Date   

Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Huw Davies <dhuwdavies@...>
 

I think that if anyone has the right to make an executive decision - you
have. Go for it!
Huw Davies

On 3 March 2016 at 11:44, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] <bb4w@yahoogroups.com
wrote:


---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <ejacobs99@yahoo.com> wrote :
You've already considered this, I'm sure, but I'll go through the "open
door" anyway:
is there any streamlining of all this information in the pipeline ?
It would improve user participation and group dynamics (to use a few big
words)



I couldn't agree more! It makes no sense to distribute the membership
across such a range of different groups and forums (it wouldn't even if
there were many more active members, but with the few we currently have
it's crazy - or to put it in your more polite language it damages 'group
dynamics').


But what to do? My preference is for everything to be concentrated at
Conforums, which is far better suited to posting code and organising
threads into different categories. But there are several people who claim
that only a mailing-list (where they are alerted to posts by messages
arriving in their email inbox) is acceptable. I totally disagree: I have a
desktop shortcut which opens all the Conforums boards that I regularly
monitor, and I run it daily (it could be automated as a Windows scheduled
event). I actually find this more satisfactory than receiving emails
whenever a post is made.


Then there is the issue of the strengths and weaknesses of the various
mailing-list solutions. Yahoo is (I'm told, as I don't use it that way)
perfectly acceptable if accessed only by email, but the web interface is a
disaster and causes me constant frustration. Wiggio on the other hand has a
good web interface but the mailing-list aspect is apparently not properly
implemented (the message headers don't support threading, or something like
that). Then we have Groups.IO which I know little about, but I think
worries people because of its lack of 'pedigree'. As for Google Groups - I
have no idea!


I must say I am sorely tempted to put my foot down and impose a solution -
which would almost certainly be to close down all the groups (under my
control) except Conforums. That would create a real stink, and those people
who enjoy abusing me would have a field day. But it might be worth it! :)


Richard.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <ejacobs99@yahoo.com> wrote :
> You've already considered this, I'm sure, but I'll go through the "open door" anyway:
> is there any streamlining of all this information in the pipeline ?
> It would improve user participation and group dynamics (to use a few big words)



I couldn't agree more! It makes no sense to distribute the membership across such a range of different groups and forums (it wouldn't even if there were many more active members, but with the few we currently have it's crazy - or to put it in your more polite language it damages 'group dynamics').


But what to do? My preference is for everything to be concentrated at Conforums, which is far better suited to posting code and organising threads into different categories. But there are several people who claim that only a mailing-list (where they are alerted to posts by messages arriving in their email inbox) is acceptable. I totally disagree: I have a desktop shortcut which opens all the Conforums boards that I regularly monitor, and I run it daily (it could be automated as a Windows scheduled event). I actually find this more satisfactory than receiving emails whenever a post is made.


Then there is the issue of the strengths and weaknesses of the various mailing-list solutions. Yahoo is (I'm told, as I don't use it that way) perfectly acceptable if accessed only by email, but the web interface is a disaster and causes me constant frustration. Wiggio on the other hand has a good web interface but the mailing-list aspect is apparently not properly implemented (the message headers don't support threading, or something like that). Then we have Groups.IO which I know little about, but I think worries people because of its lack of 'pedigree'. As for Google Groups - I have no idea!


I must say I am sorely tempted to put my foot down and impose a solution - which would almost certainly be to close down all the groups (under my control) except Conforums. That would create a real stink, and those people who enjoy abusing me would have a field day. But it might be worth it! :)


Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

 

Richard,
thanks for the clarification.And also for your spontaneous recap of the different BB4W groups and forums. I've updated my bookmarks accordingly..

But now I'm spoiled for choice. Which one to consult ? This makes me a little uncertain. I don't want to miss out on any announcements, upgrades, ...
You've already considered this, I'm sure, but I'll go through the "open door" anyway: is there any streamlining of all this information in the pipeline ?

