Topics

BBCSDL version numbering

Richard Russell
 

It's a little over three years since BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 first appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0 version numbers as befits a product still under development.  However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much 'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?

Daniel Bingamon
 

Richard,

I've installed it on three devices (one PC, an android smart phone "One-touch Venture phone" and an Irulu Tablet also running Android, I'm impressed with it.  It's amazingly cross-platform.

Daniel Bingamon

On 1/28/2019 7:50 AM, Richard Russell wrote:
It's a little over three years since BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 first appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0 version numbers as befits a product still under development.  However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much 'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
I've installed it on three devices
That's good to know, but you didn't express an opinion on whether the time is right to bump the version to 1.00!

Richard.

dhillerby10
 

Evening Richard.

I can't comment on BBCSDL's cross-platform flexibility as although I do have a desktop, laptop, tablet and mobile phone they all run various versions of Windows 10.

If BBCSDL is now complete and running without any problems, then I would say yes move it to version 1.00 otherwise the danger is that it ends up being in a development phase forever, which would be a shame if the product is now finished.

Darran.

Sent from Outlook


From: bb4w@groups.io <bb4w@groups.io> on behalf of Richard Russell <news@...>
Sent: 28 January 2019 23:27
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bb4w] BBCSDL version numbering
 
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
I've installed it on three devices
That's good to know, but you didn't express an opinion on whether the time is right to bump the version to 1.00!

Richard.

R NBW
 

Richard

I think the product is mature enough now to designate as 1.0.  I think it is important to get away from it being a product in development to generate interest.  I think people like to think that a product will be relatively bug-free and getting it out of the development stage does provide a bit of confidence (although this isn't always the case with some products).  As you say there are some 'missing' capabilities.  However, you are a stickler for removing bugs and so users can have confidence in the product.

I hope most users agree with this.  If you do just respond YES and give Richard  some encouragement.  BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 is a superb product.

Ray

On 28 Jan 2019, at 12:50 pm, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
It's a little over three years since BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 first appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0 version numbers as befits a product still under development.  However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much 'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?

8mbgmgs@...
 

Hello Richard,

From my experience of using BBCSDL for a few small projects since mid 2018, my personal opinion is that this is a good time to increase the version number to 1.00.

Regards,
PM

DBZ FOREVER!!! !!! !!!

J.G.Harston
 

On 28-01-2019 12:50, Richard Russell wrote:
So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version
number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development'
Yes, I think it's mature enough to be v1.00. I haven't got around to
installing it on this laptop, but I was using it on my desktop a
couple of days ago and hadn't spotted anything keeping it in 0.xx

--
J.G.Harston - jgh@... - mdfs.net/jgh

J.G.Harston
 

On 29-01-2019 20:48, J.G.Harston wrote:
On 28-01-2019 12:50, Richard Russell wrote:
So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version
number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development'
Yes, I think it's mature enough to be v1.00. I haven't got around to
installing it on this laptop, but I was using it on my desktop a
couple of days ago and hadn't spotted anything keeping it in 0.xx
I've just installed 0.29a on this laptop and am going through a few
programs, and there's a small handfull of things cropping up. I'll
email later.

--
J.G.Harston - jgh@... - mdfs.net/jgh

Gordon Walker
 

I agree. Version 1 is right for BBCSDL now.

Gordon


On Tue, 29 Jan 2019, 20:18 R NBW <rnbwould@... wrote:
Richard

I think the product is mature enough now to designate as 1.0.  I think it is important to get away from it being a product in development to generate interest.  I think people like to think that a product will be relatively bug-free and getting it out of the development stage does provide a bit of confidence (although this isn't always the case with some products).  As you say there are some 'missing' capabilities.  However, you are a stickler for removing bugs and so users can have confidence in the product.

I hope most users agree with this.  If you do just respond YES and give Richard  some encouragement.  BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 is a superb product.

Ray

On 28 Jan 2019, at 12:50 pm, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
It's a little over three years since BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 first appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0 version numbers as befits a product still under development.  However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much 'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?

Ken Orr
 

YES,   it IS time to move to 1.0!

Ken

On 29/01/2019 18:18, R NBW wrote:
Richard

I think the product is mature enough now to designate as 1.0.  I think it is important to get away from it being a product in development to generate interest.  I think people like to think that a product will be relatively bug-free and getting it out of the development stage does provide a bit of confidence (although this isn't always the case with some products).  As you say there are some 'missing' capabilities.  However, you are a stickler for removing bugs and so users can have confidence in the product.

