed to.  On those occasions it was common for the forum admin David Marples to suggest that they contact me, either directly or via 'my' forum. I think only once did anybody do so.

Richard.

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