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locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 02:49 pm, wilsr747 wrote:
Paul: I do agree. I'm not saying I like it, but we have to face facts.
What "facts"?  Neither you nor Paul has produced any facts, just opinions (to which you are entitled, but that's all they are).  On the other hand I have produced facts: that BBC BASIC is taught in schools today, that BBC BASIC has been compared favourably with Python for teaching programming, that commercial applications are still being developed in BBC BASIC.  Why don't you face those facts and accept that BBC BASIC does indeed have a relevance today?  Not a huge one - nobody is suggesting that - but one which justifies its continued development and promotion, and is a cause for some optimism.

BBC BASIC for Windows is a tour de force but sadly I don't see the user base increasing much.
I don't suppose it will, indeed not surprisingly it is falling, but BBC BASIC for Windows is not the product that is currently under development!   That is BBCSDL, which supports new platforms and new capabilities (notably being integrated with a high-performance 2D games engine) and opens up new possibilities.  It has been demonstrated that it is capable of creating apps (e.g. for Android) that can compete with those made using more 'modern' techniques.  Would you deny people that opportunity?

Richard.

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 03:31 pm, John Alfred wrote:
could a BASIC Interpreter be developed to run on smart phones and tablets?
You're joking, right?  Especially considering that you're replying to a thread about creating a splash screen for the Android edition of BBC BASIC.....

Richard.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 03:15 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
the Android on-screen keyboard also appears and it is not possible to get rid of it
Although this is apparently a bug in the TV's version of Android (I've confirmed that my phone suppresses the OSK when an external keyboard is connected) one workaround would be to choose a key that is otherwise unused by touchide.bbc (if there is one) and arrange for it to call the SDL_StopTextInput API.  You could then press that key to remove the on-screen keyboard as and when required.

Richard.

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

John Alfred
 

Dead serious I'm afraid.

The other replies have gone off-topic. Would you like me to create a new one? (I don't know how)

Cheers !

John



From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Monday, 5 February 2018, 1:04
Subject: Re: [bb4w] Splash Screen Poll

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 03:31 pm, John Alfred wrote:
could a BASIC Interpreter be developed to run on smart phones and tablets?
You're joking, right?  Especially considering that you're replying to a thread about creating a splash screen for the Android edition of BBC BASIC.....

Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Paul Marshall
 

I am aware it should scroll right as one continues to type and I can position the caret with the mouse and type and it does indeed scroll when the right hand side is reached. But the cursor keys do not move the caret. They behave the same as the control pad on the remote control. Hence the cursor keys change the selected character on the on-screen keyboard. Most odd!    Other keys like tab, BS, return behave as they should for a keyboard and not as per the remote.   The cursor keys generate codes 136-139 according to about.bbc. 

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 01:53 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
Hence the cursor keys change the selected character on the on-screen keyboard.
Oh, I see.  That's presumably a side-effect of the OSK continuing to be displayed when it shouldn't be.   If you're happy to try modifying touchide.bbc itself, first make a copy (any changes you make to the distributed touchide will be wiped every time you restart BBC BASIC) and add some code that will do a SYS "SDL_StopTextInput" on receipt of a specific keycode that you can generate from the keyboard (e.g. a function key).  That should allow you to close the OSK on demand.

Hopefully once the OSK is no longer displayed the cursor keys will resume their normal function.   If that works I will incorporate the mod in the distributed version.

Richard.

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

Paul Marshall
 

Richard 
Sorry to appear so negative. I am pleased it is still taught in schools - how would I know but none of the small number of children I know have any interest in computing - and I am not surprised at all that there are still niche markets for professional software.  I am excited about the future of BBC Basic on the Android platform and RPI  (I'm not a Apple or Linux user) Thats why I spend time on my tablet, amazon Fire and now my Android TV. Being able to play from the comfort of my armchair appeals!  I am however trying to promote a debate on how we can make it appeal to the younger person. Ceefax, Mode 7 demos etc might excite us oldies but mean nothing to the younger generation. David Williams FOD is exactly what we need but sadly is a bit big to bundle. Therefore we could do with a  more efficient way to download programs to the device and have them appear in the programs list. It was to be honest a bit of a pain to install FOD on the TV.  Having done so yes it was a bit sluggish but still playable and a brilliant demo of the capabilities nonetheless. 

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 03:59 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
none of the small number of children I know have any interest in computing
You mean 'programming' I assume: the 'smartphone generation' can hardly survive without "computing"!  Not everybody is going to be interested in programming, any more than they are going to retain a specific interest in any other subject they are taught at school.  But some will, and Python is probably the language they will have learned; there really isn't that much difference between Python and (modern) BBC BASIC.