It would improve user participation and group dynamics (to use a few big words)

kind regards, Edja


From: "yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com>
To: bb4w@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 8:33 PM
Subject: [bb4w] Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

  ---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <ejacobs99@yahoo.com> wrote :
> Where can download v6.01a ?


You can't. It was downloadable for some time after I announced its availability, but isn't any longer. It has since been superseded by other 'development' versions (a few other changes have been made in the meantime) and - as an unreleased experimental version - it hasn't been archived and isn't supported.


I'm sorry if you missed the original announcements. There was - and still is - a problem with there being too many different groups and forums dedicated to BBC BASIC, with the result that I don't always announce things on them all. At the last count we have (at least):


Conforums - http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/ http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/
Wiggio - https://wiggio.com/group_open_join.php?groupid=1911366&;password=bbcbasic&ref=1913180 https://wiggio.com/group_open_join.php?groupid=1911366&;password=bbcbasic&ref=1913180
Groups.IO - https://groups.io/g/bb4w https://groups.io/g/bb4w
Google - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bb4w https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bb4w
Yahoo! - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bb4w https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bb4w


The result is that the relatively few active members are distributed too thinly between these forums, and as has been evident recently this isn't conducive to active conversations (one reply tends not to be seen by members of the other groups). Unfortunately corralling BBC BASIC enthusiasts in one forum is about as difficult as herding cats!


Richard.


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Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <g3nrw-radio@ntlworld.com> wrote :
> Has *anyone* here seen any mention of v6.01a for download prior to
> today? I subscribe to all the groups Richard mentioned, and I can't
> see download v6.01a mentioned *anywhere*


Well, I was hardly likely to advertise it on a public forum! As an experimental, largely untested, version - created in just a few hours and with no installer - it was only ever intended for a limited audience. I can't remember exactly how I made its existence known, but probably I either invited interested parties to send me a private email or I pro-actively contacted members of the closed 'BB4W developers' group (or both). Quite a few people did download it.


> .... sigh.


Perhaps you might like to explain that. Are you suggesting that v6.01a is a figment of my imagination?


Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

Since a number of people have asked, can I clarify that version 6.01a is no longer available for download. Indeed it no longer exists (apart perhaps in the keeping of one or more of those who originally downloaded it) because I only archive released versions. All I ever made available, temporarily, was a ZIP file containing bbcwin6.exe and bbcwrun6.exe, which were largely untested and therefore unsuitable for widespread adoption.

The reason for today's post was to establish whether there is a demand from users for a formally-released version with the GET$# bug fixed. It seems that there is, although I suspect anybody who knew that they were vulnerable to the bug either downloaded v6.01a at the time or worked around it another way (e.g. by reading the file in chunks of 65,535 bytes or less).

Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

Since a number of people have asked, can I clarify that version 6.01a is no longer available for download. Indeed it no longer exists (apart perhaps in the keeping of one or more of those who originally downloaded it) because I only archive released versions. All I ever made available, temporarily, was a ZIP file containing bbcwin6.exe and bbcwrun6.exe, which were largely untested and therefore unsuitable for widespread adoption.

The reason for today's post was to establish whether there is a demand from users for a formally-released version with the GET$# bug fixed. It seems that there is, although I suspect anybody who knew that they were vulnerable to the bug either downloaded v6.01a at the time or worked around it another way (e.g. by reading the file in chunks of 65,535 bytes or less).

Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Ian_Wade_G3NRW
 

I had to browse through past messages to discover what Richard has said about the GET$# function bug. All I can find is the following:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2 Sep 2015 15:00
Please be aware that there is quite a serious bug in the GET$#file function, which can cause the returned string to be corrupted if it is longer than 65535 characters (specifically, the first four characters may be overwritten). The conditions under which this occurs are quite obscure and difficult to predict, although repeatable. If you need to be absolutely certain of the integrity of the data, read it in chunks of 65535 bytes or fewer.

