Topics

Alternative BB4W IDEs

Richard Russell
 

There are three IDEs (Integrated Development Environments) available for use with the full (paid for) version of BBC BASIC for Windows:
  • The standard IDE (bbcwin6.exe) supplied with BB4W, which is what is used by the vast majority of people.

  • bbcide.bbc which is an IDE written in non-portable BBC BASIC, i.e. it makes use of Windows API functions to reproduce a look-and-feel very similar to the default IDE (but is obviously much more amenable to customisation).

  • SDLIDE.bbc which is an IDE written in portable (cross platform) BBC BASIC, intended primarily for use with BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 but fully compatible with BBC BASIC for Windows. The look-and-feel is similar to the default IDE but since it cannot use the Windows API it is cosmetically different.
Although SDLIDE is compatible with BB4W, its debugging and profiling tools (e.g. sdldebug.bbc), and some of its add-in utilities (e.g. searchin.bbc), are not. Would there be more interest in using SDLIDE with BB4W if those tools and utilities were updated to be BB4W-compatible?

R NBW
 

Richard

 

Where would I find bbcide.bbc, to have a look at it.

 

Ray

 

From: Richard Russell
Sent: 04 April 2020 16:24
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: [bb4w] Alternative BB4W IDEs

 

There are three IDEs (Integrated Development Environments) available for use with the full (paid for) version of BBC BASIC for Windows:

  • The standard IDE (bbcwin6.exe) supplied with BB4W, which is what is used by the vast majority of people.
  • bbcide.bbc which is an IDE written in non-portable BBC BASIC, i.e. it makes use of Windows API functions to reproduce a look-and-feel very similar to the default IDE (but is obviously much more amenable to customisation).
  • SDLIDE.bbc which is an IDE written in portable (cross platform) BBC BASIC, intended primarily for use with BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 but fully compatible with BBC BASIC for Windows. The look-and-feel is similar to the default IDE but since it cannot use the Windows API it is cosmetically different.

Although SDLIDE is compatible with BB4W, its debugging and profiling tools (e.g. sdldebug.bbc), and some of its add-in utilities (e.g. searchin.bbc), are not. Would there be more interest in using SDLIDE with BB4W if those tools and utilities were updated to be BB4W-compatible?

 

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 04:41 PM, R NBW wrote:
Where would I find bbcide.bbc, to have a look at it.
I suspect it is one of those programs which was to be found at the old Yahoo! Group's Files area, but since Yahoo! Groups has gone 'email only' is no longer accessible.  I only included it in the set for completeness, otherwise somebody with a long memory was bound to say "but what about bbcide.bbc?".  But really it's been superseded by SDLIDE.bbc (which was derived from it by replacing the Windows's specific APIs with generic BBC BASIC code) and that's what my question was about.

If you're particularly interested in bbcide.bbc, but not SDLIDE.bbc (in which case I'd be interested to know why), I could probably hunt it out, but it would have to be on the basis of being completely unsupported.

R NBW
 

Just curiosity on my part.  Not so curious that I’d ask you to go delving through hundreds (nay possibly thousands) of files to find it.

 

Ray

 

 

From: Richard Russell
Sent: 04 April 2020 17:11
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Alternative BB4W IDEs

 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 04:41 PM, R NBW wrote:

Where would I find bbcide.bbc, to have a look at it.

I suspect it is one of those programs which was to be found at the old Yahoo! Group's Files area, but since Yahoo! Groups has gone 'email only' is no longer accessible.  I only included it in the set for completeness, otherwise somebody with a long memory was bound to say "but what about bbcide.bbc?".  But really it's been superseded by SDLIDE.bbc (which was derived from it by replacing the Windows's specific APIs with generic BBC BASIC code) and that's what my question was about.

If you're particularly interested in bbcide.bbc, but not SDLIDE.bbc (in which case I'd be interested to know why), I could probably hunt it out, but it would have to be on the basis of being completely unsupported.

 

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 05:29 PM, R NBW wrote:
Not so curious that I’d ask you to go delving through hundreds (nay possibly thousands) of files to find it.
Windows has a file search capability, so I'm sure I could find it!  :)  I just don't want it to distract from the reason for my post, which was to establish what interest there might be in using SDLIDE (specifically) with BB4W.  The trigger for all this was the enquiry about a Dark Mode, which SDLIDE has but bbcide hasn't.