Ceefax, Mode 7 demos etc might excite us oldies but mean nothing to the younger generation.
I don't disagree, but demo programs need to appeal to a wide range of ages and interests. It would not, in my opinion, be sensible to target one specific demographic (e.g. the "younger generation") in the selection of demo programs.  And to respond to an earlier comment I do actually choose to read the news via the CEEFAX program because I find it easier to digest without all the distracting adverts and images.

David Williams FOD is exactly what we need but sadly is a bit big to bundle
His Dropperz game is bundled with BBC BASIC and there may be others small enough to include if he will grant permission.

It was to be honest a bit of a pain to install FOD on the TV
I can't speak for your TV but it's pretty straightforward to get it onto a phone or tablet.  First, download the ZIP file (e.g. FODSDL.zip) onto your PC and extract the contents into their own folder (that is usually the default extract action).  Now connect the PC to your Android device using a USB lead - generally the supplied charging lead is suitable.  Finally, move the FODSDL folder into BBC BASIC's @usr$ directory using cut-and-paste or drag-and-drop in Windows File Explorer.  Disconnect the USB lead and the job's done!

If you want to do it 'wirelessly', without needing a PC, you can do the same thing on the Android device itself with the help of an app like ES File Explorer to extract the ZIP.

Richard.

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

Chris Shipman
 

I would certainly not support the view that programming is now only relevant to 'a technically minded few'. In a world where the Arduino platform has transformed hobby electronics beyond recognition, it's clear that there is a huge potential user base, provided that there is a clear incentive / purpose in programming.

As for whether there is a place for BASIC, the popularity of MS Office VBA seems to suggest that there's life in the old language yet. BBC BASIC remains extraordinarily versatile and powerful. It can't be impossible to gain widespread interest in BBC SDL, though I'm not saying that it's easy.

I think that the 'killer app' concept is the right one, with the additional thought that the key might be a real world application  (in the sense of 'purpose') rather than just a striking piece of software.

I for one would hate to see such an excellent development of such a fine language to fade away due to lack of interest. 

Chris Shipman. 

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Paul Marshall
 

thanks i will try that.  Is there a mod i can do to make the display 80 columns? I've looked at touchide.bbc but not managed to figure it out.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 08:41 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
Is there a mod i can do to make the display 80 columns?
It's not set to any specific initial number of columns; it will depend on the display resolution.  If yours is working out at 40 columns it's a fluke, not by design.  On a touch screen you can use the standard 'pinch' zoom gesture to change the font size (it is 'touchide' after all).  There's no keyboard control - indeed there isn't in BB4W either - but no doubt that could be added if a suitable combination of keys can be found.

Richard.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Paul Marshall
 

I'm looking at the possibility of zooming with f1 and f2 in place of pinching or  to add a zoom % option to the long-press menu. 

I could not get  SDL_StopTextInput to work at removing the onscreen keyboard. I have found though that by switching from 'leanback' to 'Multilingual'  onscreen keyboard it works as it should. 

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 03:50 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
I'm looking at the possibility of zooming with f1 and f2 in place of pinching or  to add a zoom % option to the long-press menu. 
I would prefer the former; adding an item to the 'touch' menu which isn't needed when using touch control isn't desirable.

The function key approach is easier to implement too.  To use f2 and f3 (f1 is currently reserved as 'return to menu' if you get stuck in immediate mode) is as simple as adding this code to both of the key-code CASE statements:

          WHEN 146: Zoom% -= 1001
          WHEN 147: Zoom% += 1001

I'll modify my master version accordingly.

Richard.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 04:15 am, Richard Russell wrote:
To use f2 and f3 (f1 is currently reserved as 'return to menu'
Or would you rather use f2 and f4 to keep f3 available for potential future use as 'Find Next'?

Richard.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Paul Marshall
 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 04:35 am, Richard Russell wrote:
keep f3 available for potential future use as 'Find Next'?
Definitely!  f2 and f4 dont sit well so maybe f4 & f5. 

Ideally I would like to be able to set a default font size. My quick workaround is :
        IF (@platform% AND &FF) = 3 THEN
          GUIFont$ = FNgetINIstring(CFGfile$, "guifont", "FreeSans,48")
          EditFont$ = FNgetINIstring(CFGfile$, "editfont", "FreeMono,48")
to change 48 to 24 then the font size is a comfortable 80 (a guess)  columns.

