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Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

Would it be possible to provide an archive of the BB4W Wiki before it closes? Some time ago I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.

Many thanks

Darren
 

On 12 February 2018 at 16:47, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
Wikispaces (who host the BB4W and LBB wiki) are closing down later in the year; here is the official announcement.

The two big advantages of Wikispaces over most other wiki hosting sites are the freedom from advertisements (and therefore the uncluttered nature of the pages) and the syntax colouring; it is the only wiki I know that supports syntax colouring for BBC BASIC.

We have discussed our options before, when Wikispaces introduced an annual subscription, but the very fact that people have been prepared to pay shows that no entirely satisfactory alternative has been identified.

Richard.


Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:16 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.
I think we established fairly recently that Wikispaces at some point 'changed the rules' and only an organiser (which means me or Jonathan) can initiate an export.  But before doing that we need to know in which format it will be most useful (there are nine different formats on offer!) and that in turn depends on where we propose to move it, if anywhere.  Previous attempts at making a decision have not got very far, but of course then we had the option of sticking with Wikispaces - at a cost.  Now we don't.

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 01:43 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
I have only one such program (apart from Dibley) 
Here's an APK of Dibley made using the new tool in its incomplete state:

  https://www.dropbox.com/s/muu8sr9ffurjweg/dibley.apk?dl=0

It was actually a valuable test because it showed that the Java tool I am using can't cope with files or directories starting with a 'dot' (which the resources directories .Demo, .Graphics and .Levels do in their BBCSDL forms).  I had to get rid of the dots to allow the APK to build; no great hassle but certainly something to be aware of.

Richard.

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Andrew Cool
 

Can we hedge our bets by exporting all 9 different formats?

 

Andrew


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Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the clarification about export formats. A quick Google search didn't bring up the list of export types but I did spot that static HTML was available; from a selfish viewpoint, this would serve my needs. 

Please could I have a static HTML export of the BB4W wiki? Whilst static an HTML version wouldn't be trivially extensible, it will be very easy to browse and on occasion I could manually update pages locally.

On the other hand, the option of PDF format was not attractive at all...

Many thanks

Darren

On 12 February 2018 at 22:10, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:16 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.
I think we established fairly recently that Wikispaces at some point 'changed the rules' and only an organiser (which means me or Jonathan) can initiate an export.  But before doing that we need to know in which format it will be most useful (there are nine different formats on offer!) and that in turn depends on where we propose to move it, if anywhere.  Previous attempts at making a decision have not got very far, but of course then we had the option of sticking with Wikispaces - at a cost.  Now we don't.

Richard.


Re: Bedstead font

Storer, Darren
 

Apologies for hijacking another thread but the references to MODE 7 reminded me that I've been trying in vain to run MODE 7 routines (mostly PC platform but later to run on Android) in full screen. 

There are a couple of techniques to run in full screen (with and without border) which both work but I'm struggling to scale the MODE 7 text to fill the screen... Any hints gratefully received.

Many thanks

Darren
PS. JGH: If the USB keyboard I lent you in Manchester is of any use, please keep it, otherwise I'll collect it at the next event we both attend - sorry I couldn't return on the Sunday. 

On 12 February 2018 at 15:24, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 06:27 am, J.G.Harston wrote:
Thirteen characters disappear off the right side of the screen,
Traditional teletext displays (i.e. on TV sets) have an aspect ratio much closer to 1:1 than the 4:3 aspect ratio of MODE 7, therefore the characters in the Bedstead font are also narrower: 12 pixels rather than the 16 pixels expected by MODE 7.  That means that about 53 characters rather than the usual 40 'fit' across the width of the screen; you can see this directly if you select MODE 6 rather than MODE 7.

In MODE 7 the character positioning is not determined by the character width (it is fixed at 40 characters per line) but the automatic end-of-line wrapping still is, which is why 13 characters are 'missing'.  One solution is to use the 'Bedstead-ext' font, which has the wanted 16-pixel width; had you checked the fonts supplied with BBCSDL you would have found that 'Bedstead-ext.otf' is included but 'Bedstead.otf' isn't.