I hope most users agree with this.  If you do just respond YES and give Richard  some encouragement.  BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 is a superb product.

Ray

On 28 Jan 2019, at 12:50 pm, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
It's a little over three years since BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 first appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0 version numbers as befits a product still under development.  However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much 'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?

vclements@tiscali.co.uk
 

Yes! and thank you

----Original Message----
From: orr.ken@...
Date: 29/01/2019 23:47
To: <bb4w@groups.io>
Subj: Re: [bb4w] BBCSDL version numbering

YES,   it IS time to move to 1.0!

Ken

On 29/01/2019 18:18, R NBW wrote:
Richard

I think the product is mature enough now to designate as 1.0.  I
think
it is important to get away from it being a product in development
to
generate interest.  I think people like to think that a product will
be relatively bug-free and getting it out of the development stage
does provide a bit of confidence (although this isn't always the
case
with some products).  As you say there are some 'missing'
capabilities. However, you are a stickler for removing bugs and so
users can have confidence in the product.

I hope most users agree with this.  If you do just respond YES and
give Richard  some encouragement.  BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 is a superb
product.

Ray

Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=14344>
On 28 Jan 2019, at 12:50 pm, Richard Russell <news@...
<mailto:news@...>> wrote:

It's a little over three years since /BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0/
first
appeared, and since then new releases have been allocated pre-1.0
version numbers as befits a product still under development. 
However it has now reached a stage where it is pretty much
'complete'; there are a few 'missing' capabilities such as any
support for hardcopy output (e.g. printers) and a couple of
graphics features (segments/chords and outline shapes with
variable thickness) but these are largely out of my control.

So the question arises: has the time now arrived to bump the
version number to '1.00' and remove the 'currently under
development' description?  What do you think?  Has anybody been
hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if
so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a
suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry
Pi)
and have still not installed it, why not?

lettersquash <j.r.freestone@...>
 

Hi Richard, I can't really comment on the 1.00 question, as I don't know the product that well (and you've reminded me that I'm doing it wrong: I've just published something as 1.0... when it should probably be 0.0...) but I thought I'd give a bit of feedback anyway.
Has anybody been hesitant to try BBCSDL because of its 'unfinished' status and if so would they be influenced by such a change?  If you have a suitable smartphone or tablet (or Mac or Linux PC or Raspberry Pi) and have still not installed it, why not?
I tried BBCSDL a couple of years ago on my Linux machine and there were a few bugs or incomplete things in the editor, which put me off a bit. I was switching to Linux as my main OS, but I changed my mind when I managed to salvage my other laptop's harddrive enough to reinstall Windows 7 Home Premium, which is now what I use almost exclusively. I am therefore generally perfectly happy (understatement!) with BB4W. I'm a hobbyist programmer, but with hopes of maybe publshing something "freemium" one day. Your post does encourage me to try the SDL version again on my Linux. I haven't done so yet.

It also encouraged me to try it on my Android phone, an HT3 Pro running Android 5.1. It's early days, but first impressions are a little disappointing. There seems to be no help file with it, but I got as far as seeing that I can long-tap on file names to bring up the menu to edit, etc. This has pretty enormous text, although the program listings are a fairly good compromise on a small screen - I realise programming on a phone is pushing it.

The navigation of the listings is weird, too, when I use the hardware Back button, it seems to navigate to some logic I haven't figured out yet, but neither always up the tree nor reversing through visited directories.

The editor is minimal, to say the least. I have no menu or other controls on screen, just the listing. Using something like Hacker's Keyboard, it works quite well to type into, but I've not yet found a way to select areas of text to copy or paste - this may be a limitation with the keyboard, and I have literally just tried it for half an hour.

Having no controls, there is no Save option, but going back to close it does bring up the option to save, abandon changes or cancel. In order to try writing a new program, I first tried the copy and paste option in the navigation screen, but the paste didn't happen as far as I can see. I tried searching for these in my file explorer app, but couldn't find any of them.

I did eventually find a way to create a text file with ".bbc" extension in another editor and save it in the @usr$ directory (maybe), which I could then open for editing. I let the program END, but found that this left me in the output window, and I couldn't find a way to exit this without restarting the app (hard-closing it first, as it stays in the background otherwise). I checked out the examples and added the error handler routine and REPEAT : WAIT 1 : UNTIL FALSE instead of END, and now it closes from the Back button.