I had failed so far because i was changing Zoom% by 1 or -1. Will try again.
 

locked Re: Splash Screen Poll #poll

maurice
 

In the 1980's I was introduced to GW Basic ,courtesy of Alan Sugar and his student's notepad. It became a valuable tool in pursuit of my hobby of Amateur Radio. Formulas that were in constant use were quickly coded and saved. The notepad stayed off while practical work proceeded and starting from switching it on any value could be formulated in seconds. I voiced the opinion on Facebook that this simple device and its use of the BASIC language was, and still is superior and faster (from "off") in every way to modern devices and spreadsheets.  I am delighted to be acquainted with the language once again and am making good use of it. Many young people think that coding is out of their league, they are wrong.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 05:59 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
Definitely!  f2 and f4 dont sit well so maybe f4 & f5. 
The trouble with that idea is that if you want to reserve f3 for 'Find Next' why wouldn't you want to reserve f5 for 'Step Line' and f6 for 'Run to Cursor' and the rest?  The only 'spare' function keys - i.e. not already allocated to functions in BB4W and the desktop versions of BBCSDL - are f2, f4, f11 and f12 (and f11, f12 are mirrored by Shift+Tab and Ctrl+Home).

Perhaps you might want to consider f2 for zoom out and Shift+f2 for zoom in, or some similar combination that only 'uses up' one function key.

Ideally I would like to be able to set a default font size.
Why, given that the size is remembered?  Once you've set it to your preferred zoom it will, of course, start the same way every time.

Richard.

locked Splash Screen

DaveinSpain
 

Richard, the splash screen works on both my Android 5.1 tablet and Android 7.0 phone however, it only displays for half a second or less (once I saw it for 2-3 seconds but can't repeat this). I would suggest that it stays on until the screen is tapped. The chosen screen is too "busy" to view if less than one second. For this reason I would have chosen the Roundel. I tried to vote but somehow found that I couldn't.

Would it be possible to supply all three screens so that we can choose the one we want?

Well done, Richard, on a remarkable product.

Dave N

On Feb 3, 2018 01:27, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
Looks like we have a clear favourite; here are the aggregated votes from the forum and the group:

Rocket: 5
Roundel: 7
Slate: 13

So congratulations to Paul Marshall (author of Dibley) who submitted the Slate design.

I admit it's probably not the choice I would have made (I didn't vote) because green text on a black background reminds me too much of old VDUs from the pre-BBC Micro era - not exactly the impression of a 21st Century product I might have preferred!

But what do I know? I will go along with the 'will of the majority' as seems to be the trend these days - at least it's not an irreversible decision that will have an adverse effect lasting for decades..... grin

Richard.

locked Re: Splash Screen

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 06:13 am, daveinspain101 wrote:
Richard, the splash screen works on both my Android 5.1 tablet and Android 7.0 phone however, it only displays for half a second or less (once I saw it for 2-3 seconds but can't repeat this).
It should always (and in my tests does) display for at least one second.

I would suggest that it stays on until the screen is tapped.
I have tried dozens of Android apps to see how their splash screens behave and NOT A SINGLE ONE works that way.  The purpose of the splash screen is twofold: firstly to identify the app and its version number and secondly to display something whilst it is initialising.  For the first, a display period of one second is plenty, which is why that is set as the minimum.  For the second, it displays at least until initialisation is complete if longer.

The chosen screen is too "busy" to view if less than one second.
You are not expected to "view" the screen; it is not a work of art!

For my liking, displaying the splash screen for a whole second is too long.  I have got used to BBC BASIC starting 'instantly' on my very fast phone, and having to wait for the splash screen to disappear annoys me.   But I recognise that most people's devices are slower than mine and probably take at least a second to start up anyway, and some kind of 'title' screen will be a requirement if it is ever to qualify for the App Store.

Would it be possible to supply all three screens so that we can choose the one we want?
Technically possible?  Of course.  Something I would consider?  Not a chance!

Richard.

Re: BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 v0.20a released

 

On Tue, 6 Feb 2018, at 14:09, Richard Russell wrote:
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 05:59 am, Paul Marshall wrote:


Definitely!  f2 and f4 dont sit well so maybe f4 & f5. 
The trouble with that idea is that if you want to reserve f3 for 'Find
Next' why wouldn't you want to reserve f5 for 'Step Line' and f6 for
'Run to Cursor' and the rest?  The only 'spare' function keys - i.e. not
already allocated to functions in BB4W and the desktop versions of
BBCSDL - are f2, f4, f11 and f12 (and f11, f12 are mirrored by Shift+Tab
and Ctrl+Home).

Perhaps you might want to consider f2 for zoom out and Shift+f2 for zoom
in, or some similar combination that only 'uses up' one function key.
I've used systems in the past where one F-key acted as a sort of toggle, and
each time you pressed it the definitions on a range of other F-keys were
changed from, say, set 2, to set 3. Shift- might decrement the set number.

I tended then to organise sets of key definitions around types of activity.

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.