There is code present specifically to prevent this problem - but owing to a 'stupidity' it is ineffective. :-(

Richard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Has *anyone* here seen any mention of v6.01a for download prior to today? I subscribe to all the groups Richard mentioned, and I can't see download v6.01a mentioned *anywhere* .... sigh.

--
ian

On 02/03/2016 17:12, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] wrote:

I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

hans@...
 

I didn't know about the 6.01a version, but it would be nice to be able to keep getting the latest version available for BBC basic because I do enjoy using the language a lot.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

R NBW
 

Like Eddie Jacobs, I have no need of a major upgrade, but I wasn't aware of the 6.00a1 amendment. Where can I download it?

Sent from my iPad

On 2 Mar 2016, at 5:12 pm, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] <bb4w@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <ejacobs99@yahoo.com> wrote :
> Where can download v6.01a ?


You can't. It was downloadable for some time after I announced its availability, but isn't any longer. It has since been superseded by other 'development' versions (a few other changes have been made in the meantime) and - as an unreleased experimental version - it hasn't been archived and isn't supported.


I'm sorry if you missed the original announcements. There was - and still is - a problem with there being too many different groups and forums dedicated to BBC BASIC, with the result that I don't always announce things on them all. At the last count we have (at least):


Conforums - http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/ http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/
Wiggio - https://wiggio.com/group_open_join.php?groupid=1911366&;password=bbcbasic&ref=1913180 https://wiggio.com/group_open_join.php?groupid=1911366&;password=bbcbasic&ref=1913180
Groups.IO - https://groups.io/g/bb4w https://groups.io/g/bb4w
Google - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bb4w https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bb4w
Yahoo! - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bb4w https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bb4w


The result is that the relatively few active members are distributed too thinly between these forums, and as has been evident recently this isn't conducive to active conversations (one reply tends not to be seen by members of the other groups). Unfortunately corralling BBC BASIC enthusiasts in one forum is about as difficult as herding cats!


Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <chessadare@yahoo.co.uk> wrote :
> A minor bug if people haven't come across it much.


I wouldn't say that exactly. The seriousness of a bug is more related to its potential impact than on the likelihood of it being encountered, and 'silently' corrupting data read from a file (which might then corrupt the file if it is written back) is about as bad as it gets! :(


> I realise you'd have to run it on a different Micro, but I'm sure it would
> be an interesting project with a good pay-off.


As you will appreciate, I am personally unable to create a version of BBC BASIC which would run on ARM-based mobile devices (I am far too old and set in my ways to attempt to learn ARM assembler programming - not to say thoroughly prejudiced against that CPU family!). However what I have tried to do is enthuse somebody who does have the necessary skills, by explaining how straightforward I found porting the x86 version to Android. However whilst his initial reaction was positive, I have heard nothing from him since.


That has basically been the problem with the ARM version all along. Whereas I maintained enough interest in the 'Intel' branch of BBC BASIC (Z80 / 8086 / IA-32) to continue development - if only intermittently - to the present day, interest in the ARM version by 'professional' software developers waned in the 1990s and I don't think anybody has worked on it to a significant degree since.


Even today, the version of ARM BBC BASIC you get on (say) a Raspberry Pi running RISC OS is pretty much identical to that which came with the Acorn Archimedes in the 1980s. It may be that since I never learned to program in a more advanced language I have retained a desire to keep BBC BASIC up to date, but the ARM boys (and girls) have I think all moved on to Java or Python or C# or something.


Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

 

If "testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking" AND the availibility of a "fixed version", such as v6.01a, is clearly advertised somewhere then I have no need for a formal release of the fixed version.
I admit I have missed the announcement of the v6.01a availibility.
Where can download v6.01a ?I've looked on the BB4W conforum, on the Wiki and the BB4W home site.
regards,

Edja

From: "yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com>
To: bb4w@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 6:12 PM
Subject: [bb4w] BBC BASIC upgrade?

  I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: BBC BASIC upgrade?