 

I often wonder why people are interested in a dark mode.  I have always found it difficult to work with and always change to a lighter background and, if necessary dim the screen a little if there is too much glare.  But, everyone to their own tastes.  Personally, I am happy with BBC4W’s IDE.

 

Ray

 

 

From: Richard Russell
Sent: 04 April 2020 17:40
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Alternative BB4W IDEs

 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 05:29 PM, R NBW wrote:

Not so curious that I’d ask you to go delving through hundreds (nay possibly thousands) of files to find it.

Windows has a file search capability, so I'm sure I could find it!  :)  I just don't want it to distract from the reason for my post, which was to establish what interest there might be in using SDLIDE (specifically) with BB4W.  The trigger for all this was the enquiry about a Dark Mode, which SDLIDE has but bbcide hasn't.

 

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 05:48 PM, Ray Would wrote:
I often wonder why people are interested in a dark mode.
Dangerously provocative!  Anyway I've found 'bbcide' and put it here.  I hope it satisfies your curiosity but don't expect much support!

R NBW
 

“Dangerously provocative!”  I seem to have been there before.  Anyway, thank you for the copy of BBCIDE.bbc.  I’ll have a little play with it.

 

Ray

 

 

 

From: Richard Russell
Sent: 04 April 2020 18:47
To: bb4w@groups.io
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Alternative BB4W IDEs

 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 05:48 PM, Ray Would wrote:

I often wonder why people are interested in a dark mode.

Dangerously provocative!  Anyway I've found 'bbcide' and put it here.  I hope it satisfies your curiosity but don't expect much support!

 

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 07:55 PM, R NBW wrote:
I seem to have been there before. 
I'm sorry.  I'm afraid my condition (Alzheimer's Disease, most probably, according to the radiologist) means that I have difficulty finding the right words.

R NBW
 

Sorry Richard. I forgot about your condition.  It wasn't a comment aimed at you.  It was an issue I had in respect of Liberty Basic and LBB in which you gave me support.

Ray

On 4 Apr 2020, at 8:17 pm, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 07:55 PM, R NBW wrote:
I seem to have been there before. 
I'm sorry.  I'm afraid my condition (Alzheimer's Disease, most probably, according to the radiologist) means that I have difficulty finding the right words.

bb4w@...
 

Obviously, as per our recent discussion, I would be interested!

bb4w@...
 

... by full support of BB4W in SDLIDE, I mean!

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 09:05 AM, <bb4w@...> wrote:
Obviously, as per our recent discussion, I would be interested!
Nobody else, either here or at the forum, has expressed any interest; evidently they are satisfied with the standard IDE.  So I won't be adapting the debugger or profiler to run under BB4W, sorry.  What I have done is to modify SDLIDE.bbc so that the 'compile' utility works as expected in BB4W; this new version will be supplied with the next release of BBCSDL.

Despite the debugger and profilier not working in BB4W, I would encourage you still to try SDLIDE as an alternative IDE.  It has some nice features, including the Dark Mode, and it's a good example of what can be achieved using plain BBC BASIC code without help from the Windows GUI or assembly language.

bb4w@...
 

Many thanks for he update, Richard.
No worries, I will still continue to use BB4W standard IDE for now -- with the trick of temporarilly setting system-wide COLOR_WINDOW (together with COLOR_WINDOWTEXT, if I open a Windows system management tool window while editing a BASIC file, so that I can see something) -- as I need BB4W's Version Info and compiler tools anyway.

I didn't know/forgot about bbcide existence, though: I'll give it a try, including checking if I can circumvent the dependency on COLOR_WINDOW, and seemlessly use the above tools -- in that case all will be fine.

Richard Russell
 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:30 AM, <bb4w@...> wrote:
as I need BB4W's Version Info and compiler tools anyway.
I'm obviously not managing to make myself clear.  The 'alternative' IDEs (bbcide.bbc and SDLIDE.bbc, in the next release) use the same 'compiler' as does BB4W - they 'shell out' to bbcwin6.exe for that task - so the Version Info will be embedded into the EXE in exactly the same way as it is when using the default IDE so long as there's a REM!Resource compiler directive in your program.  All the other compiler directives have their usual effects too.

As far as editing the Version Info is concerned, that's a separate tool anyway (ADDINS\versioninfo.exe) which can be directly run from bbcide.bbc, or could be run from SDLIDE.bbc with very little effort.