Another solution is to force the character width to 16 pixels, overriding the value in the font file itself.  Generally you have to force the height anyway, in BB4W, because of the DPI issue (the font size is set in 'points' and the relationship between 'points' and 'pixels' depends on the DPI).  This code does both:

      MODE 7
      @vdu%!220 = -20 : REM Force character height to 20 pixels
      *FONT Bedstead
      @vdu%!216 = 16  : REM Force character width to 16 pixels

      PRINT ''''''

      FOR A=32 TO 126:VDU A:NEXT A:PRINT
      FOR A=0 TO 24:PRINT TAB(A,A);CHR$(129+(A MOD 7));"line ";A;CHR$135;:NEXT A

Richard.


Re: Testers wanted

Paul Marshall
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 01:45 am, Richard Russell wrote:
Most commonly this is 'long press' (press and hold).
This is a bit more challenging but that is all part of the fun - I have some controls which are decremented by a left-click and incremented by a right-click so I intend to make it work by dragging up & down. Other than that it was all quite straightforward!

Re: Testers wanted

Paul Marshall
 

Brilliant!  Confirmed it downloads, installs and opens on my Android tablet in seconds with minimal effort. The icon looks good too.
This is a major step forward, thanks Richard.

>  I had to get rid of the dots
I never did understand why they were there.

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:53 pm, Storer, Darren wrote:
Please could I have a static HTML export of the BB4W wiki?
I don't think it makes sense to do anything yet.  The wiki doesn't close down until September and before then new articles may be added or existing articles edited.  Nor do I want people to keep 'private' copies that cannot be edited or added to; the whole point of a wiki is that it is a shared, user-editable resource (this has been discussed here before, I think).

So rather than panic, which there is no reason to yet, can we please put our efforts into trying to find a new home for the wiki.

Richard.

The Learning Process

maurice
 

To assist me in my elementary study of BBC4 I am writing a self help programme which enables me to select all that I understand about a particular keyword or process. Whenever I wish to print  Vertical Text such as the colour table I use the following code.
IF N =4 THEN PRINT " 1   RED " ' " 2   GREEN" ' " 3   YELLOW" ' " 4   BLUE" ' " 5   MAGENTA" ' " 6   CYAN" ' " 7   WHITE"
which works , but is quite tedious for the more involved lines.
I cannot find a way to print several lines of Text with one PRINT. 

Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 01:13 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
I never did understand why they were there.
I explained it at the time.  It's a standard feature of Linux (and most derived operating systems) that a file or directory name starting with a dot is 'hidden'; it's  equivalent to the 'hidden' file attribute in Windows.  If you don't want the user to see a file or directory, because it might be distracting or suggest that he can select or interact with it when he can't, it's a very useful feature.  In the specific case of BBCSDL it ensures that the 'touchide' menus are not cluttered with resource directory names that are of no relevance to the user and might cause confusion.  It's very important, in my opinion.

Richard.

Re: The Learning Process

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 01:25 am, <maurice22@...> wrote:
but is quite tedious for the more involved lines.
There are various alternatives, although whether you consider any of them to be less "tedious" is another matter.  Here's one which uses BBC BASIC's array capabilities to advantage:

      DIM colour$(7)
      colour$() = " 0 BLACK"," 1 RED"," 2 GREEN"," 3 YELLOW"," 4 BLUE"," 5 MAGENTA"," 6 CYAN"," 7 WHITE"
      colour$() += CHR$(13) + CHR$(10)
      PRINT SUM(colour$())

Obviously you could initialise the array from DATA statements or a file rather than with explicit strings as above.  You could also use a single string variable rather than an array if you prefer.  There's no right or wrong way, it's just a case of what appeals to your own sense of neatness.

Richard.

Re: Bedstead font

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:47 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I've been trying in vain to run MODE 7 routines (mostly PC platform but later to run on Android) in full screen. 
Try this, at least as a basis for experimentation (BBCSDL only):

      MODE 7
      SYS "SDL_SetWindowFullscreen", @hwnd%, &1001
      VDU 26
      IF POS REM SDL thread sync
      @zoom% = &8000 * @vdu%!212 / 500
      @panx% = 320 - 250 * @vdu%!208 / @vdu%!212
      PRINT CHR$131 "This is a MODE 7 full height display."
      PRINT CHR$134 "In Windows press Alt-F4 to terminate."
      FOR row% = 2 TO 24
        PRINT TAB(0,row%) CHR$133 "Row ";row%;
      NEXT
      REPEAT
        WAIT 1
      UNTIL FALSE

Richard.