John Alfred
 

A minor bug if people haven't come across it much.
On a different note, I think if you continued with the smart phone applications, it could be a huge market.
I have some contact with children involved with IT and smart phones, and most dream of writing an App for the iPhone/Samsung and making some money ! BASIC is one of the easiest programming languages to learn, and if there was a path to running programs on Smart Phones, I think you'd be on to a winner.

I realise you'd have to run it on a different Micro, but I'm sure it would be an interesting project with a good pay-off.
Keep up the good work
John

From: "yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com>
To: bb4w@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016, 17:12
Subject: [bb4w] BBC BASIC upgrade?

  I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.


BBC BASIC upgrade?

Richard Russell
 

I find myself - not for the first time! - in a dilemma. As you know, BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.00a has a major bug which can corrupt the data read from a file using the GET$# function. This bug was discovered several months ago and because of its seriousness I immediately made available a fixed version (v6.01a) which I know many people downloaded at the time.

However I have never formally released that version, which means that anybody purchasing BB4W (whether by download or on CD-ROM) still receives the buggy v6.00a. Obviously this isn't a very satisfactory situation, but testing and releasing a new version is a major administrative undertaking which is hard to justify given the small - and diminishing - user base.

So I would be interested to know whether there is a demand for an updated version to be formally released. If there is I will set the appropriate processes in motion (one of which will be to obtain a new Code Signing Certificate, since my existing one expires on Sunday).

Richard.


File - reminder.txt

bb4w@...
 

(This message is posted automatically once a month)

If you are currently receiving emails from the group but would
prefer not to, you can change your email delivery settings. To
do that click on 'Edit Membership' above (if you are reading this
on the group's web page) or connect to the internet and click on
this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bb4w/join

Scroll down to the section entitled Message Delivery and you will
see four radio-button options:

o Individual Email
o Daily Digest
o Special Notices
o Web Only

Select 'Special Notices' or 'Web Only', then confirm by clicking
Save Changes, and you won't be troubled by group emails (if you
select Special Notices you will still receive important messages
such as announcements of new versions of BBC BASIC for Windows).

Richard.


Re: Code Signing Certificates

Richard Russell
 

Please note that my Code Signing Certificate expires on 6th March 2016!


Richard.


Re: Code Signing Certificates

Richard Russell
 

Please note that my Code Signing Certificate expires on 6th March 2016!

Richard.



Re: WinAPI: Resize a dialog box?

Richard Russell
 

I don't understand how allowing the user to re-size a dialogue box would be helpful. A dialogue box has just one purpose - it is a container for child controls. If the user were to make it smaller, controls which are near the edge could be partially cropped or become completely inaccessible. Conversely if the user were to make it bigger it would reveal non-clickable background which has no purpose other than to waste screen real-estate.


When a dialogue box is designed (e.g. using DLGEDIT) great care is generally taken to ensure that the layout of the controls is optimised. For example I would usually want the border between the controls and the edge of the box to be uniform all the way around, so that it looks nicely balanced. I don't want the user to be able to spoil my carefully designed layout!


There are a few standard dialogue boxes which deliberately change their own size, in order to hide or reveal some controls. For example the Choose Color dialogue box contains a button 'Define Custom Color' which enlarges the box to reveal 'advanced' colour adjustment controls. But it will only switch between two precisely set sizes, so that in each case the carefully designed layout is maintained.


So the bottom line is that dialogue boxes are fixed in size for a good reason.


Richard.


WinAPI: Resize a dialog box?

Ian_Wade_G3NRW
 

WinAPI: Resize a dialog box?

I have created a new dialog box, thus:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dlg%=FN_newdialog(winTitleBar$, 0, 0, 450, 200, 10, 6000)
dlg%!16 = (dlg%!16 OR WS_CHILD) AND NOT &80400000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No problem here, except the box is fixed in size.

What extra/different code or parameters do I need to allow the user to mouse-drag the box to a different size? I assume the details are somewhere in "http://www.cix.co.uk/~rrussell/bbcwin/manual/index.html";, but so far they have escaped me.

--
73
Ian, G3NRW

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