I say I saved this to usr directory - I actually don't know what that is on Android. Neither of my file explorers finds any of the examples, which was the obvious place to start. I tried saving my helloworld.bbc file in other obvious places, and found that when it's in (Main Storage)... "/Android/data/com.rtrussell.bbcbasic/files/", the files navigator shows it when I click on "@usr$". Where are the example files, please?

As I say, these aren't big issues for me - I love writing programs in BB4W, and it does all I need it to do.

Cheers
John

Rob McKay
 

Hi Richard,

I think that it is time to bump the version number to 1.00.

In my professional life, I have found that version numbers and icon colours always seem to cause the longest and most divisive discussions.

If you are concerned that there are a few 'missing' capabilities then you (or someone else who knows) could always document the fact that they are missing and what happens when a missing feature is tried to be used. Since you have open sourced it ,others could always add the 'missing' capabilities if they really want them.

Thank you for your effort in getting BBCSDL this far.

Regards,

Rob.

Richard Russell
 

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 09:03 PM, lettersquash wrote:
It also encouraged me to try it on my Android phone, an HT3 Pro running Android 5.1. It's early days, but first impressions are a little disappointing.
Thank you for being so honest.  I suspect that responding in detail would not significantly change your opinion so I won't try to.  The one point I would make is that the answer to several of your questions can be found in the help info here which is linked from the download page.  I am desperately sorry that you are so disappointed.

lettersquash <j.r.freestone@...>
 

Thanks for your reply, Richard. I'm sorry now I wrote a bit too early, before finding the help page online. I looked, but, unless I missed it, it's not linked from any of the pages higher in that URL, and I'm not sure where it is linked from. Maybe something to check out. Knowing what I know now changes the picture entirely. That page has answered virtually all my questions and enabled me to do other things. Although I found the file context menu, I didn't think to try a long press on empty space, where I do indeed find the option to create a new file! For some reason, I didn't try pinching on the files list, nor on the editor, to alter the text size, nor try to drag the cursor to select text. Senior moment, although the last one was trying to use Ctrl-C etc. on the Hacker's Keyboard, which I've just installed.

One curiosity remains - why can't I search my files and find the example programs with my file explorer apps, although I can find my newly created one? Are they hidden, or am I having a senior moment with the Android file system too?

Much appreciate your help,
Cheers
John

Richard Russell
 

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:45 PM, lettersquash wrote:
I looked, but, unless I missed it, it's not linked from any of the pages higher in that URL
It's linked from the main BBCSDL page.  The third paragraph, beginning "The Android and iOS editions..." concludes "See here for more details" where the link is to that page.

the last one was trying to use Ctrl-C etc. on the Hacker's Keyboard, which I've just installed.
The 'Touch IDE' is not optimised for use with a keyboard (hardly surprisingly, I think).  Having said that, like all the BBCSDL IDEs it's written in straightforward BBC BASIC code and you are encouraged to play with it and create your own customised version (you would need to copy it first).  So if you would like it to support shortcuts like Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V feel free to add that functionality yourself, and to submit the modification to me for possible incorporation in the 'master' version.

If you want more sophisticated editing capabilities, and you have a desktop PC in the vicinity, you can always mount the Android file system as a remote drive (via a USB cable) and run any BBC BASIC editor - e.g. SDLIDE, BBCEdit or BB4W - at the PC end.  That would allow you to edit a program 'in situ' and instantly run it on the Android device. 

why can't I search my files and find the example programs with my file explorer apps, although I can find my newly created one? Are they hidden?
I'm not an Android expert (as I've said many times, the value of SDL's abstraction layer is that you can create an application for a platform that you know virtually nothing about).  But, yes, I think that files supplied in the application bundle (APK) are stored in a 'hidden' location that cannot normally be seen.  In the case of BBCSDL they are identical to (although a subset of) the files supplied with the other editions (Linux, MacOS etc.) so you can always access them 'en masse' that way.

lettersquash <j.r.freestone@...>
 

Hi Richard, thanks for the additional information.

That third paragraph is a bit misleading. It ends, "The Raspberry Pi edition may also be used in this mode if it has a touchscreen. See _here_ for more details." I thought the link was about the Pi only, so didn't go there.

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 12:05 AM, lettersquash wrote:
That third paragraph is a bit misleading
OK I've deleted the sentence about the Raspberry Pi, I hope that make the paragraph less ambiguous.