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

J.G.Harston
 

I've been planning on moving my Whitby Wiki[1] onto my own server to have more control over the layout and get rid of the adverts. To remind myself of the process I've done a test setup of a BBC BASIC Wiki: http://bbwiki.mdfs.net

The markup syntax is different, but I wrote some code some time ago that does the bulk of translation, leaving about 10% needing manual assistance. If this is acceptable I can do a bulk export and transfer everything from WikiSpaces and do the manual massaging.

As long as every five years I remember to renew the domain subscriptions and I keep paying my electricity bills there's nothing else that needs doing.

[1] http://whitby.wikia.com/wiki/Whitby_Wiki

--
J.G.Harston - jgh@... - mdfs.net/jgh

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 07:07 am, J.G.Harston wrote:
If this is acceptable I can do a bulk export
I am sure you understand, but in no circumstances would I consider it acceptable for the wiki to be hosted on a private server such as yours, sorry. I would also like to remind everybody that contributors to the wiki retain Intellectual Property Rights to the material they submit; the content is not 'copyright free'.   Strictly speaking that probably prevents me moving the wiki to another host without getting the permission of every contributor, but I hope that in practice common sense would apply and that nobody would raise any objections.

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

Robin Hodson
 

In case it helps, out of curiosity I tried FOD.apk
on my HTC m7 One, Android v5.0.2.

The title graphics come up, then there's a pause of
a few seconds, then it stops with String too long.

The onscreen keyboard pops up and I can type.

Back triggers Escape, *fx0 does nothing but *help gives
BBC BASIC for Android version 0.20a.

ERL is 0
LIST produces Mistake


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Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:37 am, Robin Hodson wrote:
The title graphics come up, then there's a pause of
a few seconds, then it stops with String too long.
That's very surprising; it's hard to understand how it could work on most devices but not on yours.  Just so I understand exactly what you are seeing, when you say "title graphics" do you mean it gets as far as the menu screen (the one that has the checkboxes for Demo mode and SoundFX etc.) and then fails when you tap to run the game?  If not, it would be helpful if you could be more precise. 

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

Robin Hodson
 

On 13/2/2018 1910, Richard Russell wrote:
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:37 am, Robin Hodson wrote:

The title graphics come up, then there's a pause of
a few seconds, then it stops with String too long.

That's very surprising; it's hard to understand how it could work on
most devices but not on yours.  Just so I understand exactly what you
are seeing, when you say "title graphics" do you mean it gets as far as
the menu screen (the one that has the checkboxes for Demo mode and
SoundFX etc.) and then fails when you tap to run the game?  If not, it
would be helpful if you could be more precise.
I attach a screenshot.


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Re: Testers wanted

Robin Hodson
 

On 13/2/2018 1910, Richard Russell wrote:
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:37 am, Robin Hodson wrote:

The title graphics come up, then there's a pause of
a few seconds, then it stops with String too long.

That's very surprising; it's hard to understand how it could work on
most devices but not on yours.  Just so I understand exactly what you
are seeing, when you say "title graphics" do you mean it gets as far as
the menu screen (the one that has the checkboxes for Demo mode and
SoundFX etc.) and then fails when you tap to run the game?  If not, it
would be helpful if you could be more precise.
Apparently I can't attach a screenshot directly, so here's an
online file (after much ftp fumbling) :

http://chipshed.org/halfsize.jpg


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Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:46 am, Robin Hodson wrote:
Apparently I can't attach a screenshot directly, so here's an
online file (after much ftp fumbling) :
That's the splash screen!  So it would suggest it isn't even getting as far as running the program itself.  I don't know how much diagnostics you are prepared to engage in, but extra information that would be helpful would be the values of PAGE, LOMEM, END and HIMEM:

      PRINT PAGE'LOMEM'END'HIMEM

Richard.